Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Roald Dahl's books edited to be more 'inclusive'

Options
1234689

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Did you even read the article or notice the books cover? No need for hope just … read (ironic in a thread about books)

    Julia, a 1984 Novel, is not being packaged and sold as 1984 by George Orwell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Bleeping IS censorship, the job title iirc is Censor. But this is not bleeping, the Dahl books are full of edits not bleeps. Guests who swear on a talk show aren’t dubbed over with things completely different to what they said. If the producers of Snakes on a Plane have Samuel L Jackson Re-dub his own line as “Monday to Friday plane” etc for television that’s not really the same as what’s occurred here, the producer of the novels is dead and have no artistic input to the edited version.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Whoever abridged it should credit themselves with the editing.

    Team Four Star got into massive trouble with Toei Animation for abridging Dragonball Z for YouTube.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    What people are ticked off about is that the changes are so ridiculous.

    The words fat and ugly have been removed from all his books.

    That is patently ridiculous.

    If people are genuinely upset (and to be honest I suspect only very tiny percentage of people are) by the words fat and ugly then there is nothing you can do to help people like that.

    It's the idea the publishers are putting out that we'll decide what is offensive for you, well decide what words are and are not acceptable. That bothers people, it's a form of policing language.

    You remove the word you remove the idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    He is dead, he left it to his family, it was theirs, they publicly traded it and now it is Netflix's.

    He or they could have put it into a 1000 year Trust.

    They didn't they took half a billion and a cut from future projects.

    His Grandson will produce apparently.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,884 ✭✭✭amacca


    That change makes a total prick of that part of the story....I'd nearly have the "editor" taken out and shot for that change alone....





  • they’re not telling you what you should read or hear they are making edits to the book so it sells better.

    Do you really think puffin have seen sales increase and decided they need to make these changes or would you reckon they saw a decline in sales leading to these edits?

    Is Puffin suddenly clueless? I doubt it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Yes. Also "formidable female" is alliteration. Tin-eared changes for the most part.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Do you really think many people will be offended and not buy a book because the word Fat is in it?

    I doubt there are any, you don't pre-inspect a book for words you don't like before you buy it.

    The only way they will increase sales with this is by people buying the old un-tampered versions so if that was their aim I guess it has worked but please stop the nonsense of thinking this will increase sales , it won't.

    Also a large publishing company thinking the word Fat should not be used is quite scary, publishers have a large degree of control over what ideas are are available for public consumption.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,409 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I have been reading Roald Dahl to my children from well before they were able to read those books themselves.

    I was referring to Rudyard Kiplings 'Just So stories' which were aimed at kids from 3 years old, and some of those stories had language and concepts that are incredibly racist by todays standards, and much of the worst language was removed from modern editions decades ago, although some of the stories are still irredeemable (How the leopard got his spots)

    I got a book in the library, must have been an old edition scanned through it first and decided there was no way in hell I was gonna read that to my kids



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Kipling is still read in India. I don't know if his works are bowdlerized there, I would guess probably not.





  • You and I can only speculate on whether or not it has affected sales, puffin, however will have it on paper if it does.

    I don’t know about you but I suspect Puffin have a bit more of a clue regarding book publishing and sales than me or you. Maybe you are a publisher or work for one yourself of course but if that’s not the case then as I say Puffin is probably doing something right.

    with 82 years in the business that’s just a feeling I get. Call me crazy.





  • Independently published books are likely to contain whatever the author wants because the author is self publishing so they have the final say.

    If you are publishing through say, Puffin, whether they own the rights or not they will be the ones who have the final say always. It’s almost always going to be their reputation on the line especially when the author isn’t terribly well known but always if there’s backlash they’ll face some.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Like I said. The Author didnt approve the changes to his book.

    Well no, because he is dead, I don't think I need to labour the point that he can't approve nor does he have feelings, again he is dead.

    But you have moved the goalposts considerably haven't you?

    I wonder if Dahl's family will challenge the publisher legally for misrepresentation.

    Now you since found out the family sold the company, so yeah they approved, approved to the tune of half a billion plus future monies.

    They are very much alive.

    Alive >Dead



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Feisar


    LOL at the bible, the book with the most revisions ever.

    First they came for the socialists...







  • Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    I'm sorry, but I think that's a complete misunderstanding of the publication process, the issue here, and copyright.

    In terms of publishing a book, paper, article whatever, the author writes the work and submits it to one, but usually several, different publishers for approval. In terms of editorial changes that need to be made, suggestions for cuts or increases, or questions about ideas espoused, are made in collaboration or with the agreement of the author. Always, because the author has sole copyright. If the author doesn't like or agree with the changes that's the end and they go elsewhere. If they agree to the changes they will discuss or negotiate how it works within the text and they are made. The publisher does not have the final say, it is an agreement or compromise. Then the item is published and released to the wider world. All of this is with the agreement or approval of the author as they have sole copyright.

    The issue here is that Dahl's copyright was sold to a third party. Since he died back in 1990 any changes can not be with the agreement or collaboration with the author, and the authorial voice is weakened and diminished, especially with an author like Dahl whose work is very reliant on various linguistic quirks and tools to make it appealing. A previous poster mentioned that one of the changes is removing alliterative text. And aside from the changes to the authorial voice, the changes seem nonsensical in many places and serve no purpose. It was only last month that Anthony Horowitz wrote that he remove the word scalpel from one of his books as it might offend Native Americans due to its similarity to scalp. So that's a pretty good recent example of some of the nonsense that comes from these types of edits.

    However, Horowitz agreed to these changes so his book was published, a new book, but a book in his voice (not sure about what you would change scalpel to, but anyway). Dahl's books have been around for decades, and several generations of families would have read and enjoyed them. These are classic books. The changes being made are patently not going to be made in the style Dahl would have chosen, if he agreed to them, but they now own the copyright so they can. I'm just not sure if the type of editors that would make a stupid request of an author to remove the word scalpel would be capable of actually making this more inclusive, or whatever the aim is, in a way that's sensitive to Dahl's authorial voice.

    And if Puffin actually ran the numbers and think this will be proftable fine. They do now have the copyright. But that's a cynical business decision, not an artistic one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,829 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    What kind of people dream up this stuff? What are they trying to achieve?





  • I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here? Yes, copyright holding would mean I can’t write a book and publish it as Rold Dahl and make money from it, but it certainly does not mean Puffin can’t make editorial adjustments to books they publish as if they’d sign up for that.

    You suggest I am misunderstanding publishing but it appears you are misunderstanding copyright law.

    Take a read of this but if you cba this is the important bit:

    We all know the running joke, “publishers don’t edit books anymore,” but it makes sense when you think about it: they’re putting their name on your work, letting the public know they published your book. They put you through the rigorous process of vetting, just to see if they want to be associated with you in the first place. The publishers need to deliver their end: publishing a well-edited version of your manuscript.


    Now, granted, each publisher has their own process. Some publishers are all about authors doing major revisions. Others, not so much. It all depends on who’s publishing your book.

    it’s completely normal and the changes mentioned are irrelevant. End of story. This is outrage for the sake of outrage because people don’t understand a very normal thing that’s been happening for years.

    Guess what lads, whatever version of a Dahl book you read I guarantee you wasn’t what he wrote. Not originally. By the time it hit shelves changes were made. Maybe small maybe big but they were made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭buried


    Why do people keep bringing up the Abrahamic bible? The bible is not a work of art. It is a manifesto of political and societal control, of course its going to be changed and edited to suit what control methods its adherents desire in order to remain relevant.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Book written by author > other peoples vested financial

    Clearly not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    @[Deleted User] The exact point, right here

    By the time it hit shelves changes were made.

    That's the exact point. He made a decision to make changes to his original so it was published. Dahl agreed to that. That is how it works and those are the books people loved. Those are being changed, decades later, without the agreement of the author, for very little purpose.

    Maybe I don't fully understand the decision, but I'm a librarian, so I do have some insight into publishers, and I understand the difference between changes an author makes to a book to get it published, and changes made decades after those books have been loved by generations long after the authors death.

    I'm not sure where you think I'm misunderstanding copyright law, but a full breakdown of it is not really needed. Dahl published Charlie and the Chocolate Factory in 1972, so under the UK 1911 copyright act, which was the lifetime of the author plus 50 years, which was later extended. So the Dahl estate sold that after his death and it expires in 2060, giving the copyright to the publisher. While they have the right to change the text as they see fit, if Dahl was alive still he would have to approve these changes on top of the changes he had previously made for initial publication 50 years prior. Which I think people annoyed by this would agree, he wouldn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Well that certainly highlights one of the many problems with literary revisionism.





  • He’s dead. So that’s a moot point. It now falls to right holders.

    Besides minor revisions can be made without authors consent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    Actually no, it's not a moot point. It's the crux of the issue. Many people disagree with the changes the rights holders are making. The rights holders are making a commercial decision that interferes with literary works made decades prior. And they see it as nonsensical, cynical, and disrespectful.

    And minor revisions is a very subjective concept. Talk to anyone who has published about what "minor" revisions can actually mean. In some cases those minor revisions have been because the editor or reviewer doesn't fully understand what they're reading.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    "Jim was not just called Jim."

    Beau expresses the conflict over contemporary edits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    ll



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Great post from the librarian above that sums it up well.

    You do know certain librarians banned his book The Witches in 1983?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So the Dahl estate sold that after his death and it expires in 2060, giving the copyright to the publisher. While they have the right to change the text as they see fit, if Dahl was alive still he would have to approve these changes on top of the changes he had previously made for initial publication 50 years prior. Which I think people annoyed by this would agree, he wouldn't.

    How do you know he wouldn't?

    He willed his estate to his family, it was his family who initiated the review before Netflix bought it.

    They also made it into a commercial juggernaut.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭buried


    Because Roald Dahl was an artistic creator. He actually made art. He created stories out of nothing down his back garden shed. Just because his offspring cannot create anything of actual artistic note themselves doesn't give them the right to befoul his work or his audiences genuine interpretation of said work just because they want a greasy few pound that they can't make themselves.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



Advertisement