Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I don't really see much need for rotation when we already have so many first team players out injured

Agreed. I'd understand if the timing of the game was different but having first team players not starting for the over a month is an unnecessary risk for very little reward.

Final thoughts on the selection issues, and then I'll leave it.

The last few pages have indeed been a dumpster fire, but who are the arsonists here?

Munster fans were disappointed that one of their best players this season (and arguably one of the best players in the pool stages of the Heineken Cup) was overlooked for a Leinster player who could boast nowhere near the same recent provincial impact. There was an ensuing broader discussion on selection bias and how some people are starting to lose kinship with the national side. Notably, a number of posters were all making similar arguments, and were even joined by an Ulster fan that had formed a similar opinion through their own experiences from the other side of the country. Are we all collectively divorced from reality in exactly the same way?

A few people wanted to discuss this matter courteously and objectively, which I appreciate. And I appreciate that right now Leinster are the best resourced and coached province, and that a bias toward Leinster players (in marginal situations) may have a certain pragmatism. But a disappointing number of responses also ranged from 'you're just parroting clickbaiters on Twitter' (insinuation: you can't form your own opinions); to preposterous straw-man arguments of "you're asking for a quota system"; to a plethora of deeply insulting terms including accusations of insanity.

I don't think we're anywhere near a situation where people will renege on supporting Ireland. And in terms of an even broader picture... yeah... we're not Wales.

But therein nonetheless lies the challenge for a lot of Irish fans right now. If you air your grievances, or simply call for some things to even be discussed, a certain faction (a subsection of Leinster fans, I want to be clear) treats you with a tone that just screams 'get back in your box'. And it just so happens that the national side is built around their players, their style and their culture. Ironically (or perhaps not), this subsection will be the very people either most bemused, or brandishing the largest stick of vitriol, for anyone who questions how inclusive the national system feels right now.

I get what you are saying. But you or I don't pick the squad. I think Hodnett is a better player than Penny. But Penny was called up. Farrell must have his reasons.

15 years ago, I was happy to support Ireland when Leinster had 4 or 5 in the 23. What's changed? Obviously, Leinster being a top level squad. The amount of talent produced is insane. But, it's fair to say that Munster and in particular Ulster have not been at that level. One reason is the influence of Lancaster, he's improved the standards at Leinster. With his departure, I expect Leinster won't be as good, along with Sexton retiring. I don't think many posters see Hodnett or Penny as being involved internationally anytime soon.

I guess their time will come. Nobody is getting ahead of VDF right now. I've mentioned before that a fit and firing Connors probably gets the call.

it was a joke....

With respect, you've glossed over a significant amount of bad faith posting and **** stirring to get to your conclusion.

It's not worth re-litigating, but I don't feel you've made an accurate representation of what has happened over the last few days. Which was ultimately storm in a teacup stuff.

I'll certainly grant you that I glossed over the private schools thing. Personally, I don't see its relevance to national selection, or at the very least how it could be considered a Leinster-specific issue.

'Fix' provincialism ?

It's often said that pro rugby being based on the 4 provinces is a strength for Ireland rugby.

This is the other side of that particular coin.

Anyone who thinks the make up of the Irish squad is a storm in a teacup or does not matter is being dishonest

Of course it matters if for example Ireland play England for the grand slam and the only non leinster player is an Aussie playing for connacht, the optics would be terrible.

As long as leinster keep producing the players it won't matter a jot for leinster and Ireland, but how many supporters will show up at the other 3 provinces matches when there is a lack of success and from there it's all down Hill.

The gap between leinster and the other provinces is massive and you would be deluded to think otherwise.

Many ask is How can the IRFU close this gap? A more important question many non leinster supporters are asking now is do the IRFU actually want it closed ?

I'd be surprised if Ireland had conceded all that many TBPs in that period

How can the IRFU close this gap? 

The root cause of the gap is the same root cause of Leinster's success - underage and academy development.

The only way to close this gap is to improve the output of the other provinces, and that is a long and difficult job. I doubt we can ever match the Leinster schools system but we can certainly do better.

Here's a stat that someone can correct me on.

Craig Casey makes his first 6N start at the weekend. Excluding front-row players, he is the first product of the Munster system to reach that milestone since Simon Zebo in 2013. Even if you include front-rowers, that only brings in Kilcoyne (3 career starts in the 6N) and Scannell (1 start in the 6N). And unless I'm forgetting someone obvious, you'd struggle to name anyone who was hard done by in that period. That's an entire decade of very limited player progression from the former biggest supplier of players.

Do IRFU want the gap closed? Of course they do. We're doing extremely well with the majority of the team from Leinster - imagine how much strength in depth we would have if there were more players coming through from all the provinces and through IQ foreigners.

The question is how do we go about closing it. The current crop of young Munster players looks good, but they need to be followed by another one, and another one..