Italy v Ireland Build Up Thread

kuang1 · 23-02-2023 12:41pm

So now we know.

Irish rugby team finally becoming the team to beat in world rugby does not guarantee everyone here develops a sense of humour.

sydthebeat · 23-02-2023 1:40pm

The team is as predicted

just the right amount of changes... both injury enforced and selection

lawrencesummers · 23-02-2023 1:40pm

As predicted he has given the subs from the first two rounds a chance to be starters and its a great call.

Baird and sheehan could make a big impact when they comes on, this is probably a game that wont be put to bed until 65/70 mins.

Above all though its a big day for byrne to show he can be trusted as a starter, im not sure how many people will agree but his performance could have a big impact on the world cup and giving us the peace of mind to rest sexton for some games in france or not.

farmingquestion · 23-02-2023 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278860#Comment_120278860

Probably won't be tested that much in this match.

I don't really think Byrne has the level required to be Jonny's heir. I think he's the best we have though.

Solid kicker so he'll likely get many chances at penalties and putting us into the 22 etc which pundits will lap up. But I don't view him as a threat in the backline.

v South Africa and France he came on to see the game out, have us playing in the right areas which he did fine at.

But I don't see him as much of a threat in the backline in terms of identifying gaps or weakenesses and decision making.

awec · 23-02-2023 1:55pm

Using humour to mask goading / trolling is not going to fly. Posts in this thread have been deleted.

sydthebeat · 23-02-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278915#Comment_120278915

But I don't see him as much of a threat in the backline in terms of identifying gaps or weakenesses and decision making.

pretty much disagree 100%.

i see ross byrnes ability to manipulate defenses to create weakness and gaps to be among his biggest strengths. His ability then to choose the correct option to exploit these gaps is second only to sextons in the current ireland squad.

Clegg · 23-02-2023 2:00pm

Sheehan, Kilcoyne, O'Toole and Baird is a great bunch of players to bring on if you need to make a quick, physical impact.

stephen_n · 23-02-2023 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278931#Comment_120278931

Absolutely, he may not have the pace to go through the gaps himself. That doesn’t mean he can’t engineer them. That’s a completely different thing. The strongest part of his game is his decision making.

awec · 23-02-2023 2:03pm

It's a very strong selection, can't argue with any of it. Feel sorry for McCloskey but Aki was definitely going to be given a start at some stage.

I suppose one nitpick is whether or not it's wise to move Doris to accommodate Conan, as Doris is one of our top players at 8. Can Conan not play 6?

I'll reiterate my position that we'll score 50 points though.

TRC10 · 23-02-2023 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278915#Comment_120278915

Byrne didn't play v South Africa. I take it you meant the Wales match.

And I've been a pretty big Ross Byrne skeptic over the years. However, to say he's "not much of a threat in terms of identifying gaps or weaknesses and decision making" is pretty harsh when in both 6N games so far, he's orchestrated prolonged passages of multi-phase play which resulted in tries, in both of which his decision making and execution was excellent.

Yes Ireland were in winning positions in both instances, so the challenge for him now is delivering from the start and put Ireland into a winning position. But he's been excellent in the two cameos he's had thus far.

accensi0n · 23-02-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278945#Comment_120278945

Definitely, I'd say if we're ahead by say only 10 points with 20 mins to go, we'll easily finish 30 points ahead.

23-02-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278961#Comment_120278961

Complete agreement on the back row. I don't like shifting Doris to 6, he doesn't get as much ball in hand there and that's the best part of his game.

phily2002 · 23-02-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278983#Comment_120278983

Not sure that's true, Conan plays the wide role that POM would play when he's at 8. I'd say Conan is better off the base so that's why he's at 8. I'd imagine Dorris will be doing the same role other than at the scrum.

23-02-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279006#Comment_120279006

Yeah fair enough, Conan does generally play in those wide channels when I think of it. Will be interesting to keep an eye on this weekend, and to see if Doris is as central and effective as he's been the past two rounds.

aloooof · 23-02-2023 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278965#Comment_120278965

Byrne didn't play v South Africa. I take it you meant the Wales match.

Pretty sure he means Australia.

sydthebeat · 23-02-2023 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279006#Comment_120279006

agreed, conan will pretty much directly take up POMs role in open play and is also that extra line out option in his stead as well.

it will be interesting to see what happens if POM comes on for Doris, and how then bouthConan and POM separate their roles.

lawrencesummers · 23-02-2023 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278915#Comment_120278915

He has passed a lot of tests in his career from under a long shadow, if he is going to shine he needs the time to do so and away to Italy is a great place to start.

Experience of this level takes time to build, players needs 5/10 starts at this level to get accustomed to it.

The best of luck to him because he has big boots to fill and plenty of people behind looking for the opportunity if he looks over his shoulder.

awec · 23-02-2023 2:18pm

This must surely be the first time ever an Ireland starting 15 has had more Connacht players than Munster and Ulster combined?

3 from Connacht, 1 each for Ulster and Munster.

TRC10 · 23-02-2023 2:36pm

Cue the annual whinging about not making enough changes for the Italy game even though they've made plenty and more than most expected against a side that very nearly and should have beaten France 3 weeks ago.

I really like the team. I know Sexton was "ruled out", but lets be honest, if it was England or Scotland he probably would be starting. Huge opportunity for Ross Byrne.

Casey getting only his 2nd Ireland start and 1st in the 6N.

Kelleher, Conan and Aki rotated in.

Baird and Crowley on the bench when they could easily have gone for safer selections in Treadwell and Carbery.

sydthebeat · 23-02-2023 2:45pm

I don't see anyone whinging about not enough changes??

lawrencesummers · 23-02-2023 2:46pm

I dont think they have rotated enough for this game.

Skyfloater · 23-02-2023 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279169#Comment_120279169

Wouldn't have minded seeing an alternative fullback, and is Hanson really that nailed on as a starter?

Former Former Former · 23-02-2023 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279210#Comment_120279210

is Hanson really that nailed on as a starter

Yes. I don't see any reason to think otherwise

lawrencesummers · 23-02-2023 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279210#Comment_120279210

Who is pushing for his place?

phily2002 · 23-02-2023 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279252#Comment_120279252

Larmour and JOB are both playing very well but I think Farrell has his back 3 set in stone. Looks like it will take an injury now to see a change. Larmour would be a good bench option but McCloskey has been very good so far and deserves his place.

Clegg · 23-02-2023 3:09pm

Larmour has been tried at 15 and it hasn't worked out. He has the running game for the position, but has struggled a lot with his fielding. Better to leave him on the wing where he's excelling.

sydthebeat · 23-02-2023 3:11pm

we're without 5 guaranteed starters.

we're starting a half back pairing who have never started previously.

we've 3 guys on the bench who have the grand total of 16 cap between them.

we're giving 5 lads their first starts in this years 6 nations.

im not really sure what people want outside of wholesale changes, that NEVER EVER happen

Serbian · 23-02-2023 3:27pm

Larmour is not a full back. I think we've established that from both national and provincial performances. He is a quality winger and could see him threaten Hansen's place as I think he's the "worst" player in our 15 (obviously excellent, but it's a high bar). I've noticed that Leinster have started to use Larmour this season in a similar way — coming in at first receiver and trying to make a good carry using footwork. The reality is he's nowhere near as effective as Hansen is at this role, so for now, he'll stay out of the 23.

We don't really have a dearth of right wingers at the moment — Conway has been out for almost a year, Balacoune hasn't really kicked on and is being dragged down by Ulster's collapse, and I'm not a big fan of Calvin Nash but seems at least on the cusp of the squad. Larmour is next cab off the rank and is on form but is lacking the physicality and aerial ability a bit.

Dubinusa · 23-02-2023 3:42pm

Baloucoune has his injury woes too. He's currently injured? Larmour will be next up. I think Hanson is going ok, so unless he has a stinker, I can't see him being dropped.

lawrencesummers · 23-02-2023 3:47pm

Larmour is playing well alright, but i dont think hes as good an all round player as hansen.

Hes probably the next in line alright, and should be on form over earls and stockdale

Dubinusa · 23-02-2023 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279498#Comment_120279498

Larmour does have the issues with fielding. It's a shame really.

Yeah_Right · 23-02-2023 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279252#Comment_120279252

Zebo.

I'll get my coat.

Dubinusa · 23-02-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279535#Comment_120279535

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Musicrules · 23-02-2023 4:38pm

Warning!! It's hot prediction time! Time to earn some cash. I presume you've all been following and waiting impatiently for this next installment. For avid followers, Ange Capuozzo has been going regularly. The teams are obviously in, my on the ground weather man has provided his report, I've had updates from both camps and my trip to Italy included some stuff my wife will never hear about but it's here, it's on, the prediction is ready, bookies be scared!!

I see this as another high scoring game. Ireland will dominate. But there will be a big lull in Ireland's performance. Ireland will push far ahead, Italy will get a bit closer as we go into the second half and then Ireland to get 2 late tries. Scoreline: Italy 17 Ireland 42. Get on big time!!! Ciao bella!

lawrencesummers · 23-02-2023 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279730#Comment_120279730

I think our error count will be the highest of the games we played so far, the new starters will cause some disruption to what was essentially a very settled team.

Aki getting carded trying to hard to impress is very possible, espically with adamnson in the middle

Baird and sheehan will do wreck when they come on.

Byrne will have some shaky moments, he will be the primary target of the italians.

I think casey will score a try, his opponent is poor and the irish forwards will make gaps for him to exploit

I think we will win and get 4 trys but italy will Score two trys and the game wont go beyond 10 points until our bench has been almost emptied.

pickarooney · 23-02-2023 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279730#Comment_120279730

Tempting to lump on this exact scoreline after your octupus-like accuracy over the first two rounds!

ersatz · 23-02-2023 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279033#Comment_120279033

Yeah, slow and steady wins the race in his case. His game has really come on leaps and bounds over the past season, which is probably based as much on input from Farrell as from Leinster. Let’s keep in mind though, he should be compared to Carbery rather than Sexton.

Neil3030 · 23-02-2023 5:47pm

POM clearly still traumatized by having to cover the wing in Rome in 2013. I see they're easing him back into that theatre gently.

23-02-2023 5:53pm

Hansen is a nailed on starter until he isn't at least, he's getting picked in every game so hard to think otherwise at the moment.

Dubinusa · 23-02-2023 6:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280012#Comment_120280012

Indeed. He's a really good player. There's no real weakness in his game.

I'd say Conway won't get the shirt back. Time is not on his side. Awful season with injury for him.

Poorside · 23-02-2023 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280038#Comment_120280038

Wouldn't say he's the best defender and I don't thing he's really been targeted for some reason.

Echo the thoughts that a different full back could have been thrown in considering the rest of the outside backs are very experienced.

TRC10 · 23-02-2023 8:21pm

I think it's pretty clear that Farrell rejects the notion that a player needs X number of starts in a position before he's able to do a job there in the event of an injury. He does rotate and give guys chances, but only if he believes they're good enough and have earned it. He always seems keen to push this in pressers before games where he's made a few changes.

For example, I've heard the argument that we need to give someone else a go at 15 in case Keenan get's injured. And while I understand that, I don't think Farrell would be concerned if JOB had to slot in there. He sees him there most weeks for Leinster, he saw him against Fiji, the Maori, SA and Aus (albeit the latter two being at 13 and wing) and he seems him there every training session. I don't think the feels he needs to further disrupt team cohesion by playing him against Italy.

Finlay Bealham is a perfect example of a guy stepping up and doing a job because he's good enough, not because he was given loads of starts. He hadn't started a test match since July 2021, but that didn't stop him putting in excellent performances against Wales and France.

A Grand Slam IMO is imperative for this Irish team. And thus, a strong performance that builds on the momentum of the last two games is really important.

sprucemoose · 23-02-2023 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280518#Comment_120280518

maybe, but he also started lowry at 15 last year against italy and afaik keenan was available

TRC10 · 23-02-2023 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280543#Comment_120280543

Yeah he did us Lowry there too, as he was playing outstandingly at the time. But I think it's fair to say that JOB has probably leapfrogged him as 2nd choice now.

sprucemoose · 23-02-2023 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280560#Comment_120280560

i know but alot of what you were saying about JOB applied to Lowry last year too (less international experience) and giving him a bit of gametime, albeit in the A team, has shown hes not quite fitting the role at the moment. I'm not saying Farrell's isnt thinking in the way you describe but just that starting lowry last year would go against it