Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

yourdeadwright · 22-02-2023 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275911#Comment_120275911

Do you think we signed him as a LW or a CF ?

He's been playing CF strange to sign Nunez in summer & another CF in Jan ,

What happens when Diaz is back

Girly Gal · 22-02-2023 5:50pm

Looking back on last nights match, we played some great stuff in the first have, great intensity, but, ran out of steam towards half time. The first Madrid goal was a wonder goal out of nothing, wouldn't really blame anyone, just a magnificent stike. The second goal was a killer, not sure what Allison was at, it really knocked the wind out of our sails. Madrid took over from there and showed their class, they basically picked us off at will, 5-2 actually flattered us in the finish. The defending of the free kick for the third goal was absolutely shocking, hard to believe a professional team would set up like that and make no attempt to cut out the danger.

Gomez is getting a huge amount of flak and rightly so, as he was poor, but, he was exposed as were all the defense by having no protection whatsoever from midfield and trying to cover for TAA who just doesn't know how or want to defend anymore- he's becoming a huge problem that can't be ignored any longer- Vini Jr. had the freedom to do what he liked.

On the pitch the main problems are obviously midfield, which is like a black hole, dragging the whole team down, plus TAA is a massive problem now too. I agree with what others have said, that we have no plan B and Klopp keeps playing the same tactics even though we don't have the players to do so anymore. We don't have the nous to shut down a game and kill the oppositions momentum, Madrid are masters at this. We are completely inflexible in our approach, are unable to adapt to the game as it's happening and if one or two players are missing or out of form it all falls apart. Sticking ridgetly to the same tactics is making us worse than we actually are.

There are massive problems both on and off the pitch, at all levels, players, coaching staff, ownership etc. The only positive is that we don't play teams of Madrid's calibre that often.

mormank · 22-02-2023 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272723#Comment_120272723

Yeah 1 poster said that. People say crazy things all the time but you take that one post from one poster and make it sound like that was the overwhelming sentiment in the thread on the subject. You do it all the time and it's so disingenuous. It's sad really.

SlickRic · 22-02-2023 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275970#Comment_120275970

His movements suggest to me that he was bought as someone who could excel at LW, or potentially as a Firmino replacement. But I don't know.

I think Diaz walks back into the team at LW, and we try Nunez at CF, with Gakpo being given some space to properly find his feet in the system as a rotation player along with Jota.

facehugger99 · 22-02-2023 6:31pm

I said it before the match that I would have liked to see Elliott start but knew Klopp would go with Fab instead.

At this stage it's painfully obvious that both Fab and Hendo have at most 45 minutes in them. If we'd replaced one with the other at halftime it would have kept a bit of experience on the pitch while having Elliott and Bajectic to do the hard running.

I don't know where we go from here. We're definitely looking at a season outside of the Champions League next season but there is a real danger that we will struggle to get back into the top 4 if things spiral.

It just goes to show, you need to really enjoy the good times because you don't know when (or how quickly) they can end.

BorneTobyWilde · 22-02-2023 6:35pm

It's incredible how Fabinho could not run for the 5th goal, he lost it to Modric, and then looked 72 years old in trying to jog after him, Modric left him for dead.

https://youtu.be/yseG0jLrKXY?t=423

Run Forest Run · 22-02-2023 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274536#Comment_120274536

Ferguson's teams were more consistent in the league. However, I would back a Klopp team at their best to beat a Ferguson team at their best.

For all his success, Ferguson never actually created a great team. One that could have a period of dominance in Europe for example.

I still think if Klopp got serious money to spend, he could create a great team that could be dominant both domestically and in Europe. But the way his teams play, they seem to get burnt out after a few seasons because of the high octane nature of the style of play. The question is, will the club back him in the transfer market to do a big rebuild in the summer? And is the money really there to do this?

mormank · 22-02-2023 6:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274242#Comment_120274242

I don't think we are over rating Madrid tbh. Watching them pop the ball around all one touch and two touch at times last night was mesmerising to watch. All their players are basically as technically proficient as you can get ala Man city during their 100 point seasons. Even in our pomp when we were winning game after game for a few years there we could never do that.

As others have said they have energy and hunger and add in the experience they have to that and it really is a phenomenal task task to beat them over 2 legs. Nobody has managed it for 2 years at least, maybe longer, as they made the final last year and I'll be gobsmacked if they don't make the final again this year making the run even longer that no one has managed to beat them in a 2 legged european tie.

Girly Gal · 22-02-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276265#Comment_120276265

Madrid have been constantly underrated on here over the last few years, regardless of how many times they beat us, there are still some posters saying they are no good, even during the second half last night, there was a few posters saying Madrid weren't good! Madrid are a magnificent team, they have shown this over the last decade.able to soak up the pressure and clinical with the chances they create, able to adapt during games to counter the oppositions tactics. Leaving aside the obvious disappointment of Liverpool's second half performance, I actually admired watching the way Madrid played last night, defensively didn't really give an inch after the first 15/20 mins, controlled midfield and picked us off at will. We've played them often enough, but, haven't learnt lessons from those matches

brevity · 22-02-2023 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276262#Comment_120276262

Ferguson created loads of great teams

Run Forest Run · 22-02-2023 8:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276563#Comment_120276563

Really, did any of these great teams manage to defend their Champions League title even once?

His teams had periods of dominance domestically, successfully defending their premier league titles, but they never managed to replicate this with dominance in Europe. As a result they were very good teams, but none of them were truly great teams.

Anyway, this is about Liverpool, so not really appropriate to drag it off topic into a full on Ferguson discussion.

jones · 22-02-2023 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276262#Comment_120276262

You don't think Ferguson ever built a great United team? Not even the 1999 treble one?

In general i agree with most in the thread we are a team in serious decline, with a manager who seems to refuse to acknowledge that fact.

A number of our key players are just not good enough anymore. Fab has had the worst 'fall of a cliff' turn of form i've ever witnessed. Like WTF happened him. He's 8 years younger than Modric last night, EIGHT, and it looked like it was the other way around last night. Henderson cant do more than 45 minutes it seems. Joe thanks for the memories of 3 seasons ago but your surplus to requirements. Milner has been such a good player for us but it's insane we're still turning to him in champions league games to come on and shore things up.

IMO we need 2 starting midfielders, a CB and back up for trent/robbo so up to 5 players this summer. Are FSG going to fund that without shopping in the bargain basement of too young or injury prone.

Run Forest Run · 22-02-2023 8:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276579#Comment_120276579

Nope, the treble team had an outstanding season. They certainly had the ability to kick on and go down in history as one of the truly great teams, but despite doing it consistently in the premier league, they flopped in Europe the following seasons.

Just think how crazy it is that Roy Keane never got another chance to play in a Champions League final... it's criminal really. And all the other great players in that team. They had some of the finest players of their generation, and only one Champions League win to show for it. And it wasn't down to bad luck either btw, that's the excuse you often hear people trot out... they bottled it at key moments in big games. Despite all that amazing talent.

I think Klopp badly needs to get 4th place, in order to get decent money to spend. He should get it anyway, but 4th place would be a huge help in that regard. Plus attracting the sort of names he needs could require CL. It's strange Liverpool don't seem to have the sort of financial muscle you would expect from one of the biggest supported clubs in the world. I know there is the ground redevelopment, but you would still expect there to be more money around.

505_ · 22-02-2023 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276577#Comment_120276577

Obviously we don’t want to appreciate it here but come on. They did 3 Champions league finals in 4 seasons and lost to Barca in 2 of them. That Barca team arguably one of the best ever. They were also 2 points off something like 7 premier leagues in a row. Don’t think we can stretch it to no great teams.. Anyway no need to get side tracked about that now really.

TitianGerm · 22-02-2023 9:45pm

With the way the league is going I'd say we have at best two-three years to win the league again before it's unattainable for us to compete without state backers. And that's if this summers transfers are 100% perfect i.e. Bellingham, Gvardiol and either a DM or high energy CM.

Unfortunately with City, Newcastle, a Qatari backed United and Bohley mad Chelsea we will not be able to compete in the transfer market, and we'll be fighting for EL qualification every year.

The older guys like VVD, Robertson, Henderson will move on for frees or resign on short term deals, the better younger players ala Diaz, Konate, Nunez will not resign and leave on frees or be sold to buy newer younger players and we'll be back to where we were when Klopp joined but with less opportunity to progress. The strong base we have to build on will erode away and we may never win a league title again.

So this summer is extremely important for the club and undoubtedly they've left themselves a monumental task to plug some huge gaps in the team.

Run Forest Run · 22-02-2023 9:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276816#Comment_120276816

Exactly, they wern't a great team... they got comprehensively taken apart in two finals by a much better team. The other winning final, they needed extra time and penalties to defeat a Chelsea team managed by Avram Grant. Sorry, but no that doesn't make you a great team... a very good team perhaps? yes. But not a great one.

Show me one Champions League final, where a Ferguson team did to someone else what that Barca team did to them? Where they were dominant from start to finish, and outclassed another top European team? Bayern outplayed them for large parts of that 99 final, hitting the woodwork several times and were very unlucky in that game. And I've already covered the other final above. I mean, even the fact that Ferguson only has 2 Champions Leagues in his entire time with United should show you that he never actually built a truly great team... because he would certainly have won more CL's if he had.

Really, we need to get off the Ferguson topic. It's the wrong thread for this discussion. We all have different opinions, and that's my one. I think Ferguson was a top manager, he had a huge amount of qualities. But his teams did flop in the Champions League quite a lot imho. That takes nothing away from his overall success in the English game though, he was one of the best in that regard.

Girly Gal · 22-02-2023 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276890#Comment_120276890

Unfortunately, we're already in that position, there is no way this squad is capable of a title challenge next season without massive spending, spending we can't afford. Last summer was the time to strengthen, we didn't and are paying the price now, the really frustrating part is that there were plenty of decent midfielders going at decent fees last summer which would have arrested a lot of our decline. Tbf Fabinho's steep decline couldn't have been foreseen, his spectacular decline is one of the main reasons we are so poor, but, there was question marks over all the other midfielders in the squad, yet we did nothing to address it

Run Forest Run · 22-02-2023 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276963#Comment_120276963

Some of those players might just be having a stinker of a season though.

Look at the top four this season.... realistically who would have had Arsenal challenging for the title and Newcastle in the mix for CL?

I've never really bought into this notion of teams needing years to rebuild. You need a few quality players, but also you need confidence. That is a team right now, playing with very little confidence. Even good players can suffer in those circumstances.

If Arsenal can come from 24 points off Man City last season to challenging with a handful of decent signings... I don't see why Liverpool couldn't do the same.

~Rebel~ · 22-02-2023 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277006#Comment_120277006

I dunno who we can really point to as just having a one-off bad form season... maybe Trent, but his issues are as much from our atrocious midfield as anything. And with that midfield, Hendo's simply getting older, Ox and Keita will be gone, and Fab's is not just form, he's just physically not able anymore. And at the back, Gomez unfortunately is now a few years into looking poor. Matip is one who could step it back up again alright, but he's also getting older - wouldn't be surprised to see us sell him, with Konate starting beside VVD, and a new CB brought in. Would love to see Quansah given a chance to step up as 4th choice in place of Gomez.

I do think we could be back challenging again next season, but it will all come down to whether or not we can make 3 or 4 really astute buys, which is a big ask.

citytillidie · 22-02-2023 11:04pm

Liverpool and Everton fined because Pickford couldn't handle a little sportsmanship that he loves to give out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64738413

Girly Gal · 22-02-2023 11:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277099#Comment_120277099

There are too many problems to resolve for us to be competing for the title next season. Top 4 will be the target next season, a lot depends on if we get top 4 this season, all our main rivals can and are prepared to spend, we are not, compared to last summer we are not as attractive a proposition as United, Arsenal or City, plus Newcastle can outspend us too and might have CL football to offer, even Spurs are likely to outspentd us, Chelsea are buying like crazy, while not buying well they are inflating the market and stockpiling players that we could have targeted.

If it was only our poor season in isolation then maybe we might be back next season, but, circumstances have changed drastically in a positive way for other clubs; Arsenal have improved dramatically, United finally have a good manager who is making great progress, Newcastle now have unlimited funds, those 3 teams really weren't a factor in the last few years, unfortunately our decline couldn't have come at a worse time.

Klopp also needs to develop a plan B, so that when we aren't playing well we can grind results out, he has failed to do that this season, which is a massive concern going forward. Recruitment needs to spot on this summer just to get us into top 4 contention.

505_ · 22-02-2023 11:40pm

Last night not getting any easier. Two nil up at home after fifteen minutes. Then lose 5-2. Conceding 5 at anfield even. Such a capitulation. Madrid the real mentality monsters. They didn’t panic, their experience and quality told. Men v boys in the end. Such a big game at the weekend now. Thankfully Palace are brutal!

~Rebel~ · 22-02-2023 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277349#Comment_120277349

I think it's pretty unlikely we'll challenge - but with the right buys I definitely think it's possible. One need only look at how big a step forward Arsenal took with a few astute buys. From 5th, and 24 points off top, to genuine title contenders in one summer. Happened with our own sudden step up to being a contender in 18/19 too. Long shot, and shouldn't be the expectation by any means, but doable if the transfer lads get their shït together again to build around the quality that's already there.

It's only going to get tougher and tougher with Chelsea settling into what they're doing, and Newcastle growing year on year, and Utd likely getting new owners, so if we don't challenge next year I could see it being a long time before we do again.

giveitholly · 22-02-2023 11:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277401#Comment_120277401

Zaha will probably have a field day

Girly Gal · 23-02-2023 12:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277421#Comment_120277421

Midfield needs a total overhaul, which won't happen, of the midfielders that are likely to stay on, none are really up to the required level, the senior guys are past it and the younger guys aren't ready yet. We also need someone to challenge TAA, as the way he's currently playing cannot be ignored any longer it's a massive problem, which Klopp is blind to, I can't see why TAA can't at least try to defend better without taking away from his attacking qualities, it was fine in other seasons when we had players who could cover for him, but, those players are now struggling in their own positions, let alone cover for TAA. Good recruitment would resolve a lot of our issues, but, will the club's budget be able to facilitate the necessary signings, I doubt it, plus our recruitment over the last while has been hit & miss.

brevity · 23-02-2023 12:10am

Gvardiol adding more to his price tag.

Zak Flaps · 23-02-2023 3:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273990#Comment_120273990

Bajcetic is not good enough to be starting week in week out

But at the moment he is. He's better than Fabinho, Henderson, Ox, Jones etc... Can you not see that?

He has the potential to be a superb player. I don't think you can spot that.

~Rebel~ · 23-02-2023 3:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277767#Comment_120277767

That's it exactly. He shouldn't be the one we have to turn to, but the reality is that the 7 senior players who should be ahead of him are either performing very poorly or are injured, making him a starter by default. It's a failing of recruitment that that's the case, but we are where we are. Right now I would be starting Bajcetic over Ox, or Milner, or Jones, or Fabinho (and obviously the injured Arthur, and Thiago) because he's playing better than them, and is fit.

And with Bajcetic being one of the few (only) lads in the squad that has both proper defensive combative attributes, and proper fitness levels, his inclusion is basically a no-brainer. Personally I'd be starting a midfield trio right now of Henderson at 6, and Bajcetic and Keita just in front. Likely switching Bajcetic back to 6 when Hendo invariably gets too tired and one of the other lads comes on. Going forward, one would hope we buy players of a calibre that puts Bajcetic back into distant reserve status, but that's not where we are right now.

I saw a mention there as well that someone was mocked over suggesting Jones be sent on loan - that's nonsense, and i implore the person to find examples of that. I've said exactly the same thing constantly, and can't say i've ever seen any mockery in any way of it. I've seen people say we're so weak we simply can't afford to lose options, which is a fair point (though one which i'd disagree with, as the kid simply needs to play football at a lower level to learn and improve).

dogbert27 · 23-02-2023 7:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277421#Comment_120277421

I can't believe City sold Jesus and Zinchenko to Arsenal.

2 league winning players sold to and strengthening a top 6 club.

City selling them also gives the players a determination to prove City wrong.

noodler · 23-02-2023 8:54am

It's clear we need another CB.

Joe can't start for us again if there is another option.

VVD and Matip have dropped and Konate is a sick note.

Fitz* · 23-02-2023 10:11am

Signing a new back up RB is going to be like Spurs trying to sign a striker to be back up for Kane.

It's hard to find someone content to be sitting on the bench for 75% of the season and then be ready to play at a high level whenever that one game comes up, and then back to the bench again.

It was handy when Neco was coming through as he was able to play some games to a decent level but he wanted more consistent game time which ultimately happens with back up players.

noodler · 23-02-2023 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278066#Comment_120278066

Trent's stock is alot lower than it was a year or two ago.

Personally, the team need to improve in so many other places before his attributes outweigh his weaknesses for me.

~Rebel~ · 23-02-2023 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278066#Comment_120278066

A lot also depends on what the club make of Calvin Ramsay, and what his injury situation is. If it seems like something that just needs to be taken care of once and for all, and will then be something he doesn't have to deal with again, then he might be seen as the backup solution. He's obviously very highly rated, and it's not too strange for some of our backups to be on the fringes for their first season (especially as a young fella) - Tsimikas barely played in his first season, but has been a solid backup since. Coming with an existing back injury (which it sounds like is now healed), and then getting a knee injury this month is far from ideal though.

IncognitoMan · 23-02-2023 12:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276262#Comment_120276262

Popped in to see what the general thoughts were after being beaten by Real and seen this (and the follow up posts)

Oh my... Fergie built 3 completely different teams at Utd that would all beat the best Klopp team.

One of your points was about Utd not defending any of their CL wins... but Klopp has not defended ANY title he has won.

Not the 1 PL. Not the 1 CL. Not the 1 league cup. Not the 1 FA cup. Nothing defended. Not a community shield.

By your own logic Klopp's sides can only be considered "good" not "great" same for Pep's City (No CL win at all despite him having the best squad in Europe for multiple seasons).

This is especially bad when you look around Europe now, there has never been a weaker set of European opponents for English teams to overcome and yet the only sides to do so whilst also winning the PL are Fergie teams... Twice.

citytillidie · 23-02-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278625#Comment_120278625

If you want to be technical Liverpool have also twice won the European Cup and League in the same season so it hasn't only been Fergie teams

Electric Nitwit · 23-02-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120277453#Comment_120277453

He's injured, luckily

Electric Nitwit · 23-02-2023 2:07pm

Good news by the look of it...

Blocking clubs from joining a breakaway European Super League will be among the powers held by English football's new independent regulator.

The plan for a regulator, recommended by a fan-led review last year, has been confirmed by the UK government.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64536218

BorneTobyWilde · 23-02-2023 2:33pm

It's you, Hi, you're the problem it's thee

At Tea Time everybody agrees

You stare directly at the ground but never in the mirror

It's become exhaust always rooting for this anti-hero

yourdeadwright · 23-02-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278625#Comment_120278625

Fergie is a legend brilliant manger & built multiple great teams., the best ever in England

But i still think Klopp's Prem title winning team beat any of his sides, simply because football has become so much quicker & more powerful in the last decade . For example Gary Nev wouldn't get near a top side now a days & its not his fault just times move on the game has changed , United's old 4 4 2 would get rip apart by Klopps best Liverpool or Peps best City sides simply because football has evolved

Its almost impossible to compare football then to now, There was the top 4 then now there is a big 6 & Newcastle to come, City where not what they are now , PSG where no what are now ,

Its impossible & unfair to compare

mosstin · 23-02-2023 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276890#Comment_120276890

Thing is that I'm perfectly ok with this in many ways. I don't want us to be state funded in any way, shape or form. I'm still one of those who see FSG as fantastic owners (with a few missteps along the way, sure) and would be happy with them at the reins next season (which I think they will). We're no paupers but we will be compared to Newcastle, City and inevitably United next season once they're sold. I'll enjoy it more watching Klopp trying to negotiate building a second great team in the same way that he did with his first iteration. Success will always be sweeter that way.

Girly Gal · 23-02-2023 5:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279323#Comment_120279323

The Liverpool team of the late seventies and early eighties would have to be considered the best English team ever as, they dominated both domestically and in Europe, at a time when English teams were the best in Europe (Forest and Villa both won the European cups), Fegie's United would run them close, but, lose out because they never dominated in Europe.

It's impossible to compare eras fairly and there's always a recency bias. It won't be popular here and despite not winning in Europe I'd rate Pep's City and Mourinho's Chelsea next as they dominated domestically, then Klopp's Liverpool next, that might seem harsh but, it's on the basis that Klopp's side hasn't successfully defended any titles or won any competition a second time, then Wenger's early Arsenal team ( late nighties, early noughties era) would be next.

IncognitoMan · 23-02-2023 6:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279323#Comment_120279323

This isn't remotely true - for example Gary Neville would be Liverpool's best RB right now. He had a different skill set to TAA and it is a skill set Pool could very much do with right now. Every week we are seeing the Liverpool backline get caught out (Midfield is a massive reason for this as well) but Trent is NEVER aware of his surroundings. An unreal talent on the ball TAA but GN will help you keep put more goals at your own end.

TAA actually reminds me of if you had tried to play Beckham as a RB - on the ball he'd be absolute quality but off it... well he's just not a defender

Ben White has also been playing RB for the league leaders for most of the season and I don't think anyone is suggesting he is better than GN was as a RB are we?

As for overall team vs team, I can see an argument for over a full season would the Utd teams out point Pep's City for example because they are such a massive points scoring team (they are masters of not dropping points to the weaker teams really) but head to head I'd back Utd 94, Utd 99 and Utd 08 to beat Pep's best City team. The thoughts of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez breaking onto the open space 😮

What has changed mostly in the last 10-20 years is sports science and I think total professionalism in the game. The players are far better tuned in and prepared for the demands of the modern game as it has become necessary to stay at the top. Kinda unfair to compare culture of the times.

Man for man and talent for talent though? Yeah I'm taking Utd.

AdrianG08 · 23-02-2023 6:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278066#Comment_120278066

Its time to start looking for another role in the team for TAA. I'd argue we actually need a starting RB who can attack but more importantly can defend. TAA is not actually playing right back, he used to be an auxiliary right winger, but now he seems to be playing this free role where he comes inside. But its to the detriment of the team as a whole, it actually means 2 players need to rotate in covering for him (the right sided CB or the right hand side of the 3 man midfield- Hendo or Gomez).

Its no wonder our defence is stretched, the midfield is porous enough, but imagine being asked to defend wide areas as a CB aswell as not having a DM with legs in front of you. Its kamikaze stuff.

We need to decide what we are doing with TAA, no point having a playmaker at RB (or a 3 man defence in essence) when playing top quality teams. Time to decide if hes capable of playing in midfield or not. Or else he needs intensive coaching in defending. Its a blind spot for our management team, it really is. He is a good player but not so good as to warrant destabilising other areas of the team.

yourdeadwright · 23-02-2023 6:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280036#Comment_120280036

Klopp is never in a million years picking Neville over Trent it just isn't happing ,

As i said its a different time Trent strength as a full back would put him infront of Neville strengths as a full back, remember we are talking about Trent in a functioning Liverpool side ,,

As i said its a different era, Id still actually pick Neville as the best RB ever for what he done over an extended period but Klopp would not pick him ahead of Trent in todays game ,

White is a RB on paper but he basically plays a 3rd CB as Zinchenko on the left moves into CM when Arsenal have the ball ,, so again i think Arteta would pick White because of his pace and physicality for the job needed

I agree impossible an unfair to judge as the game is so different, but i still think Liverpool would tear that United team a new one due to pace & power of the team, Salah , Mane , Bobby got more goal in a season than United front 3 ever did ,

Fitz* · 23-02-2023 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280060#Comment_120280060

And tbh I would say absolutely not to that!

I think it's a pretty tired narrative around Trent the last few months. He's actually been pretty good defensively since the restart, and his attacking output has returned to a very high level also. The whole defensive system as a whole was terrible in the first half of the season. Elliott not covering Trent, Fabinho / Hendo letting runners go past them with ease and the CBs having a multitude of individual errors. Even Robbo had a bad few months individually himself and sometimes had worse games than Trent but Trent is the popular bandwagon pick to slate. He still is. Don't get me wrong, there has been plenty of games where goals conceded were his fault because of individual errors like the Man Utd game but then there are some like against Ajax where we conceded down thay flank with a 2v1 against Trent. What's he supposed to do there when it's a system error where Elliott left him exposed but Trent gets the blame because it's easier to say 'GET TRENT OUT NOW' than look at systematic problems.

What exactly did Trent do wrong the last night? Vini Jr might have scored 2 but neither goals were as a result of something Trent did or did not do. Gomez was at fault for 3 or 4. Certainly involved in most, they came down his side. Again, it's not like Trent forced Gomez into these mistakes either.

Trent playing as a somewhat inverted RB/CM is fine with me. It's been in play for more than just this season. It was also in play last season and there were no complaints then. Trent had a brilliant season. A few teams are doing the same in the league now with Bernardo Silva / Rico Lewis / Walker / Zinchenko etc.

The difference here is that those teams have the other 'full back' tuck in as a 3rd CB like Ake/Walker, or the CB go wide like White. We have Robbo who does not tuck in (bar that Brighton game and it didn't work out even if it was 0-0 at HT until they changed away from the 3-4-3 and conceded 3 goals).

These teams are playing somewhat close to 3-2-2-3 or something of that ilk. Liverpool actually did play something like a 2-3-2-3 for a few years, in possession, but it was Fabinho moving into the middle of the CBs as opposed to the full back tucking in. We moved away from this when Thiago replaced Gini and Trent moved more central with Hendo moving much wider. It was aimed as a evolution, as many said at the time that 'stop Liverpool full backs and you stop then'. this was designed to have a double pronged central creation hub with Thiago & Trent and try to free up Robbo / Mane / Salah out wide.

Trent doesn't have the pace to play as a winger, and you lose his passing instincts there too. I wouldn't move him there in a million years. Dani Alves didn't move there, Roberto Carlos etc. And anyways, doing this also forces you to change Salah's role. He's not a number 9. He wants to stay as a wider forward cutting in onto his left foot, not with his back to goal centrally. Having full backs who defend only are a dying breed. Especially in the top teams.

Having a system who get the most out of your best attackers are the way to go, and the one that has the key triangle of Trent - RCM - Salah has been extremely important for us in the past and will be again. Why move Trent and Salah away from that? You're ripping up the whole team in both a defensive and attacking sense when only a defensive change is needed to prevent counter attacks.

theoneeyedman · 23-02-2023 8:35pm

When did Neville become a great full back? Jesus lads, serious revisionism there. Local lad in a great team, but as an individual he wasn't a great player. Fit into the team well, had a good attitude and was one of Fergies boys, but was often exposed at the tip level and at International level too.

A good player in a tip team at the time, but not a great player imho anyway. And certainly, if playing now, would be less relevant, like a less powerful version of Wan Bassaka.

passatman86 · 23-02-2023 9:11pm

At the moment I'm thinking I'd like to see 4 defenders at the back who can defend firstly and allow creativity and crosses come from natural wingers. Trent and Robertson have served us exceptionally well the last few seasons but time to get the basics right at the minute - Danny Murphy has given me some hope saying on talk sport that he's certain it's going to all come good soon

Girly Gal · 23-02-2023 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120280559#Comment_120280559

Trent has very limited defensive instincts, he's almost completely unaware of danger in and around our box when we are defending, the CL final is a perfect example. He's attacking is top notch, but, he should still be able to defend when required. One of the reasons Gomez looked so poor against Madrid was because he was trying to cover for Trent, Gomez isn't capable of that, he's struggling to do his own job. Obviously midfield being so poor totally exposes the defence too, but, there was a few complaining about Trent's defending last season too, even when the team were playing well. The criticism I'd have of Trent is that he doesn't appear to have shown any inclination to improve his defending, the top players work on their weaknesses.

It should be easier to get Trent to defend adequately ( I'm not expecting him to turn into Maldini) rather than replacing him or moving him to a different role, but, he needs to improve his defending.

giveitholly · 23-02-2023 9:44pm

Regarding the weekend,what changes do ye see. Presume Matip will come in for Gomez. The front 3 should start again. God only knows what midfield 3 he picks?

Infoseeker1975 · 23-02-2023 9:54pm

Xabi Alonso is doing some job at Leverkusen, hopefully it continues....was such a class player.

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