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LGFA welcome Transgender players.

12467

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    so much to go through ..........

    "It seems very controlling" .... you deffo have issues with us bold men on here giving an opinion.......

    Do you have issues with so many men running LGFA clubs? Coaching kids? Lining pitches ? Hanging nets ? Or do the ladies do all that too?

    "You made the original claim, I let you provide a source for that first."

    So you made up a claim, just to base your argument on it ? Good man.

    I gave an opinion that LGFA lag behind the Gaa and Camogie , you said "They have more members and more people attending their games."

    But cant back it up ......

    "Your the own who's started a thread about an organisation that you aren't member of, aren't allowed be and member of, and have no interest in being a member of but are giving out about the decisions this organisation make. But yep, I'm the ones who triggered. Lolol."

    Imagine starting a thread in the GAA forum about the LGFA allowing transgender to play against girls/ladies...... 😲 😣

    Shur there no interest there at all. Only women should have an opinion ... 🙄 😀

    You have no legitimate points to make about the subject apart from you own bias against men having an opinion about this decision by the LGFA....

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    but ...but....but..... but.... Men shouldnt be commenting ...

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    But I am not stopping him making a decision about his daughter. I haven't told him not to take his daughter out of the LGFA. Quite the opposite, I have only encouraged him, and any other parent with an issue, that they should all leave the LGFA if they have issue regarding the health and safety of their children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,643 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Well done to the LGFA. It is great to see an inclusive an open-minded organisation when so many are still so small minded.

    The same people saying this is bad are probably the ones that were happy when there was no Women playing Golf or Rugby etc.

    It's not like there is going to be a huge influence and they do have a voting procedure for who can and can not join.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    So the only issue you have with the LGFA policy is that it's allowed at the u18 age level?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    So is your sister a child and if not wtf has that to do with his duty as a parent to his child?

    Other than to get a passive aggressive"controlling" dig in?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    I don't have an issue with men volunteering to help put with the running of the LGFA. Would I have an issue with them thinking they have a god given right to decide how the LGFA operates? Absolutely.


    I haven't made anything up, I just won't provide sources for you when you refuse to provide sourcs for your own claims. If you have an issue with the accuracy of my claim, Google it. Still waiting for the sources claiming camoige is better than womens football btw.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "So the" what? He just gave a big long explanation and that's what you take from it? The dishonesty is amazing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    If his concern is only for his daughter then he needs to remove the word "sister" from his post. He claimed his concern was for his daughter and his sister.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    That's the only thing worth taking from it tbh. I mean, it's hard to take anything he said that seriously when about five posts previously he has posted an article from an actually women GAA who encouraged transwomen to get involved in the sport.


    As I have said many times, if this is such a massive health and safety issue for women in the LGFA they will make it known very very quickly, and they will all leave the LGFA due to those concerns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    STOP IT !!!!!!!


    You are making sense.....

    We need more knee jerk irrational denial of scientific facts and irreputable biological evidence ...



    *sarcasm ...

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    What does the science say.


    "Transgender women in the female category of sport: perspectives on testosterone suppression and performance advantage

    Emma N Hilton, Tommy R Lundberg

    Sports Medicine 51, 199-214, 2021"

    "Accordingly, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) determined criteria by which a transgender woman may be eligible to compete in the female category, requiring total serum testosterone levels to be suppressed below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to and during competition. Whether this regulation removes the male performance advantage has not been scrutinized"

    "We report that the performance gap between males and females becomes significant at puberty and often amounts to 10–50% depending on sport. The performance gap is more pronounced in sporting activities relying on muscle mass and explosive strength, particularly in the upper body. Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed. Sports organizations should consider this evidence when reassessing current policies regarding participation of transgender women in the female category of sport."

    The 10nm/L comes from the IOC with little scientific backing, much like the treatment in the Tavistock which was shut down with the lack of peer reviewed science backing medical interventions.

    Once the adults in the room speak up postmodern horsesh1te tends to be seen for what it is.

    The findings of the study would be obvious to anyone whoever played field sports and had any involvement with women's sports.

    The 10nm in twice the new IAAF level of 5nm FOR A NON CONTACT SPORT

    https://worldathletics.org/news/press-release/eligibility-regulations-for-female-classifica

    Anyone got a link to the science used by LGFA coming to their decision? It'll be an easy case for some personal injury lawyer...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Did they consult those on here that are in favour of it ?

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    The players did not vote on that.

    It was put into the governance section of their website... No press release (that i can find from the lgfa about it)...

    If there was a ballot held for the members , im not so sure it would pass.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    "I don't have an issue with men volunteering to help put with the running of the LGFA. Would I have an issue with them thinking they have a god given right to decide how the LGFA operates? Absolutely."

    When men volunteer, contribute financially and are members of the LGFA they have every "god given right" to partake in decisions made alongside any woman who also engages with the LGFA.

    Just like women who volunteer, contribute financially and are members of the GAA they have every "god given right" to partake in decisions made in the GAA.

    You wanted equality, lap it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    ??? 😣

    "I don't have an issue with men volunteering to help put with the running of the LGFA" -

    "Would I have an issue with them thinking they have a god given right to decide how the LGFA operates? Absolutely."

    Jesus you are hard to work out....

    You want men to coach/line pitches/hang nets etc but you have a problem with them having a say in the running of the organisation?? Is that at Club level ? Intercounty ? or at the LGFA itself?

    Obvioulsy the LGFA itself has no issue with men and their "given right to decide how the LGFA operates" as their management committee 'currently maintains a 50:50 gender representation and will strive to maintain this ratio as part of this recruitment process.' (lgfa website)

    So they dont seem to mind a males imput into the running of the organisation, BUT YOU DO ??

    So , i reckon the real problem for your angst and ire, is that you , yourself, dont like men being in power ?

    You have masked the original topic with ramblings about male power .

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    Yes, the ones who think men shouldn't be competing against women in physical sports are exactly those that stopped women playing sports in the first place. That's some fantastic mental gymnastics to show how virtuous you are and how evil anybody that questions your view is. Straight from the playbook on everything these days.

    If one fairly average male sprinter decided to do a Lia Thomas they would set a world record that would never be beaten by a woman. But sure that's grand - the people that would dare question that are anti woman!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    UK study of 15 sports included


    "Relevant considerations not addressed in most policies included pre- versus post-pubertal athletes, justification for testosterone thresholds, the length of time out of competitive action (if any) for transitioning athletes, the irreversible advantage from male puberty (if any), the responsibility for and frequency of follow up for hormonal testing and the consequences for athletes outside set testosterone limits.".


    Australian study of 11 sports

    "This review presents a summary of recent biological, sport science, and endocrine research on performance and physical changes in transitioning transgender adults. Although such research is in its infancy, findings point to ongoing superiority of TW's performance and innate biological advantages compared to cis women, despite lowered testosterone with hormone suppression therapy. We assert that sports bodies should pay greater heed to the biological facts and continue to seek research to support participation policies. In the meantime, we argue that the current transgender participation guidelines be withdrawn, and that sports organizations explore other fairer solutions to facilitate inclusive participation for trans athletes."


    See what happens when fluffy post modern theory runs into the real world of hard science.


    That took all of 10 mins on Google scholar, looking forward to the comprehensive studies on which the LGFA based this decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    I posted similar findings from FINA, IRFU, and the UCI about Transgender players in their sport.

    (Page 2 post 47).


    and the 'dangers' of trans women sharing changing rooms with girls/ladies ...

    (Page 2 post 60) .


    But... But....But ....But..... yee men cant comment.... ....

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    And how many men here who fall in that category?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    I've hard to work out because you seem to have difficult understanding what I have typed. I have no idea where I said I wanted men to do all that, please do hightlight where I said that. I have a massive issue with men, like yourself, who have no interest, no investment, and no direct involvement in telling other peolle what they can and cant do.

    Here's a link to a current LGFA player says that is happy to welcome transwomen to participate in LGFA.


    Why exactly do you think you have the right to tell she is wrong, and the right to tell her what she can/can't do with her own body? I'm genuinely fascinated to know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure



    I think you're reading that wrong,

    Danielle did however encourage transgender people to become involved in the GAA in other capacities.

    “The GAA is an inclusive organisation,” she said. “We have come on leaps and bounds and I would encourage transgender people to become involved in the GAA at all other levels.”

    Probably means along the lines of coaching / line pitches/hang nets etc...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    You might want to actually read that link.

    No comment on the science of course



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    Possibly, but in the the part they directly quoted she clearly states "levels". The use of the term "in other capacities" was used by the newspaper themselves, not Danielle. Now the term levels nearly always means age or grades in a sports context.


    So when someone says "involved in all other levels" I take that to mean, other age levels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    I did, you might want to read it aswell.


    Why would I comment on the science? It has no relevance to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    I coach Camogie , and help with ladies GF. U16 and Minor.


    Next 'caught ya" question?

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,797 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Its not going to affect me in any way so don't have a strong opinion either way but I'd imagine its not going to be great for the player who gets a shoulder from someone who was born a man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Jesus.....


    You are deflecting so far from the issue now you just want to make it about quotes from previous posts......

    Ok. W

    You said in post number 159:

    "I don't have an issue with men volunteering to help put with the running of the LGFA" - Im supposing you meant day to day running of clubs? the coaching/lining/nets etc ...

    and in in the same paragraph you then posted :

    "Would I have an issue with them thinking they have a god given right to decide how the LGFA operates? Absolutely." I took that as in the legislature and committee running of the organisation?


    So please tell what you meant by the lines in bold then , if i misunderstood you ?

    And then you are getting so irate you are guessing , because im a man, i have no interest or involvement? You are totally wrong kid.

    Re The Link.

    That lady does not say she is happy to welcome trans women to participate.... Did you even read it ?!?!?

    She says “We have come on leaps and bounds and I would encourage transgender people to become involved in the GAA at all other levels.” ie not on the pitch playing !

    First line of the piece :

    "A member of a Donegal GAA club has hit out at the LGFA over its ruling to allow transgender girls to play Gaelic games."

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    And you don't think those ladies you couch GF should be allowed make a decision on their own health and safety? Very interesting.


    Also, since you're involved in both so indepthly, you should easily be able to provide a source that says camoige is much bigger than ladies football. Still waiting on that one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    As a general rule of thumb I have no issues with men being involved in any area or level of the the LGFA. However, their general attitude, behaviour and conduct will impact on how positive or negative their involvement is.


    I'll clarify my position just so we are clear, I don't think a man should have the authority to tell women what she can and can't do with her body. I respect a women's right to bodily automny and I respect their right to make a decision on what is best for their own health and safety. The LGFA made the decision to allow transgirls and women participate in the sport, I am not going to tell women that it's now unsafe for them to play LGFA, that's there decision to make and its up to women yo make a determination about their own health and safety. You seem to think differently though.

    But as you have said, youbsre involved in ladies football so you do have the inside scope. A few questions for you,


    I assume you are now stepping away from all your coaching duties and involvement with the LGFA? Also, what % of ladies have declared they'll now be stepping away from the sport due to this trans policy? I guessing it must be around 90% going by your posts.


    The first line of the piece isn't a quote. It's the interpretation the writer of the article has made. When the player referred to parents as well led me to think. But as I said, I could eb wrong. But I'm sure we can both agree that the GAA being an inclusive organisation is fairly comical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    I think the association that they pay membership to become a member of should have asked them , before they passed the decision...

    The association didnt allow the ladies i coach make a decision on their own health and safety......

    On here ,Im not speaking for any girl that i have coached, im speaking for me.... MY opinion.

    "Also, since you're involved in both so indepthly, you should easily be able to provide a source that says camoige is much bigger than ladies football. Still waiting on that one."

    As i said before, I did not say Camogie was bigger - i said that my personal viewpoint, from experience that the LGFA were the least well run out of the 3 organisations - You countered by saying the LGFA had more members , without providing any evidence ..

    Keep clutching though.🙄



    Can you tell me why the IRFU, FINA, and the UCI (to name just a few) wont allow transgender competitors in female events ?

    

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    There are allowing the ladies to make a decision o their own health and safety though. No one is forcing them to continue playing, if they deem the health and safety risk to be too significant they can take up another sport. Other alternatives could be not playing in a match against a team with a trans person etc.



    Wiki puts the numbers play camogie worldwide at 100,000.


    The LGFA had nearly 200,000 members by 2020.


    I can't, I wasn't part of the decision making process for those organisations.


    But, I can provide some information on what I woud deem relevant or important when deciding a sporting organisations transpolicy.


    What are the sporting objectives of the organisation? Are they trying to produce elite athletes to compete, and win, at an international level? Do most mainly participate for social, health benefits etc?Is there a professional arm of the sport? Is there a pathway to significant financial gain to be had? How many trans people are likely be participate in the sport? What is the level of physical contact involved in the sport? Full contact? how important is the concept of being inclusive to the organisation? Do we want tranphobes in the organisation(coaches, volunteers, other parents etc)? Do we want peolle who are prejudice against trans people etc?


    At the end of the day, every organisation will place a different priority on all of the above and sufficient research and knowledge will also play a big part of deciding what the most appropriate trans policy is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    "I am not going to tell women that it's now unsafe for them to play LGFA, that's there decision to make and its up to women yo make a determination about their own health and safety. You seem to think differently though."

    Hate to break it to you, 12yo to 18yo are NOT women, they're girls. Someone in the LGFA are going on a solo run on this by passing a rule without consultation with all members of the organisation - as stated by Danielle Loughrey clearly in her interview linked to earlier in this thread:

    “There was absolutely no consultation process from what I can see was carried out with county boards, clubs and players.

    “If there had been then the LGFA would have known about the level of unease felt by everyone on this issue.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭thegame983


    Men aren't allowed to have an opinion on men playing women's sport.

    2023.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    My sister told me she doesn't think it is right that they are allowed to play in womens matches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    Did you actually read the article?. She said she isn't in favour of the ruling and it could cause long term damage to the LGFA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭eggy81


    You can just say woman. We’ll know what it means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme



    I know there girls. But they can still make a determination on their own health and safety or else their parent(s) will. Either way, they won't be forced into playing LGFA against there will.


    And fair play to Dainelle for doing a survey of the nearly 200k members herself finding that they all feel a level of unease. Trojan work on her part.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,511 ✭✭✭Augme


    I did read the article. In the article it specially references the 12-15 age bracket, uses the word children numerous times. Dainelle herself repeatedly uses the word girls, never women, and talks about how parent are concerned. Then she says transgender people are welcome at all other "levels". I mentioned before I have ever hear term used in a context like this to mean age levels. But I did also say I could well be mistaken on that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    "Dainelle herself repeatedly uses the word girls, never women"

    Ah here now, do you ever listen to post-match interviews of a team captain on the Radio/TV in the Senior All-Ireland series?

    "Our boys gave it all out there today, we left nothing on the field"

    "All our girls battled hard to the end, we never took our foot off the pedal"

    Adult men and women will refer to their team mates as boys and girls and rarely as men and women. It's the type of language used, especially here in Ireland and in the GAA/Gaelic sphere of sports.

    You certainly won't hear them say "all the cis-men/women battled hard there today and never gave up"

    Go on up the garden would ya.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    There are no “ trans experts “


    only ideologues



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭davidx40


    Do we want Transphobes in organisation........what bull ......so anyone who thinks a man is a man no matter what dress or lipstick they put on are being made feel there wrong ......... Wear a dress , lipstick , high heels, call yourself whatever but don't expect us normal people to leave a man into a teen girls changing room



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,949 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Fairly standard far right tactic, one that helped to bring Brexit into life




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,949 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Isn’t it funny how you have to twist the scenario and make it sound like old men will be playing with teenage girls?



  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭JohnJoFitz


    Has it not happened already. Someone post up that picture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,949 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭JohnJoFitz


    What age band rules prevent teenage girls playing at any adult level?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,949 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Funny how @davidx40 didnt mention adult level. I guess teen girls changing rooms has much more “riling up” impact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




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