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Adult caution

  • 01-02-2023 12:30am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7


    If option of adult caution or going to court are being offered and Gardai agree to give offender a time period of one week to consider which option and seek legal advice, can Gardai apply for summons during that one week time period without confirming with offender which option they are choosing? TIA



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 JackPlanets


    More likely a Charge Sheet but yes they can charge a person before the period is up. But the person can accept the Caution right up to the hearing date, they can't revoke the offer (except maybe in cases where they are adding multiple offences to the charge). If the person decides at last minute to accept it the court will just be told the matter has been resolved via a caution and the case will be dismissed.

    Adult Caution is obviously handy for a Garda to get an issue off their desk, but it's clear they also use them in cases where the chances of conviction in court aren't necessarily that high and they're almost chancing their arm.

    Obviously it's up to the defendant to choose what they want to do, but I think Gardaí hope defendants will take the caution rather than having to pay for a solicitor, deal with court fees and so on.

    Post edited by JackPlanets on


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 confused50


    Thanks JackPlanets for your reply. Just in relation to what you said about using the adult caution where the chance of conviction in court isn’t that high, apologies for my lack of understanding in all this legal stuff but I had presumed once a case goes to a district court there is always a conviction, I don’t understand why it would be brought to court if there is a possibility of not convicting the person, surely a criminal case can only be brought to court if there is strong evidence to convict??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    think about that for a moment. if there is always a conviction then what is the point of the judge? you're right that they don't bother going to court if they feel they dont have enough evidence for conviction. that doesn't guarantee you will be found guilty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 JackPlanets


    District Court just means there has to be a hearing (unless you plead guilty).

    As cases in the District Court are taken by Gardaí themselves rather than the DPP (as is the case in other courts) it is quite common to see cases come before the District Court which come nowhere close to the burden of proof. You regularly see District Court stuff quashed on appeal, or just struck out by the Judge because the evidence isn't high enough.

    It would appear that in at least some of these cases the Gardaí themselves know they probably can't get a conviction in court based on what evidence they have, so instead decide to offer a Caution in the hope the accused person will just take it. That basically results in a win for them as they get to claim the crime was solved/resolved, and a "win" for the accused as they don't have a conviction or the expenses associated with going to court.

    If a person is offered a Caution and denies the charge or doesn't believe there is enough evidence then it is worth their while going to court. On the first day they can apply for disclosure to see what evidence the Gardaí have. Then their solicitor can review that evidence and advise the client. The solicitor could well tell them to take the caution based on what they see, or they could tell them they've a good chance of winning in court in which case it'll go to a hearing.

    It's obviously up to the defendant. But IMO if the defendant believes the evidence is flimsy it is worth going that route, The only downside is they'd have to pay for the solicitor to do the review.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Peintre Celebre


    Op please don't listen to Jack because he is talking out of his arse



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    I think that is pretty comprehensive. However the offer of the adult caution may not remain on the table indefinitely, and there is no guarantee that the prosecuting garda will withdraw the matter at the last minute in favour of a caution if you so decide.

    Also, it is a general requirement of the adult caution scheme that the alleged wrongdoing is admitted by the individual to receive the caution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7 confused50


    Thanks for all your replies. When there is no evidence such as cctv, witness, recordings etc, only one persons word against the others then how can a judge convict someone. Surely something like that couldn’t proceed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    This is something you need to receive legal advice on. A solicitor practicing in the district court involved will be in a position to best advise you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭walterking


    And some gardai will skew the information because it's what they "think" especially if you don't have a solicitor.

    After a personal experience of incompetent/corrupt gardai (he's currently suspended) I'd always check with people as to what a particular Garda is like.

    Another Garda can be quite forthcoming in information.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    No corrupt garda required for a conviction based on witness evidence alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 JackPlanets




  • Registered Users Posts: 7 confused50


    Thanks for all your comments but still find the whole system in this country (living here 10 years now) absolutely bizarre.

    I cannot understand how a prosecuting Garda can stand up in front of a judge trying to get someone convicted of something they clearly did not do and the prosecuting Garda has absolutely zero evidence only the statement made by the person who complained and it can be proven that the statement is false. Adult caution has been confirmed as open right up until the court date as per prosecuting Garda. Surely the Gardai don’t want to make themselves look silly by bringing someone to the stand when they have no evidence and they are aware of all the evidence the other side have, wouldn’t this been seen as a waste of court time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,798 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I suppose if you are that certain of the outcome and the Garda isn't backing down, you need to go to court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,716 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    If the only evidence against the defendant is the testimony of one witness, and that testimony can be proved to be false, then the defendant will be acquitted.

    In general a prosecution is not brought unless the authorities expect to secure a conviction.

    So, if a prosecution is brought in this case, it means that their view of the situation is not the same as yours. Either they do have other evidence, or they are confident that the testimony of the witness they do have will not be proven to be false.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon




  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Theduke1960


    An adult caution doesn't mean they don't have a case.

    It just means rather than going to court you get let off with a warning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 JackPlanets


    While I agree that in most crimes a prosecution is not brought by the DPP unless they are very sure of securing a conviction, it is worth nothing that in minor stuff sometimes the Gardaí bring a case which, had the DPP reviewed it, would never get near a courtroom.

    Hence why a person should ALWAYS seek the advice of a solicitor with expertise in criminal law.



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