Covid-19 likely to be man made

The Nal · 21-12-2022 9:18am

Are people still waffling on about vaccine safety in December 2022 with no lockdowns anywhere (sane) really, 14 billion jabs later.

Fourteen BILLION.

King Mob · 21-12-2022 9:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020657#Comment_120020657

They're still trying to vaguely hint that the vaccine is secretly killing millions. But they are aware of how ridiculous this sounds to normal folk so they've been leaning less and less into that belief openly.

We've been repeatedly told that the 6+ million people killed by covid aren't a significant figure. So imagine the numbers of of those 14 billion doses that have to have happened for it to register as an issue for these anti vaxxers.

Cheerful S · 24-12-2022 12:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019582#Comment_120019582

A lie was told. In addition to this quote, Video i posted talks about this. Do you know why the scientists you believe are searching for a missing link when this information is already available?

DirectorKrennic's excellent post highlights the problem with crossover animal theory.

Unfortunately, as part of the research, they inserted what is known as a 'furin cleavage site' into the spike protein to make it more effective at infecting human cells. In labs, you can grow human cells on mice called 'humanized mice' where you then infect the cells to see how a human cell would react. If you don't infect the human cell, you can't determine how it would react. Unfortunately, it seems likely there was some sort of accident which lead to the pandemic. Lab accidents are quite common. No other coronavirus has the 'unique furin cleavage site' that Covid-19 has, thus it isn't a bioweapon, or entirely natural, it was simply an original strain of coronavirus which was made more effective at infecting human cells with modifications made to the spike protein. Even Dr. Raplh Baric who has said it didn't come from the lab said in private emails 'this looks potentially engineered.' This would explain why it is so transmissible..

It was also mentioned in a video I posted.

This furin cleavage site appears to be intended to make it transmittable to humans. it has never been seen before in other cold or flu viruses. It appears that this cleavage sped up the process of infecting humans.

Scientists haven't found the crossover animal yet, but keep the theory alive despite the low likelihood!!

This is most likely a research leak caused by the gain of function research. An experiment involving bats in Wuhan occurred and that experiment leaked, That supported by actual science.,

Dohnjoe · 24-12-2022 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120031142#Comment_120031142

Note the similarities with views on the origins of Ebola:

"During the large Ebola outbreak of 2013–2016, conspiracists used various media platforms to accuse our research group in Sierra Leone of unleashing Ebola virus (EBOV) on the people of West Africa (1). The main argument: EBOV must have leaked from a laboratory run by the Ministry of Health and Sanitation and our group in Kenema, located about 50 miles southwest of the village in Guinea in which EBOV emerged. The virus, so went their rationale, had previously only emerged in Middle African countries, such as the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which is more than 1,500 miles away from West Africa (Fig. 1). Some pundits charged that we were running a bioweapons laboratory funded by the “New World Order” as part of their clandestine efforts to establish a one-world government. Other theorists suggested that we had altered EBOV to make it more infectious—perhaps even airborne."

"In reality, we did not have EBOV in our laboratory and therefore could not have released or engineered it. The NIH funded us to develop countermeasures for Lassa virus, a hemorrhagic fever virus unrelated to EBOV (2). The West African Ebola outbreak showed that viruses can move large distances either via human travelers, commerce, or—sometimes—on the wings of bats."

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2214427119

And why it's unlikely a lab leak was the origin of Covid-19:

"The faulty lab leak narrative leaves out some crucial details. Most lab leak proponents don’t mention that most major Chinese cities have one or more active coronavirus laboratories. The Chinese government established these laboratories after multiple spillovers of the first SARS-CoV in 2002 through 2004, which caused approximately 8,000 cases of severe respiratory disease worldwide and at least 744 deaths. Those who suggest that the pandemic is the result of a lab leak often also note that the closest related bat coronaviruses to SARS-CoV-2 have been found only in southern China or in Laos, about 750 miles away from Wuhan (4) (Fig. 1). They argue that the virus could not have traversed such a distance without causing COVID-19 cases along the way. These comments, however, show an ignorance of some crucial points: the West African EBOV precedent, which showed that viruses can emerge or reemerge large distances from the site of their initial spillover, and the fact that SARS-CoV emerged multiple times in Chinese megacities similar distances from where its closest bat progenitors have been found.

On January 10, 2020, Edward Holmes of the University of Sydney, Australia—working on behalf of a consortium led by Yong-Zhen Zhang of Fudan University, Shanghai, China—became the first person to release the genomic sequence of the novel coronavirus (5). That sequence spurred a flurry of activity by virologists reminiscent of when the first genomic sequence of SARS-CoV was published in 2003 (6). My long-time collaborator William Gallaher and I quickly analyzed the amino acid sequence of the SARS-CoV spike protein. We correctly predicted that the coronavirus spike protein fits the general scaffold of HIV-1 and influenza virus glycoprotein structures (Fig. S1). Likewise, the site for cleavage of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein into its two subunits, S1 and S2, was quickly identified by ourselves and others: It is a furin cleavage site (FCS). Acquisition of a FCS can render a low pathogenicity avian influenza virus increasingly transmissible and highly pathogenic. SARS-CoV accomplishes its high pathogenicity, a 9% case fatality rate, without a FCS at this location. Although the FCS confers increased transmissibility, the level of SARS-CoV-2 pathogenicity—although substantial—does not approach that of SARS-CoV.

In another instance, the newly released SAR-CoV-2 sequence was promptly used to support the possibility of an unnatural origin for SARS-CoV-2. On January 31, 2020, a preprint purported that the SARS-CoV-2 proteins contain unique inserts with an “uncanny similarity” to HIV-1 proteins (7). The clear insinuation was that SARS-CoV-2 had been engineered in a laboratory. The authors of this preprint suggested that some inserts are “related” to the HIV glycoprotein (Gp120) (Fig. 2A). They suggested that another insert from the HIV-1 Group antigen (Gag) created a portion of the FCS. The inserts are short or required insertions for partial alignment and therefore are likely to be present purely by chance. Although this preprint was retracted based on these fundamental flaws, the media firestorm fortified lab leak conspiracists worldwide and intensified suspicion of virologists at the WIV."

It's a very good piece I recommend it to anyone interested.

Cheerful S · 24-12-2022 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120031254#Comment_120031254

The points of the article don't make sense to me. The virus can spread far and wide, and I'm not sure that was even a debate as your information implies. Due to the fact that Covid 19 went global, there is no doubt that the spread was never a conspiracy. There is evidence that NIH did provide funding for gain of function research in China, and this function research messed around bat Coronaviruses in Wuhan. The fact that this research was conducted in the place where the pandemic occurred contributes least to this understand of the virus origins.

This is a very stupid way of covering up what we know about the Wuhan virus laboratory by hiding behind Ebola speculation. We know where Ebola started and how it moved and still have no evidence of how Covid 19 got transferred to a human being at very start.. There no evidence of animal crossover whatsoever.

covid 19, the insertions suggest that the virus was created in a laboratory. It is becoming clear that these insertions are directly targeting human receptor cells. The fact that they found that strongly suggests that a bat virus was manipulated in a lab so that it attacked human cells immediately. Because we do not have evidence of a spreader events outside of Wuhan, we can conclude the virus had evolved to a potent level by the time it hit the wet market.

The spread of Sars took some time among humans, while the opposite was true with Covid 19. When a virus infects one human, its genetic code does not automatically spread to another, it has to do a bit of work to be transferrable.

The furin cleavage site:

Lab leak believers believe this was added in to make it more transferrable to human cells. Viruses or cousins of COVID 19, seem to have a similar code. Covid 19, there a feature there that doesn't belong is called furin cleavage site. However, the RNA appears to have added on rather than evolved on its own over time.

Cheerful S · 24-12-2022 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019151#Comment_120019151

There has been no identification of the Covid 19 furin cleavage site in any species other than humans. This feature is not found in sars like coronaviruses. Completely unique to covid 19.

Although they thought they had recovered the identifiable animal Pangolin, they discovered that the virus matched only 90 percent, there was no furin cleavage site, and the mammal had not been sold in wet markets in Wuhan.

Their search continues for species that they believe may have this furin cleavage site. Those who still think could not have come from a lab.

Dohnjoe · 24-12-2022 4:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120031523#Comment_120031523

The points of the article don't make sense to me. The virus can spread far and wide, and I'm not sure that was even a debate as your information implies. Due to the fact that Covid 19 went global, there is no doubt that the spread was never a conspiracy.

Author was talking about the original origin of the virus there. Not the global spread after.

This is a very stupid way of covering up what we know about the Wuhan virus laboratory by hiding behind Ebola speculation.

It's not "Ebola speculation". He's pointing out that because Ebola originated near a place with a lab, immediately there were "lab leak" theories. Just based on proximity. Author goes into detail about that.

"Lab leak believers"

This is the problem, people develop a belief rather than looking at all arguments, theories, evidence, and the consensus of experts on the matter. Which currently leans (quite heavily) to zoonotic link rather than accidental lab leak.

Cheerful S · 25-12-2022 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120031683#Comment_120031683

That's wrong, I've already explained it to you. Covid 19's furin cleavage site has never been detected in any other Sar Covid related virus.

In order for this bat virus to become a human spreader virus, it had to have that furin cleavage site. That why people who are honest believe it came from a lab. There is inserted add on furin cleavage site. Fact this is unique furin cleavage site makes the event all more interesting.

With the outbreak occurring in Wuhan, where this gain of function laboratory was located, you have pretty much a conclusive case.,

Spudman_20000 · 27-02-2023 10:16am

U.S. Energy Department has concluded that the Covid pandemic most likely arose from a laboratory leak, although it has made its judgment with “low confidence”.

"The FBI previously came to the conclusion that the pandemic was likely the result of a lab leak in 2021 with “moderate confidence” and still holds to this view."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a

Edit: Guardian link to the same story, as WSJ requires a subscription:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/26/covid-virus-likely-laboratory-leak-us-energy-department

robinph · 27-02-2023 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120292971#Comment_120292971

What has that got to do with it being man made?

Spudman_20000 · 27-02-2023 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294467#Comment_120294467

I suppose it depends on what type of research was being carried out in the Wuhan lab.

silliussoddius · 28-02-2023 4:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294550#Comment_120294550

And low confidence.

Strumms · 28-02-2023 5:04am

Look at the location of the laboratory where the virus was stored in Wuhan.

you couldn’t get a more built up, high density mixed residential and business area.

you’d have to question the sort of individuals who carried out the risk assessment that it would be a clever idea to locate such a facility there.

should have been out in the countryside, where anything leaking / escaping would not have a global domino disaster effect.

incompetence and complacency are dangerous bedfellows.

Ok the virus as kicked off the pandemic may have not originated there, but it may. The bat theory ? Ok, I dunno.

The WHO have decreed that a lab leak as the origin is unlikely… but that very same report was compiled with Chinese assistance and cooperation. China have now said that they will play no part with assisting a second investigation which the WHO want.

So the US having further investigated say that the origin according Department of Energy’s updated report on origins of this coronavirus pandemic are ‘most likely’ from a lab leak… Wuhan…

you won’t get any straight answers from China. So if you can’t get a simple confirmation as to where it originated, getting told it’s man made won’t be happening.

probably be years until a verifiable truth is made public and official.

28-02-2023 1:05pm

It's funny how a certain cohort on the internet are now lauding the U.S. Energy Department as the paragon of truth. I thought they didn't trust anyone except 4chan users and nutters with youtube channels.

astrofool · 28-02-2023 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120296383#Comment_120296383

The facility was there because Wuhan is a place where new virus emerge due to bats and other local fauna.

It's like a weather station being placed where tornadoes happen and then blaming the station when a tornado hits.

FYI, it's very possible SARS-COV2 leaked from a lab that was studying new virus, very unlikely it was man made (our tech isn't that advanced yet).

SafeSurfer · 02-03-2023 8:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299496#Comment_120299496

Amazing. Yet they brought samples of bat coronavirus from 1800km away to work on.

astrofool · 02-03-2023 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306897#Comment_120306897

You do understand that not all bat caves are near Wuhan, just a lot of them....

SafeSurfer · 03-03-2023 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120307103#Comment_120307103

Yes, I understand that very well. Yunnan province, 1800 km from Wuhan is where Sars was traced to and where the nearest known relation of Covid 19 came from.

Yunan province, not Hubei province.

Are you seriously arguing

“The facility was there because Wuhan is a place where new virus emerge due to bats and other local fauna.”

What new viruses have emerged in Wuhan? Or did you just make that up?

astrofool · 03-03-2023 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310795#Comment_120310795

Unsure if serious, but here's studies on both bats and other virus that emerged in Hubei province:

Origin and cross-species transmission of bat coronaviruses in China | Nature Communications

Leptospira in Bats from Hubei Province, China, 2018 - PubMed (nih.gov)

Is your conjecture that virus don't emerge in Wuhan or Hubei province? Because there is oodles of evidence to the contrary (let alone the origin of the lab there from 1956 which seems a very long term plan from the depths of the Chinese cultural revolution).

You are referencing a lot of the misinformation from other sites around the origin and seems that seem true but aren't.

Wuhan is also home to the Chinese CDC (not to be confused with the lab, as it has been sponsored by the Gates foundation which is another common theory spouted around COVID).

SafeSurfer · 03-03-2023 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310886#Comment_120310886

Did your first link mention Hubei province or did I miss it?

Your second is a link about Leptospira, a bacteria not a virus

Above a list of bat caves and roosts in China. Province 11 on map is Hubei. Hubei has 1, possibly 2 sites.

Do you have any evidence that the reason the Wuhan Institute of Virology is based in Wuhan is “because Wuhan is a place where new virus emerge due to bats and other local fauna.”

Also FYI 1956 was not “ the depths of the Chinese Cultural Revolution”. It started a decade later.

astrofool · 03-03-2023 10:29pm

Well let's mark Wuhan on the map then (from the conservation of bats paper you failed to link: ORX1100150 526..531 (cambridge.org))

You can answer what the nearest population centre is in that area of China and where is most likely to have virus passed from animals to humans and be optimal for study.

While I was being facetious about planning of the virology clinic from 1956, it was more that if China was planning something nefarious that far ahead, it would likely have been during the cultural revolution and certainly not in 2019 over half a century after the lab started to exist.

You could of course argue that Shanghai is a better place for an institute given the clusters nearby and massive human population.

Virology institute launches in Shanghai - Chinadaily.com.cn

Uh oh, come 2085, we better watch out.

Point still stands, the Wuhan Virology Institute is in that location due to the emergence of novel virus in that location, it does not cause them. It could of course have leaked a virus it was studying, but there is low confidence of that due to the number of naturally occurring novel virus in the area.

SafeSurfer · 03-03-2023 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311148#Comment_120311148

So no evidence then, just doubling down and your error was just facetiousness.

And the virus that could have possibly leaked from the lab was most closely related to one brought to the lab from 1800km away.

Okey Dokey.

To use your analogy about weather stations tracking tornadoes, would such a weather station be best located in Texas or New Jersey?

astrofool · 03-03-2023 10:53pm

I would also add that I haven't studied the Shanghai fauna populations and if many novel virus emerge in that area, it was just a funny coincidence that theorists in 2085 can jump on.

What I do know is that there are many novel virus discovered in Wuhan every year due to the combination of local fauna, local environment, human interaction in those areas and the wet markets that bring multiple species close together creating a petri dish for zoonotic transmission. Which is also why China has been trying to clamp down on wet markets.

Of the many novel virus discovered in Wuhan, one happened to be COVID, the others are remarked with barely a footnote.

So no evidence then, just doubling down and your error was just facetiousness.

I have noticed that theorists cling and obsess over off topic, off the cuff remarks, something I forget from the other forums and need to remember to be more clear for them, if you re-read the sentence, I do not conflate the founding with the cultural revolution, but that it was founded in 1956 and that the plan hatched during the cultural revolution, which is of course silly as Mao was more concerned with internal dissent then causing lockdowns in 2020).

SafeSurfer · 03-03-2023 11:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311250#Comment_120311250

Making statements without evidence and trying to semantically explain one’s errors is exactly the type of behavior you would be quick to challenge in other posters.

You make further claim

What I do know is that there are many novel virus discovered in Wuhan every year

and again

Of the many novel virus discovered in Wuhan, one happened to be COVID, the others are remarked with barely a footnote.

How many novel viruses are discovered in Wuhan every year?

astrofool · 04-03-2023 12:29am

While it's difficult to look up due to drowning in SARS-COV2 papers, you can look to the near past to find multiple papers on the emerging virus:

EcoHealth Alliance Announces Discovery of New Bat-Origin Virus Impacting Pig Farms in Southern China - EcoHealth Alliance (2018)

New SARS-like virus from bats implicated in China pig die-off | CIDRAP (umn.edu)

Study on Global Coronavirus (2017):

Global patterns in coronavirus diversity | Virus Evolution | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

Multiple Coronavirus catalogued in Hubei (2006)

Prevalence and Genetic Diversity of Coronaviruses in Bats from China | Journal of Virology (asm.org)

You can also look at where BSL-4 labs are located in comparison to virus outbreaks and studies:

Map — Global Biolabs (notice the other lab in Yunnan, another location where novel virus are likely to emerge).

To go further, one would need to look through papers published from the Wuhan institute, which I'm sure you will do before posting any further musings.

SafeSurfer · 04-03-2023 12:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311660#Comment_120311660

Again no evidence for a claim you made a very definite statement on “what I do know is”.

If you can state with certainty that many novel viruses are discovered in Wuhan every year you should be able to state if its

Less than 5?

Less than 10?

More than 100?

I don’t know why you have to look up something that you have already stated that you definitely know.

SafeSurfer · 04-03-2023 12:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311660#Comment_120311660

Thanks for the links dump.

They don’t support your claim that:

What I do know is that there are many novel virus discovered in Wuhan every year due to the combination of local fauna, local environment,

The first link relates to a virus in pigs in Guangdong Province, a thousand kilometres from Wuhan. How did the local fauna and environment in Wuhan result in the discovery of a virus which emerged a thousand kilometres away in Guangdong?

Cheerful S · 04-03-2023 4:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310795#Comment_120310795

It was always assumed that it was from a laboratory because of the evidence. However, because of the shitstorm Trump caused some to back off from their suspicion. China's relationship with the US is not good, so it's only now that these new reports are being released.

The US sent up fighters to shoot balloons down. This panic over balloons only started after Seymour Hersh's story was published. The media went into a frenzy reporting China's airspace invasion.

All linked open your eyes., Developing a new narrative against China.

SafeSurfer · 04-03-2023 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311955#Comment_120311955

Henry IV part 2

busy giddy minds

With foreign quarrels; that action, hence borne out,

May waste the memory of the former days.

Similiar to the accusation that Clinton launched air strikes on Afghanistan and Sudan 72 hours after admitting he lied about having sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.

Dohnjoe · 04-03-2023 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311955#Comment_120311955

To get this straight, you believe Covid was created in a laboratory by the Chinese? It's man-made according to you? (I won't even touch all the Seymour Hersh balloon stuff)

Covid-19 likely to be man made

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