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Italy V Ireland Match thread

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well maybe look at it again -

    Start at 6:41 on the clock, where Bundee has been caught ball watching. He got sucked in towards the ruck where he didn't actually do anything, and now Garbisi is attacking the Irish blindside, with 4 players outside him or coming around the corner behind him, and Lowe on his own effectively. Keenan at this point has to try to accelerate up to help Lowe.

    Bundee's positioning is completely off on this. He's not able to impact Garbisi at all, and isn't there to help on the outside. Lowe reads it badly too, but he's been left badly exposed here by the player defending inside him.

    From then on, Aki has another chance to save the try, but he gets absolutely burned on the outside by the Italian No 8 (funny how lots of people, yourself included have pointed out numerous times Ross Byrne getting burned by a guy who started games on the wing in this 6N, but there isn't as much talk about this scenario where Bundee gets burned by an 8, when he's closer at the point of Cannone receiving the ball).

    You're saying Lowe bit in like it was the difference, but by the time Lowe even had a decision to make, he was facing a 4 v 1 because Bundee got caught twice getting disconnected from the players around him.

    I'm genuinely baffled how anyone could watch that try from start to finish and not recognise it is absolutely on Bundee - his poor decisions, poor positioning and lack of pace.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    of course, not true in the main


    here the build up to the varney try for example. Aki gets sucked into following the dummy runner (no 6) and teh ball is played to the back of the triangle to varney. in the grab here, you can see that lowe is facing a 3 on 1. The call should have been for a drift defense much earlier, but aki has made the decision to cover the 6 and ends up on his heels. Lowe has to gamble and shoot onto the 3rd man in, but varney throws a lovely skip pass and takes lowe out of the equation. With keenan and Byrne in the back field its simple numbers to make the break. Aki actually gets back to get hands on cannone but slips off the tackle. Had he made it Byrne was covering the support and the try could have been prevented.


    heres a different angle just before the pullback. You can see ireland are actually numbered ok, but that Doris is covering the 6 dummy runner. Aki bites in where there was no need. That meant that Lowe had to shoot. You can also see the positioning of ross byrne in teh back field. Its him eventually that gets across to tackle the no 8 Cannone.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    to be fair he was tap tackled on that very last play against italy which took any acceleration off him.

    I do agree that the first chance should have been finished off but if i was picky id be having words with keenan for not taking capuozzo out of the equation. lowe should have had enough there to finish though.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Maurice Grumpy Stitch


    Good post. This is where Ringrose is so good. He reads the game so well that these situations just generally don't occur.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Excellent analysis as ever FTD.

    Refreshing to see facts being given. Some posts here are just conjecture.

    Looking forward to see you back in the Ireland thread



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Conan will not be auditioning for scrum half any time soon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Is this tactic of 13 shooting up set in stone now ?. Bundee did it several times, disrupting their backline even if he misses the tackle, much as GR does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I have to say Aki's biggest weakness was that he played shooter without being able to make a suitable resd that he should play shooter.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wouldn't say it's a tactic necessarily. Ringrose doesn't do it all the time; he chooses the moments judiciously.

    It's obviously a risk - both of dog legs forming with either the 12 inside you or the winger outside you, or of a big miss pass getting past you and creating an overlap out wide which is especially dangerous.

    The goal with it isn't always necessarily to make the hit - it's defending as opposed to tackling, it's to close off options for the opposition and direct them back inside.

    I think it's tailored based on the opposition strengths and what we think they're likely to try to do - but the Italians were very visibly trying to get the ball to the wide channels early and often.

    Really good piece here from back in Sept 2019 on it:




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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Maurice Grumpy Stitch


    Good post but it's not that baffling. People will see what they want/need to see. It's obviously not a coincidence that the one game Ringrose is out and we're playing a scratch centre pairing that our midfield defence goes awry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,198 ✭✭✭✭Crash


    To be fair, when Ringrose does it he doesn't really create a dog leg, he basically leaves the defensive line entirely, the line reorganizes to minimize the gap and move space further out wide - but in doing so he's aggressively shutting down the opportunity to move it wide, at speed.

    Ringrose himself seems to have a great read on when it's worth trying, and where his cover is, but the reset of the line also seems to have a very good sense of when he's going to do it. Neither of which happened with Aki at the weekend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    We didn’t see them play but expecting either of them to be ringrose defensively is also a tough ask.

    You do have a good point tho. I thought there was a distinct lack of pace across 10, 12, and 13.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,179 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    It hasn’t been mentioned much but Henshaw is also a huge loss on defending front. He sets an insane line speed when defending which puts other side under pressure. Also a great reader of game like GR.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    If Byrne had received the ball. He would have got Bruno with it, behind the gainline. Aki should have been aware of that and changed the option. No matter what, the pass wasn’t on and shouldn’t have been given.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, any other time in recent times when Ringrose can't go, Henshaw slots in at thirteen (which is arguably his best position).

    I feel a little with Henshaw that he's missed so much time this season it's almost kind of forgotten how good a player and how impactful he's been for us in recent years. He's a genuinely world class player when at his best, and a huge addition to get back at this crucial point in a Championship.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I agree with this entirely. Henshaw is an incredibly good defender and has a really synced up connection with Ringrose which makes our defensive midfield a destroyer of many opposition attacks. It's up there defensively with Bod And Darcy in terms of how easily they read each other and fill in for one another's shooting. As an attacking player he is really top 3 or 4 at 12/13 in the world. De Allende, Am, Fikou, Ringrose, and a couple of others on the list but Henshaw is fantastic in both positions.



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