Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

@Ikozma , meet @yourdeadwright .....i think you'll get along.

Watching the highlights back.

Trent is absolutely murdering us, both his mistakes were goals on another day.

We have to get him out of there for a while.

Tough to characterise last season as a failure.

I would agree but in the end that's what it was. The two cups were great but the two we really wanted got away.

No I agree with that but my point is *the team* see it as failure internally (it doesn't matter what I think) and this is proven out by this seasons absolute garbage performances.

I think psychologically this team cannot go back to the well again.

Ps the closeness to winning an unprecedented quadruple makes this even worse from the teams perspective IMO. Plus all these seasons of excellence to only have one league and one champions League has to hurt. It's bananas really but your up against a state backed city.

Chelsea lose again, they only have 2 wins in last 10 league games, shocking stuff, at least we're not Chelsea.

Liverpool have 5 wins in last 10, 2 draws, 3 losses, 17 pts, City took 20pts from last 10 for example. And I really felt we should have won last night, the chances we had, the freekick clearance from Henderson, so unlucky .

Wednesday is vital.

Last night wasn't the worst point in the world though the performances the last four games have not really improved much.

Three clean sheets in a row is at least a habit forming.

Blinder indeed

Anyone know what happened Agent Coulson? noticed he is missing around these parts

@Run Forest Run

😂

Ok, lets see what you have got..

Ok.. so you are saying that there has never been a great team in England apart from the Liverpool side of the 70s/80s as no other side has defended the European cup. Or that’s what I'm getting from it anyways. To be great you need back to back wins... To dominate Europe. Is that a fair summary from your previous posts and this?

That's cool, that's where your line is. Totally up to you where you draw your line for "greatness".

However, you do need to take on board the fact that NO SIDE defended the European Cup between 1991 and 2016. Nobody. AND the vast majority of the back to back winners come in the earlier days of the cup.

Real won 5 in a row at the start of the competition in the 50s. Then Benfica had back to back wins in 61 and 62. Inter in 64 & 65. Ajax 3 in row 71 to 73. Bayern Munich 3 in a row 74 to 76. Liverpool 77 and 78. Forrest 79 & 80 and finally AC Milan 89 & 90.

Now looking through the data - either all the "greatest" teams of all time appeared almost one after the other in the 60s and 70s or.... OR it was an easier competition to defend in that era. You can make your call on that.

Real Madrid are the only team to do it in the modern era - so for you that rules out A LOT of teams many others would consider great.

Pep's Barca being the big stand out for me along with the 00s AC and SAF Utd sides. Even 2015 Barca.

Now, are you wrong to hold that opinion - nope.

Is that an opinion that is in an extreme minority - Yes it is.

Personally speaking I have never seen a team control a football match to the level of Pep's Barca. I have not seen any team reach the level of dominance they had of an actual match (maybe Spain of the same era). But your criteria has them below Nottingham Forrest... do you see an issue?

If Pep's Barcelona side are not meeting your criteria for "greatness" but Forrest are then you may.. may just have to look at your criteria.

Not to be too harsh on the Forrest side but they can't hold a candle to that Barca team.

Fergie was manager of Man Utd between 1986 and 2013 with the club banned from Europe for his first 4 seasons. In that period there was ONE successful defense of a European Cup. AC Milan in 89 & 90.

Now, either all the great clubs in Europe could not build a great side in this period OR the level of competition just got far far more competitive.

An admittedly subjective point of view for this next part, but the pool of winners (and looking at the quality of those teams lineups) in the 90s and 00s would suggest that the standard actually just went up across Europe with more varied winners. It seemed to become a more competitive competition during that period.

Fergie won 2 CL's (and a cup winners cup) between 91 and 2013 after the last back to back winner and in that same period that was actually keeping up with most of Europe's top clubs apart from Barca.

English sides also had a notoriously difficult time getting back on track in Europe after then ban. The style and game had moved on so that did cost all of them a couple more years. But still 2 wins in that period is not a massive underachievement that some would like to make it out. It's more like par or just over (Golf terms over being worse).

Barca have 4 wins in that period - 91, 06, 09, 11. Last 2 being the 2 versions of the Pep team.

AC won 3 - 94, 03, 07.

Real won 3 - 98, 00, 02.

Utd won 2 - 99 and 08

Bayern won 2 - 01 and 13.

There are definitely years in there that feel like they got away for Utd - 2000 I think Utd were still the best team in Europe but lost out to a very good Real team after a poor game at home, actually drew 0-0 away in Madrid. The GK was most certainly an issue then and for a few seasons after.

2004 is the one that annoys me the most - it was there for the taking that season.

But such is the joys of cup football. The best team does not always win. But I do feel there could have been a 3rd win in there somewhere.

My point was more they are weaker when compared to the English clubs, like they just can't compete to the levels they could before. Just look at the spending across Europe in the last 5/6/7 seasons. The English spending has dwarfed the rest in Europe outside of Real and Barca(and even that is now happening). PSG also spend but they are a bit of a basket case.

You have massive teams across Europe losing players to Villa, Fulham etc..

There is little doubt that the EPL is the strongest league in the world at the moment from a wealth point of view and manager point of view. Staring to see it become a player point of view as well the last few years.

English sides should be doing better when taking all that into account - the field vs them has never been in their favor this much.

The 4 English teams that go in each year will be among the favorites with the bookies - no other country will send more than 2 who will have a realistic shot at winning it.

The EPL is the top dog now.

Not gonna lie here - that comes across as "I have made my decision and no amount of evidence is gonna change my mind". If you KEEP having to have this debate with many different people then perhaps you need to take a step back and think is it likely many people are wrong or I am wrong...

Yeah subjective use of the word for sure.... BUT you have to admit that if only 2 English teams (same club in Fergie's Utd) wins a CL and PL in the same season in 35+ years then the use of that word to describe them might not actually be using it flippantly.

Across Europe it has only been achieved 28 times in total - winning their domestic league and European cup in the same season. It is special.

Source - https://www.goal.com/en/news/which-teams-champions-league-league-title-double-same-season/mfwn4kdzjoz1uae2sw41gs9g

Hey listen, after all that if you feel your use of the term "great" for teams is still correct. More power to you, but yeah I really cannot get on board with it.

I've made my points but the facts do not stand with you at all once you dig just a little past the surface.

TLDR : Defending the European cup should not be the line for a great team. It is far far more nuanced than that.

Best of luck

His real name is stefan bajčetić so he’s just been really busy with work recently

Oh, how I missed Man United /Liverpool dick waving infesting every thread for the last while, it's great to see it come back with United's relative recent success 🙄

Yeah, but If Liverpool were to play Chelsea tonight, I wouldn't back Liverpool to beat them.

Chelsea will be a major force if they get the right man in, a seriously good squad (albeit missing an out and out goalscorer) and plenty of money to spend. Their main problem is getting that right man in to sort out their current issues.

We won both domestic cups last season and some of our OWN fans refer to that season as a failure

Why the powers that be felt it was ok to go into the season without signing a decent midfielder is frustrating beyond belief.

After seeing all the problems before the World Cup, to still do nothing, is pure negligence.

Ah yeah, There is absolutely a load of bias in my post. And some tounge in cheek and using stats to back up points.

But I'll stand by the 2 statements for sure.

1. English teams are at a level above most of Europe now. With the money in the English game they can't be anything else. So they do have an easier path to European glory as the big English clubs are now what the Spanish were in the 00s. I think the Klopp and Pep teams are great teams. They just happen to play in the same league. But they were for a period anyway, 2 of the 3 maybe 4 best sides in the world. While also because of the shift in power we aren't seeing Real and Barca able to rebuild their sides as quickly as they would have before. In times gone when Barca lost Messi they would have just come to the PL and cherry picked whoever they wanted to replace him. That isn't happening anymore. If this point came across as something else I apologize for not making my thoughts on it clear. English teams are now the ones to beat.
2. It was far easier to win and retain the old European cup.

Here is Liverpool run to the 77 cup final

Vs Man Utds run to the 99 final

On your point about sports science advancement - of course if you plucked a team from 20 years ago into today's game they would be at a disadvantage.

But if you hold that view then every 5-10 years you have a new best team ever as obviously the one with the modern advancements wins.

It's not really a lot of fun.

Man for Man. Talent for talent is how I was comparing the sides. But it is totally subjective so yeah I don't expect an agreement here.

Anyway I'll leave it there as I didn't actually want to drag this out as long. And it is annoying a few posters.

Best of luck in the rest of the season (hopefully ye don't get top4 but do get Europe. Don't want Liverpool being able to focus solely on the league next season)

👍

Imagine the year is 2023 & Hendo & Milner are staring must win games with only 1 midfielder injured ,

In the Fergie Era Rafa made it to the final twice in 3 years with an awful squad ,There's no way it was harder ,

Rafa time is kind of an echo of what is happing this season ,

Rafa hada fantastic 11 & little or nothing after that, a bit like this season ,