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A global recession is on the horizon - please read OP for mod warning

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Dante


    I find it intriguing how broken the whole system is when good news about the economy and employment figures is seen as a crisis that is causing investors to panic and markets to tumble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,625 ✭✭✭brickster69


    You said no sector has collapsed in Europe and i pointed out the fact that most of Europe's fertilizer industry has indeed collapsed and probably a few more sectors may collapse that are energy intensive also if any more energy shocks happen.

    You do seem to be much more concerned about how damaged Russia is than European businesses for some reason, you should become a politician or something.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,978 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The European fertilizer industry not doing so well is a big walk back from some of the quack hysteria and alarmism we've been seeing from certain individuals.

    Actually speaking of fertilizer, something like 75% of the cost is gas, and as gas prices continue to reduce, looks like several plants will reopen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,625 ✭✭✭brickster69


    A lot of uncertainty still Dohnjoe. Imagine if Putin stuck a few sticks of C4 under those Norwegian pipelines to the UK and Germany like he did to his own a few months ago. That would be it wouldn't it, total collapse of everything in two minutes.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    Below is a yield chart predicting it’s still to come. The idea is that various treasury bonds with different timeframes have a relationship to how the market is placing bets on bonds.

    When the relationship is above 0, it means that things are normal, when below it should mean a recession is coming and trading has changed to reflect reduced sentiments.

    There's also a relationship to how banks in the past made money by trading against bond spreads in a process called bond arbitrage as a method of expanding capital liquidity, but that stopped mattering since the 2008 crash and we've spent most of the time in QE. We'll come back to that.

    Basically, not only would the yield curve inversion represent broad investor sentiment and positioning, but also could cause liquidity problems for banks in the past.

    One fun fact is that the economist who created this indicators thinks there's a chance that it could be sending a false signal.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bond-market-recession-indicator-may-be-flashing-false-signal-says-pioneering-yield-curve-researcher-11671560339

    He describes the method basically being that the creation of the signal has changed behavior, reinforcing and creating self-fulfilling prophecies, and that you don't necessarily get from there to a serious recession.

    I also think that QE/QT are a factor. The Fed buying up and now letting bonds roll off/not buying more is influencing the yield, because yield is in part a product of the supply of bonds influencing the auction. Basically, by changing the patterns of the bond market, the Fed has created a circumstance where you can't know if investor sentiment is changing and as such influencing the yield for different bonds at auction, or if it's fluctuation from QE/QT changing the dynamics of the underlying market.

    Where the bank liquidity situation comes in, is that the Fed is doing QT expressly because banks are flush with cash. Bond arbitrage is no longer necessary for banks to remain cash flush, the Fed is serving that purpose now. So one possibly recessionary cause tied to the relationship may no longer matter as much.

    The next question is whether that creates a full recession on its own, or not. No one really knows the answer to that. Truth is we'll only know if a recession doesn't materialize. If one does materialize, the oscillator will continue to be called 100% accurate regardless of whether it was the dog wagging the tail or the tail wagging the dog.

    It is, however, an effective tool for detecting market pullback risk, though, just maybe not a recession or a crash. By the way, other yield curve relationships don't test out as well. There's a little "looking for confirmatory data bias" in this oscillator.

    I hope that makes sense to you, however I suspect it’s way over your head (no offence.)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    Simply put:

    • * If graph goes below 0, it means government short term bonds are paying more interest than long term bonds
    • * This implies the short term bond interest is expected to come down soon (think about this to make sure it makes sense to you. If short term rates are expected to remain high, why would anyone buy long term bonds now, when they could just keep buying short term bonds)
    • * This means the market expects the Fed to decrease interest rates in the short-medium term

    Often this occurs when a recession is coming, because the Fed tends to decrease rates to stimulate consumption. But, it could also just be that we currently have high inflation, which hasn't been the case for most of that graph except the messy but at the beginning. If inflation comes down, interest rates will also likely come down. This is a 2nd reason that the yield curve inverts, unrelated to recession.

    In summary, the graph is showing a rough relation between yield curve inversion and upcoming recession. But that R implies I, doesn't mean I implies R.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Great post. Had to read and re read by to try understanding the content



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,625 ✭✭✭brickster69


    How would article 5 be invoked when the whole world knows Putin blew up the Nordstream pipelines last September ? Surely if Putin did that he would of been sent back to the stone ages by now.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,625 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Money supply the lowest since 2008. The lowest before that was the oil price shock of 1981, probably just a one off.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,625 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Starting to ramp it up quickly with China.They are really becoming hysterical



    US considering to block firms from exporting chips to Huawei.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Its Ok for the west to give Ukraine the unlimited ammunition cheat code but nobody is allowed to arm the other side . China should sanction the US and EU for supplying arms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    To be fair Brickster you've been the one who's been hysterical throughout this whole thread. Reread it, it's all there in your own hysterical words. Ironic really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,625 ✭✭✭brickster69


    France and Spain's CPI ticks up this month against expectations and markets are predicting interest rates will keep raising for this this year at least.


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,978 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Countries are helping Ukraine, a sovereign democratic country, defend itself from unprovoked invasion from a totalitarian power.

    China supplying Russia militarily would put it in the same basket as Russia, North Korea and Iran. An axis of autocratic power. it would be a very serious signal to the rest of the democratic world, and likely it would have economic repercussions in the long term.

    Of course this reality doesn't matter to the "but America" individuals who use their free speech to cheer on authoritarian powers from the safety and comfort of their peaceful democratic countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭amacca




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,904 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    lol, one of the maddest things I have read on here for a good while. I think it is time for a nap as you must have overexerted yourself!



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Antipathetic


    You might have a different opinion if you grew up or knew someone living in the Donbas when they were shelled by Ukrainian forces ( there is video proof of this happening)

    Regardless, I see no problem in allies supplying other allies with stuff they need.

    Don't let the terrorists in Israel win. Please donate to UNRWA now!

    https://donate.unrwa.org/-landing-page/en_EN



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Sy Hersh expose showed US responsible. I don't think he's ever been wrong. Greatest living investigative journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Can you just quit with the propaganda? This is not the war thread.



  • Posts: 2,725 [Deleted User]


    Nah. A certain amount of inflation and rising wages is good for the world.

    Main issue these days is the short-to-medium term need to have more plumbers, electricians, nurses, and care givers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    The guy telling us to grow our own potatoes and prepare for doomsday was far more entertaining.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    What about the people who didn't get a pay rise yet have had their living costs increased and savings value decreased



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    What are your opinions and I won't say predictions but thoughts for the near future global economy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,631 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Well the thread had predicted an economic disaster by Q4, then that was pushed to Q1 'cause Christmas. What now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    I think most are saying a recession Q4 this year and Q1 2024 (at least that is what I predicted and have not changed)



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,978 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I was addressing the post and the barest bit of relevance I could find to this thread. Take your frustrations elsewhere thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,919 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Housing for staff is the biggest issue for employers now. Order books full n no staff to take on more work. Can't see that improving in the short, medium n long term! Still , at least the order books are full.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0301/1359487-business-groups-criticise-lack-of-housing-availability/



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,282 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Please take discussion of Russia to the dedicated thread. If you are banned from that thread do not think you can discuss it elsewhere



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,625 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    The whole carbon credits/off set thing is a total pile of rubbish, it's literally just am accountancy trick



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