ESB eCars

Most Europe including Norway has kWh+min charging. Just FASTNED doesn't, from the largest networks.

It's simply because no resource is infinite and because time based charging guarantees a better resource allocation. That's the reason why it's preferred.

@ELM327 is right. No need to reinvent the wheel - copy Norway and other more advanced EV markets. In policy, in charger layouts, in charging network regulation, in charging pricing etc. The Irish solution has failed (because it doesn't exist and it's not needed).

EDIT: If even the richest of the richest and the most EV-agile and EV-experienced Norway has time-based component in charging pricing that tells you that it's probably right.

No. Simple put a few AC poles in different spaces. No need ever to mix DC and AC

You use the word simple and then propose a solution that's both more complicated and expensive.

Ionity Kill North, VW card would not start the machine no matter what i did, nor did the ionity app - big thank you to the ID4 driver who informedme the VW app worked it, and it worked perfect. Big thanks.

Ofcourse Easy Go, gave me plenty headaches later, there needs to be a more standardised payment menthod.

I still think that's Ecars BS. Think about it logically for a few mins, a 3 phase Zappi costs around €1,115. I know that Ecars don't use Zappis but it's an indication of the cost of the AC chargers they use.

They shouldn't really cost more than €2,500 for those 2x22kw pillars they use

Then there's the connection fee to ESBN which should be €5,820 for a 50kVA business connection according to the ESB site

Then trenching and installation fees, maybe €7,500 say?

So the whole thing should cost around €16k. I seriously doubt they can install a DC charger for that price, probably closer to double that

And that's assuming you don't do any economy of scale, like putting in 6x7kW chargers instead of the pair of 22kW ones to maximise the number of cars taking in kilowatts per site

Well like I've said before, the strategy is only as good as the analysis that went into it

I agree that DC chargers are more profitable in the short term and probably the quickest answer to the public charging pit that Ecars have dug themselves into

I don't agree that AC charging doesn't turn a profit and I think there's plenty of evidence from across Europe that it works when done at scale

I think the way Ecars install them as solitary 22kW pillars is very inefficient and feeds into why they aren't making much money from them

The cynic in me also suspects that Ecars inflated the costs of the chargers to argue for more incentives and also to make DC charging look more attractive by comparison

To be clear, I'm not against DC chargers. I just think they're part of the solution, not the whole solution in and of itself

I think the only thing that makes EVs truly appealing to people without driveways is if they have banks of AC chargers on their street that they can use for overnight charging

Is that some aggregator or reseller?

sorry to ask again, whats the site that user here has for stats on ESB chargers?

You're missing 2 key factors that shouldn't be overlooked

1. ESB Ecars is the same company as ESBN so the €5,820 can be more or less discounted as circular
2. Electric Ireland (also ESB) 24 hr rate is 41c, Ecars rate is 50-57c so there's up to 40% more profit going in to the coffers as opposed to a home charger

This idea that AC isn't profitable is absolute horse manure from ESB. If it was true they would surely have changed them all to DC chargers by now

I think a lot of the reason they aren't profitable was poor planning on Ecars part

Take Dublin City for example, they put a bunch of AC chargers in, said parking was free, DCC said actually parking wasn't free

So now you don't get free parking but at least you get free charging, cool

Then charges for AC come in and all of a sudden nobody is using AC chargers because it's cheaper to charge at home

Or taking any other town, they're only using the AC for a couple of hours to take advantage of free parking, so the number of kWh sold doesn't justify the cost of the charger

This is probably down to the fact that EVs are more popular with drivers who have a home charger already

So my argument is that instead of resigning AC to unprofitable, perhaps Ecars should be looking to tap the large market of potential drivers out there who do not have a driveway

And I think that by working at scale they could make AC look more profitable in the long term.

For example, they could carry out enablement works on entire streets to put in ducting and extra metering for 7kW AC chargers. Then maybe do a deal with permit holders that they can request a charger gets installed.

That could probably be funded by the local authority public charging grants

You could also make the requestor pay a fee to have a charger installed, which immediately brings the installation cost down. It'd still be a "public" charger since the spaces in most areas aren't reserved and you'd need some kind of payment system, but you'd probably need something to stop everyone requesting a charger straight away

There could be discounts for permit holders to charge at night since that'll encourage better use of the grid

So to some degree, I agree with @liamog that AC is best used as a value adder for a business, but it doesn't have to be a coat adder at the same time. And the Dublin EV charging strategy was commissioned by the councils, so it does make sense to find the best approach for the residents of the city

If you assume these figures are correct, which I'd question, it costs ESB €39,600 to install and maintain a unit over 20 years and they make 10c profit per unit of electricity

Per year they need to make €1,980 before turning a profit

At 10c/unit that equates to 19,800 units or 9,900 units per plug.

Each plug delivers 7kW or 7kWh/h so needs to be used for 1,415 hours per year to turn a profit

24 hrs = 60 days - 16.5% time in use

8 hrs = 176 days - 48% time in use

Break even is 3.87hrs of daily use or 16.12% of time in use

I think that's actually a decent model, my only major concern would be if there's a flood of demand and suddenly it's akin to a HSE waiting list

There'd need to be some control of some kind, perhaps requesting proof of ownership of an EV or PHEV so that people aren't just requesting chargers just for the sake of it