Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Must love hardship · 01-03-2023 11:37pm

Brad Thorn is out of Contract with Queensland Reds I believe. Might be an option although I'm not sure how the make up of the coaching ticket would look. Would be very forward orientated with Cullen, Thorn, mcbride and o'brien.

Personally I'd love to see Sexton take up a coaching role. Seems a natural coach and by all accounts his brother Mark is highly thought of as a young coach at connacht and ireland u20's level.

Dubinusa · 02-03-2023 2:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303771#Comment_120303771

I'd like to see Sexton also. Who knows what he's going to do next?

He's been unbelievable for both Ireland and Leinster.

pickarooney · 02-03-2023 6:47am

IIRC Sexton has been on work experience in some company this last while and has no intention of continuing with rugby in any capacity

arsebiscuits1 · 02-03-2023 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120302973#Comment_120302973

Undoubtedly the squad wasn't as strong. But MOC never helped himself and was probably the chief architect in why the players ability was so lacking

He was a poor selector and he had no idea how to get the best out of his squad.

Signing the likes of Mick McGrath, Darragh Fanning and Lote Tuquiri on the wings was just insanity compared to what was available at the time.

In a 10 he had genuine top class in Jimmy Gopperth whom he hadn't a clue how to get the best of constantly flip flopping between him and Madigan.

He had no room for Quinn Roux opting to cart him off to Connacht whilst playing Ben Marshall and Tom Denton.

The most damning thing I found that says everything we need to know about him as a selector and manager. A quick scan through the reports from his time shows every other game had at least one bench player not used. How often does that actually happen? FFS at home to Zebre and he doesn't even bring Cathal Marsh off the bench.

The next week we kick points for a draw against Ospreys away and he leaves FIVE (!!!) players on the bench.

The man got dealt a tricky hand but he was a stain on Leinsters history. No other way of looking at it in my mind

Must love hardship · 02-03-2023 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304145#Comment_120304145

Yeah I believe he does some work with Ardagh group.

Coaching isn't for everyone and hard with job uncertainty and potentially having to move country with a young family..

I'm sure he will make the best decision for him and his family.

Former Former Former · 02-03-2023 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304847#Comment_120304847

Signing the likes of Mick McGrath, Darragh Fanning and Lote Tuquiri on the wings was just insanity compared to what was available at the time.

Signing the likes of Mick McGrath and Darragh Fanning was a reflection of what was available at the time. It's not like he ever picked those guys ahead of Luke Fitzgerald or Dave Kearney, he was picking them ahead of the pretty rubbish academy graduates of the time. Who was he overlooking? Sam Coghlan-Murray, Darren Hudson, Andrew Boyle?

Tuqiri was here for a couple of months and played a handful of games. It could have been a great signing, didn't work out, it happens. I don't give a shyte if he left Cathal Marsh on the bench, Marsh wasn't very good, and that's my point. The squad he inheirited was a massive step down in quality, experience and leadership from what Joe had - and a lot of that is on Joe tbh.

As for Gopperth/Madigan - Gopperth was very much the first choice. It's funny, at the time MOC copped a load of flak for holding back Madigan's development, picking a journeyman over a talented young Irish guy etc etc. Now he's getting flak for not having given Madigan even less game-time.

It's nearly a decade and people are still so angry with MOC. It didn't work out but he's not a "stain on Leinster's history". Time to move on lads.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 02-03-2023 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304847#Comment_120304847

MOC had a strong belief that you needed to keep a substitute in case of an injury that's not front row head or blood.

Joe used to keep a substitute til 77 minutes or so for the same reason.

Must love hardship · 02-03-2023 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305085#Comment_120305085

Leinster still do /did that late sub. Look at last years h cup final. Joe mccarthy and mcgrath got 5 minutes and frawley got none. Larochelle on the other side emptied the bench and Brough on all bar 1 sub before the 68 minute

Serbian · 02-03-2023 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305312#Comment_120305312

We didn't use three substitutions for the European Cup final in Bilbao — Rhys Ruddock, Joey Carbery and Rory O'Loughlin left sitting on the bench. Interestingly, Racing didn't use two of their own substitutions in that game, probably more a reflection that that game was in the balance right up until the end.

Dubinusa · 02-03-2023 3:32pm

Since the MOC era, the squad is deeper, better and appears to be focused. MOC did have a substantially weaker squad. He was unable to do much with them and remember Schmidt held a news conference lambasting him for the performance while the 6nations was being played.

MOC was a poor manager, imo.

arsebiscuits1 · 02-03-2023 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305063#Comment_120305063

Cian Kelleher was top scorer in the B and I cup in 2014-15. Made zero appearances under MOC. Sam Coughlan Murray was also a mainstay in the A team as a member of the academy.

Other players who got zero minutes for the senior side under MOCs tenure but did get minutes in the A comp:

Garry Ringrose
Tadgh Beirne
Adam Byrne
Tom Farrell
Gavin Thornbury

Yes they required development and yes it's not black and white about ability and environment. But giving these players zero look in was a stone cold miss and MOC is responsible for it.

You disparage Sam Coughlan-Murray especially. He eventually didn't make the grade at the highest level but he was as good an option as a mid range AIL player that was signed ahead of him.

And let's not kid ourselves. Perhaps the quality of the aforementioned players wasn't huge at the time. But neither was the quality of the league. Treviso and Zebre weren't near the required standard, same with Dragons, Cardiff and Edinburgh to a lesser extent.

But as you say it's nearly 10 years ago. It's not something I lose sleep over.

But he was a stain on Leinster and set us back a few seasons

02-03-2023 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305063#Comment_120305063

I was sympathetic to MOC up to a point but some of the losses we're against teams that on paper and on running form were a lot worse than us and I fully agree on Madigan / Gopperth. Gopperths done an awful lot more since.

I don't really remember Mick McGrath having much impact for us, I do remember .ak being super excited about him though. Fanning actually had a few decent performances for us and I think we should be pretty grateful for that.

Tuqiri could have been a tidy bit of business but he was constantly at the doctors.

Dubinusa · 02-03-2023 9:03pm

We were quiet poor during that period. I would say that M.O.C was a very poor appointment.

Neil3030 · 03-03-2023 12:31am

Matt O'Connor was Leinster's best ever coach and should 100% take over from Stuart Lancaster.

Faugheen · 03-03-2023 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305806#Comment_120305806

Sam Coghlan-Murray didn't even become a 'mid-range' AIL player and never reached the level of Mick McGrath.

Dubinusa · 03-03-2023 3:37am

How would M.O.C approach this clash v Edinburgh? Hmmmm

Rigor Mortis · 03-03-2023 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308023#Comment_120308023

What would Brian Boitano do?

arsebiscuits1 · 03-03-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120307858#Comment_120307858

Eh? Still togging out for Terenure who've had a phenomenal couple of seasons appearing in last years final and looks on course to have another one.

Either way I'm not getting into semantics like that.

MOC actively ignored the academy and missed out on boatloads of potential favouring older average players whose development had either plateaued or headed downwards.

That is the point I am making.

Former Former Former · 03-03-2023 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308717#Comment_120308717

But not one of the players he ignored went on to prove him wrong. I guess you could make an argument for Cian Kelleher but it's hardly a damning indictment.

Tadhg Beirne jumps out from that list, but don't forget, he was given a pro contract after MOC was gone - and still wasn't kept, and I don't remember anyone being too put out at the time. Thornbury the same IIRC.

Hanging MOC for not playing Ringrose while the guy was still lining out for Ireland U20s is a bit harsh.

Josh van der Flier - first caps under MOC, aged 21. Ed Byrne, age 20. Jack Conan, age 20. Tadhg Furlong, age 21. Dan Leavy, age 20. Plenty of really good players got their break, plenty of not-so-great ones didn't.

We missed out on "boatloads of players" - I'm not seeing it tbh.

Former Former Former · 03-03-2023 1:03pm

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Ciarán Frawley (60)

14. Jordan Larmour (84)

13. Liam Turner (14)

12. Jamie Osborne (30)

11. Dave Kearney (178)

10. Harry Byrne (44)

9. Luke McGrath (188)

1. Michael Milne (26)

2. John McKee (13)

3. Michael Ala’alatoa (40)

4. Ross Molony (156)

5. Jason Jenkins (10)

6. Rhys Ruddock (218) CAPTAIN

7. Scott Penny (51)

8. Max Deegan (92)

16. Lee Barron (3)

17. Jack Boyle (1)

18. Thomas Clarkson (23)

19. Brian Deeny (9)

20. Will Connors (31)

21. Nick McCarthy (57)

22. Charlie Tector (4)

23. Rob Russell (14)

Former Former Former · 03-03-2023 1:04pm

Great to see Frawley back

Clegg · 03-03-2023 1:06pm

Delighted to see Frawley back. Thought he'd be a while longer to return. That's a pretty strong team overall and one that is needed. Edinburgh away is tricky.

I thought Henshaw may have been given 40 minutes as a run out before the Ireland game.

crisco10 · 03-03-2023 1:12pm

Havent seen Edinburgh team, but I'd be hopeful that team can do a job on the road.

awec · 03-03-2023 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308953#Comment_120308953

Edinburgh are pretty garbage, it's not tricky.

They've played 7 home games and lost 4 of them, and have lost every game against a team in the top half of the table. They just got pumped by the Scarlets who are sitting 14th in the table.

Leinster will win this handily.

sydthebeat · 03-03-2023 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308974#Comment_120308974

FORWARDS

BACKS

EMILIANO BOFFELLI

SUBS

DAVE CHERRY

JACK BLAIN

ELLIOT MILLAR-MILLS

JAMIE HODGSON

NICK HAINING

CHARLIE SHIEL

JACO VAN DER WALT

CHRIS DEAN

Interested Observer · 03-03-2023 1:26pm

Never really thought about it before (and yes it is pretty obvious) but Ross moving up to international level opens up a lot more gametime at 10 for Harry and potentially Frawley. Good for Leinster all round, Ross gets gametime at elite level and the guys below him just get to play more.

arsebiscuits1 · 03-03-2023 1:41pm

Watson might shorten the odds a point or 2.

Surprisingly only 8 points favourites.

pickarooney · 03-03-2023 1:46pm

Two good hookers, a few very good backs, Mata and Watson. The guts of a strong side there but they haven't been clocking at all of late.

sydthebeat · 03-03-2023 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309102#Comment_120309102

it was -10 before the Edinburgh team was named.

i still think leinster will exceed that. Whereas edinburgh have the bigger profile names they are much poorly coached. Blair is ok but im not convinced by the team he has around him.

Faugheen · 03-03-2023 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308717#Comment_120308717

You don't follow Terenure at all, do you? Their success has nothing to do with him as he's barely in the squad, never mind starting.

As I've said, he's never been as good a player as Mick McGrath ever was.

You can make the general point about MOC ignoring the academy, but Sam Coghlan Murray is not the one. Mick McGrath was a better player back then, and SMC has never reached McGraths level now.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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