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Picard 3x03- 'Seventeen Seconds' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

  • 02-03-2023 7:51am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭


    Picard 3x03- 'Seventeen Seconds' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers 



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,395 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    An ok episode, some fun stuff in there. Nice to see the changelings back - hopefully they're used well going forward.

    Really did a number on Beverly's character though, comes across extremely badly. Her reasoning for not telling Picard about his son is very weak - especially considering she threw him into a life of danger doing black market smuggling etc anyway. Stewart's performances have been a wee bit ropey in the season so far (purely due to age), but he was excellent in that scene with something meaty to get his teeth into.

    The whole portal device element seems totally pointless... like, a single quantum - or even photon - torpedo would've done much more damage. And the shrike just seems to be using it as a toy to play with the Titan - they could've disabled, or destroyed them many times over at this stage if they were so inclined. It's like one of the writers had just been procrastinating playing Portal, and decided to lift it exactly and throw it into the "insert thing here" space up on the whiteboard.

    Rafi's still a struggle, though Worf was kinda fun (if a bit over the top). The pacing is starting to drag a bit though, we're 3 hours in now and still in that first nebula, in that same first conflict - one episode could have gotten us to the point we're at now if they weren't dragging things out.

    Also really not sure I really buy that last exchange between Riker and Picard. Picard gave his suggestion, it was Riker's decision to act on it and give the order. And then he banishes Picard from the bridge in full melodramatic style when it doesn't work out?



  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭eadrom


    Pretty good, not great, though I'm still really enjoying the series overall.

    Rafi still a real low point and it's a pity Worf has to play against her.

    Picard and Beverly scenes were good and it's just great to be getting some of the 20 years in-between filled in. Whether it's great, good, or just alright, it's certainly more interesting than the last two seasons. Not telling Picard about his son is a bit of a stretch though alright, but sure.

    Also agreed with @~Rebel~, that last scene with Picard and Riker, and Riker's attitude toward Picard throughout really, seemed a little uncharacteristically harsh.

    Cool to have the changelings back, for some reason I wasn't expecting that. Although I often think they're just too powerful an enemy to be honest. Like why stop at impersonating a lowly gold-top, why not do Capt. Shaw? Or Picard for that mater?

    Spoiler in case anyone hasn't seen the early teaser trailer from a couple months ago:

    I think it's a pity now that they've shown Lore in the promotional material. I'd been anticipating his reveal in this episode and now I'm still waiting. I'm guessing that's what was stolen from Daystrom?

    Hopefully we'll find out in the next episode. Annoying to be waiting for a "reveal" of something already shown to be coming, and feeling like I know something that the characters are still oblivious to. I guess that's the danger of watching trailers.

    Also, Titan is growing on me. Good looking ship.

    Frakes directed this one, too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,643 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    An OK episode. Yes they really ate dragging out them being in the whatever it is that looks like a nebula.

    I thought that last scene with them hitting themselves with there own weapons was hilarous.


    I also do not agree with them last scenes between Picard and Riker. Riker made the ultimate decision but Picard did put a lot of pressure on him.


    I think the Shrike was just enjoying messing with the Titan.


    Cool to have the changelings back. Really was not expecting that.


    I too agree again about the Raffi scenes been hard to watch but these were a bit easier with Worf there. I must say Worf has changed a lot and for the better too. Not sure I like his rather bland choice of clothing do.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,643 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    The whole portal device element seems totally pointless... like, a single quantum - or even photon - torpedo would've done much more damage. And the shrike just seems to be using it as a toy to play with the Titan - they could've disabled, or destroyed them many times over at this stage if they were so inclined.

    Agreed she could have severly disabled the Titan and gotten Jack Crusher without all the messing around.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭pah


    My frame of reference here is the first 2 seasons and in that regard I think they are knocking it out of the park so far



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭corkie




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,688 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    Well, I'd say my bit of speculation about that random ensign was about 66% right.

    I quite liked it, though there's issues. There's simultaneously a significant advancement to the plot, but also very little in other ways. They're still in the nebula, but the big bad is finally revealed. In effect, this is both Picard season 3 and DS9 season 8.

    My own interpretation of the Riker/Picard clash, is that Riker is now the more mature and responsible captain, and the legendary Picard called it wrong. The student has become the master kind of thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,395 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Yeah, sure this is it... I have a lot of criticisms of it, and yet at the same time it's exceeding my unbelievably low expectations, so I come out of each episode with a net positive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Damn that got pretty intense at the end! Like between Riker and Picard. What I really liked about the whole episode was how it was shaped to be all about leadership and the smallest of differences in it!


    Anyway, Raffi to be throwing stuff at Worf while he reads out poetry by the end of the season maybe? 😁 Certainly had that look about them a few times and Worf was sounding a bit poetic 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Thought it was a great episode but damn why do they have to keep cutting to Raffi - save it for one whole episode we can all skip



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    Small bit of a drag and I found Picard and Crusher's (B) conversation a bit overwrought, like how many assasination attempts in a week??

    As with the previous episodes Picard and Riker are fantastic, and I absolutely loved the slight look of disgust when Picard realised Shaw had made Riker captain over him. That tension between the two of them is quite nice, it's natural, and it shows that the main characters are human with human flaws. Without it having to be literally explained by a character on screen.

    I found the scenes with Raffi and Worf a bit jarring, it broke the tension and the tone change was a bit much. And that torture scene with Raffi did the character absolutely no favours whatsoever.

    Fine, decent enough and moves the story forward a bit. As long as this place setting comes along quick enough happy out.

    Wonder what they stole from Daystrom....like they're promising an awful lot here, changelings, the TNG crew, Lore, massive gravity well...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I felt this was a much better episode than the last one.

    I thought the scene between Picard and Crusher was very well done. Both had very valid points. We also got a bit more info on Picard during the in-between years.

    I am liking Captain Shaw more and more, I see him less as Captain D1ickhead.

    Changelings were unexpected but an interesting plot usage. I like it.

    Worf is awesome. Like an elder guardian. Still a warrior at heart, but the knowledge and experience of when to use it. And his ultimate weapon is to somehow make Raffi, less likely to suck.

    Cat and Mouse chase was fun.

    Portal weapon was interesting, funny how to sent back the torpedoes. I expect it to be part of some lockbox on STO.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,052 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Good to see the Changelings back. Nice reference to Odo as well from Worf.

    That last scene between Picard and Riker though is just very out of character - both from a professional perspective (you don't argue like that in front of the crew, and you certainly don't tell them they're all dead!), but Will has basically been completely behind Picard up until this point - suddenly he's going to throw him off the bridge??

    Raffi continues to be the weak point of the series.. Not sure why she wasn't just written out. Worf is probably closest to the character we remember though in terms of mannerisms and his development. He was never your typical Klingon and learned to value his human upbringing and mature through the 2 series he was in. It seems probably the most natural path (with the exception of Riker perhaps) to where he is now.

    I don't buy Beverly's reasoning for cutting Picard out of his son's life at all. She knew the man better than anyone else and how she decides he just lives too dangerous a lifestyle after what.. 15+ years serving together is nonsense! Especially because she would have known how affected he was by the death of Rene and Robert, or the loss of his 'family' from the Inner Light etc - all things that helped him grow as well.

    But, it's still a lot more like the TNG followup we should have had all along. From what I've seen from YouTubers who've watched the whole thing, it should start really picking up next week.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 5,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Optimus Prime


    Was not expediting changelings ! I thought they where all going to be holograms.


    Riker is clearly the changing though right ?? He was way off the last few scenes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly



    Well there was theories re the tie in to DS9


    Ohh and now we know its those changelings does it tie in to S2...wormhole...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭Evade


    I liked the scene with Picard and Beverly. Her having already lost a husband and a son (as farcascshe knows at least) makes it understandable and it would have been very easy for the writers to make her right just because but there was some nuance to it.

    Shaw putting Riker in charge to get them out of the mess he caused was a little contrived but he's in the big chair now so I'll allow it. The change in the Picard Riker's dynamic was fun. Before Picard was cautious (mostly) and Riker was the more brash now they've switched roles. I think the end was a little overdone though even if Number One Picard could have done with a refresher on the etiquette of question the captain's orders. And there was some real (intentional?) irony in Riker pulling an "I'm the captain" after the first episode's events.

    Geordi's going to be at Daystrom isn't he? I don't think Lore is the secret weapon that was stolen, I think he'll be at Datystrom and knows something about it so he'll have to tag along.

    I wouldn't have thought Changelings but let's see where it goes. Worf seemed kind of surprised he vaporised it. It's nice to have Worfield back.

    They're still trying to tell that Raffi is important/valuable/etc without showing it.

    The shakey cam in the conversation scenes is annoying.

    I think the 10 hour movie thing is showing up a lot of pacing issues when it's all done a re-cut would be nice.

    I'm a bit surprised at how much I like Mica Burton's character (despite the fact they forgot Geordi is a good pilot in his own right). I was prepared to hate her because she was really annoying when she was a presenter at Roosterteeth but she's fine in this. Maybe it's just her real personality and it was five years ago when she left so she could have changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭The_Wanderer


    Ashlei Sharpe Chestnut plays Sidney LaForge, not Mica Burton.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    While still better than the first two seasons there are more holes appearing. Raffi needs to brush up on the Dominon war a bit. I suspect she might have been alive when, you know, the federation faced defeat. As others have said Riker's reaction to a situation where, in agreement with Picard, they had no other option was ridiculous. I do like the idea of the changelings being back but I also worry it might become overused to explain things. Are we going to discover that Beverley is still lying and Jack is actually a changeling that has left the link to stop this terrorist group or a changeling she found and raised and stayed away for 20 years to protect?

    Some worrying signs of dogy writing this episode but they have a get out clause for almost any odd character behaviours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭eadrom


    Interesting. Looks like Mica Burton does have a season 3 credit though, according to her Wiki page, as “Ensign Alandra La Forge”. I guess we haven’t seen them yet?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica_Burton



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭Evade


    That might explain it then.

    I'd read that Mica was playing his daughter and just assumed she looked different than I remember. Accidental racism avoided.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭The_Wanderer


    La'Forge's other daughter (played by Mica) has yet to appear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭ItHurtsWhenIP


    I agree this nebula storyline is dragging the whole thing out for far too long. 🥱

    I've only watched the episode once, but wan't there a passing mention of something biological in the nebula? Could there be a critter in there that might save the Titan?

    I think the command transfer was understandable. Picard is retired from star fleet and so has no authority there any longer. Riker, on the other hand, is still on active duty, so the computer would recognise his authority ... the fact he was previously captain of the ship may also be relevant.

    Now bear with me here ... That final dialogue between Picard and Riker ... the way Picard was talking seemed off to me, so my brain went there ... I think that was the changeling. 🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    That defeatist look on Picard's face when told to shut the f*ck up was very telling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭Evade


    Also, three episodes in and it hasn't **** itself yet. Is this a Picard record?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,062 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I think Raffi's obliviousness was just shoehorning in some exposition for people who've seen TNG but haven't seen DS9.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,668 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭corkie


    The ex-Borg taking Sidney under her wing is Seven's attempt to help Ensign La Forge escape the shadow of her legendary father, Commodore Geordi La Forge (LeVar Burton), as well as Sidney's sister, Ensign Alandra La Forge (Mica Burton), who became an engineer like their father.

    We haven't met the sister yet, plus no credit on IMDb yet? Alias.

    • Michaela J. Burton
    • Michaela Jean Burton
    • Michaela Burton




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,765 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The episode itself didn't have much going on but I really like the changelings as bad guys. It's exactly the kind of post Bermantrek politics I was looking for (I just want to know the situation in the universe). Why they are after Picard could last minute scupper this wide arcing grown up story though.

    As others said Crushers reason to hide her son is bollix because she sent him to constant danger. I am starting to like him though.

    Despite Word being a big part of later DS9 I always forget he was in it so when he mentioned a changeling friend my heart jumped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭corkie


    @ilovesmybrick I found the scenes with Raffi and Worf a bit jarring, it broke the tension and the tone change was a bit much. And that torture scene with Raffi did the character absolutely no favours whatsoever.


    @fritzelly keep cutting to Raffi - save it for one whole episode we can all skip


    @_Kaiser_ Raffi continues to be the weak point of the series.. Not sure why she wasn't just written out.


    @breezy1985 Despite Word WORF being a big part of later DS9


    Rumor doing the rounds, another series no body has yet asked for? : -




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly




  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭eadrom




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,471 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I'm guessing the fact they mentioned the bio part of the nebula repeatedly means it'll come into play.

    If they want Jack, are they going to rescue him from the gravity well?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick


    Bugger, I was only thinking today that Shaw is growing with me, and if they were going for a spin off, and the character goes well, that would be a great way to move Trek forward with a pass off from the TNG crew to Shaw and Seven on their own exploration mission in the 25th century. But I also thought Rios was a new character that had potential, so there we go...



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Absolutely. My point being they could have expositioned it a lot better. Poor old raffi isn't well liked and the writing for her hasn't helped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭pah



    I don't agree, Crusher said she could figure out how to protect her son from danger just not how to protect his son. It seems that he went to school long enough in London and when he was old enough she told him about Picard. There is no suggestion she was flying him around the galaxy in any danger as a kid. As a grown man he then made his own choices about what kind of danger to get into and not to seek out Picard for whaterver reason.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭Pentecost


    I'm actually enjoying this more than season 2 so far. Albeit they're leaning a bit heavy on the gang getting back together vibe. Also, I must admit I used to have a proper teenage crush on Beverly, and she still looks good for her age I reckon. Patrick Stewart is just too old for his role now though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭Evade


    Yeah there's not timeline for how long he's been in danger, is there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,395 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    It's still a nonsense reason though. She could - and given their long history, friendship and respect, definitely should - have still told Picard, and explained the situation and her wishes if she wanted it kept just between them etc. She's come out of it looking really poor - and worse, I actually just don't buy that it's a decision Beverly Crusher would have made.

    (I also just totally didn't buy her run through of all Picard's dangers - this supposed sequence of separate attempts on his life every few days just felt so contrived, it's another weird attempt to reframe the TNG era as this all guns blazing dangerfest, rather than the predominantly exploratory thing it was).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,306 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Better than last week, but still, not great.

    Jack being Picards son just doesn’t feel natural and they’ve had to turn Beverly into a horrible person to get it to fit with continuity. Her reasons for never mentioning him to Picard are incredibly weak. It even bothered me that they felt they had to explain the accent.

    The show still really lays it on thick the the legendary status of the enterprise-D crew too(Geordis daughter popping into seven to mention that her Dad was one of the greatest engineers ever and Raffi immediately calling Worf a legend). I get it, they were brilliant, but I always assumed there were a lot of brilliant crews across Starfleet, but these people are held on such a pedestal that everyone else was probably unremarkable.

    Still, a better episode. Picard is a dreadful first officer! Bit weird of Riker to take offence and throw him off the bridge just because he followed Picards advice though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,823 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly



    She looks great but you can see the age in her hands



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,395 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    They've an awful habit of reducing the whole universe down to around 10 relevant people. From everyone having the Ent-D crew up on this pedestal, to connecting Worf, to Rafi, to the Portal weapon, to Picard's conflict half a quadrant away - it's all just so much coincidence. It's the Picard gang's universe, the trillions of other inhabitants seemingly just live in it. (just wait for the loop to close itself, as we learn Picard and Michael Burnham are somehow related!).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,765 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    He is only in his 20s and has a bunch of aliases and he is a seasoned smuggler as is she.

    It seems quite clear they have both been acting as devil may care rebels for most of his adult life.

    She has certainly lived the life that she thinks makes Picard not parent material.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,765 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Picard and Burnham's father were good friends and he melded with her brother.

    Not a joke that actually happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭corkie


    Picard and Burnham's father were good friends and he melded with her brother.

    Not a joke that actually happened.


    Picard may not have been present during the events of Star Trek: Discovery's second season, but he did once cross paths with Spock. In the Star Trek: The Next Generation two-part Season 5 episode "Unification," Spock, now a Starfleet Ambassador, attempted to reunify the Vulcans and the Romulans, and he got a helping hand from Captain Picard and his crew. Picard and Spock worked together to help the Ambassador achieve his goal, and the two then got to talk about Spock's father, Sarek. Picard had previously met Sarek, in the appropriately titled Season 3 episode, "Sarek," where Spock's ailing father performed a Vulcan mind meld with Picard. At the end of "Unification," Picard offered Spock the chance to mind meld with him, in order to get closer to his now-deceased father.

    By doing this, Picard allowed Spock to get to know his father better. But since both Picard and Spock shared the same mind at that time, it's possible that the Captain came to learn about the Ambassador's sister, Burnham. Picard, understanding the severity of the situation thanks to the mind meld, would have also kept the knowledge a secret all this time.

    Continuity

    • This episode seemingly draws a conclusion to the actions began by Spock in the Star Trek: The Next Generation namesake episodes "Unification I" and "Unification II", which were further explored in "Face Of The Enemy" and Star Trek. Indeed, events of this episode replay Spock's speech about "closed minds [that] have kept these two worlds apart for centuries" from "Unification II" and present them as part of a record from circa stardate 45825.

    All trying to make a circle link through of shows, lets not forget the retcon of Gary Seven



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,765 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well ya that was part of the friend with her father bit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,062 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    You sir, win the internet today.

    Agree wholeheartedly on the comments about Dr. Crusher. Looks like they made her a horrible person totally out of character with the Crusher we knew from TNG just for the sake of some cheap soap opera style drama. Also the kid's ham acting gets a bit much.

    Aside from that, it's a massive improvement over season 1 and 2 so far. I like the new more gruesome changeling dissolving effect, flesh and blood oozing along the floor, eww. Wonder if that's what the two officers beamed back from the Enterprise in "the motion picture" came out looking like.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah but that's more than just friendship would be.

    Spock was friends with Kirk, can't remember if they ever did



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,765 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It does seem like the entire galaxy resents Picard for being some sociopath who dragged them into bloodthirsty adventure.

    Riker and Crusher were very willing participants in the adventures (which were not actually bloodthirsty in TNG)



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