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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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    #15272
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308350#Comment_120308350

    This is some seriously delusional level posting even for someone with your bizarre posting history on this topic.



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    #15273
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308350#Comment_120308350

    Because Ireland and the EU has decided to cede it's law making and decisions to the UK.

    How exactly did Ireland and the EU do that? Please elaborate

    Likewise, why would a British company decide to move to Ireland or the Continent as some of them were doing to mitigate the affects of Brexit.

    A British company previously could have created a base in NI so there has been no change there. The only requirement was for them to meet EU standards, etc

    This is going to be a disaster for Ireland, especially the Border counties. A ruthless competitor to the East and a special economic zone to the North. Would Intel invest in Ireland today if they were starting again? Of course they wouldn't.

    How will it be a disaster? How is the UK a ruthless competitor in any way that they were not previously?

    As for Intel, the boxes that they ticked back in the '80s are to a large extent still ticked - well educated, English speaking workforce with easy access to the entire EU and a nice Corporation Tax rate. Maybe our biggest downfall might be transport but that is hardly the fault of the EU, is it?



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    #15274
    joeysoap
    Registered Users Posts: 6,243 ✭✭✭joeysoap


    NI is in the single market for goods only, not for services.

    NI is not in the single market for freedom of movement


    People cross the border (both ways) daily. Freedom of movement or no freedom of movement life goes on.

    services I understand. We have rip off prices now and it will continue ( insurance etc)



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    #15275
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309141#Comment_120309141

    Crossing the border to Ireland which have a CTA with UK; not with rest of EU nor can an EU national go up to NI and get a job. That's a significant difference for international companies etc.



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    #15276
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309141#Comment_120309141

    People cross the border (both ways) daily. Freedom of movement or no freedom of movement life goes on.

    Can they legally work?



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    #15277
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,635 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Anyone born in NI is entitled to an Irish passport, aren't they? So they have freedom of movement if they want it.

    What is the situation with EU nationals, apart from ROI citizens, having the right to work in NI? I assume it falls under the UK immigration rules and as such NI now has freedom of movement throughout the EU, but not the other way around.



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    #15278
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308304#Comment_120308304

    Because the Republic's entire economic set up would be far superior than that in NI. Highly skilled workforce, education system geared towards big tech and pharma, lower corporation tax, IDA working aggressively to secure inward investment etc. NI is still very much in the UK's orbit.



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    #15279
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,997 ✭✭✭Christy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308304#Comment_120308304

    Because NI is still tied to the UK government that only cares about London and businesses are aware of this. The GB market or at least the taxes to get stuff in is not worth as much as the EU part of it and the ROI already has better economic I fastructure in this regard.



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    #15280
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308685#Comment_120308685

    How exactly did Ireland and the EU do that? Please elaborate

    By giving the UK a veto on which rules will apply to the Single Market. You know the Single Market that NI is in?

    How will it be a disaster? How is the UK a ruthless competitor in any way that they were not previously?

    They intend on becoming an Asian economy on our doorstep. You even alluded to yourself just there - lower living standards, lower food standards, lower welfare standards. Companies won't need to go to China for cheap manufacturing, they will be able to go to the poor Northern cities of the UK. Chinese style economy without the Chinese cost of transport to the First World.

    As for Intel, the boxes that they ticked back in the '80s are to a large extent still ticked - well educated, English speaking workforce with easy access to the entire EU and a nice Corporation Tax rate. Maybe our biggest downfall might be transport but that is hardly the fault of the EU, is it?

    Aren't you forgetting that in the '80s, Intel could trade freely with the UK from ROI. Now we can't while NI can.



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    #15281
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309362#Comment_120309362

    Absolutely none of that is true.

    They do not have a veto on rules in the Single market - AT ALL.

    They can , after jumping through many many hoop decide that they do not want to implement a new SM rule in Northern Ireland and ONLY Northern Ireland.

    The new rule will still exist everywhere else and NI will be excluded/restricted from the markets impacted by that rule because they are no longer compliant.

    Anything produced in NI that does not meet the required standards will be blocked from accessing the EU SM.



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    #15282
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309362#Comment_120309362

    If NI choose (cross community) to diverge from EU law/rules we'll just be back to them getting the boot from the SM.

    The EU have not given any real veto. They've given the illusion of one to put this to bed and get the NI assembly back up and running.



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    #15283
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309362#Comment_120309362

    By giving the UK a veto on which rules will apply to the Single Market. You know the Single Market that NI is in?

    ok - how exactly do the UK have a veto on which rules apply to the Single Market because from what I can see, you are completely misunderstanding the process involved with the Windsor agreement? Having you tell us how this veto will work might clarify the confusion here.

    They intend on becoming an Asian economy on our doorstep. You even alluded to yourself just there - lower living standards, lower food standards, lower welfare standards. Companies won't need to go to China for cheap manufacturing, they will be able to go to the poor Northern cities of the UK. Chinese style economy without the Chinese cost of transport to the First World.

    So again, how is this a disaster for Ireland?

    Aren't you forgetting that in the '80s, Intel could trade freely with the UK from ROI. Now we can't while NI can.

    You asked whether Intel would invest in Ireland. That the UK has put up trade barriers where there used to be none does not make them a more attractive investment location so I'm struggling to understand the absence of logic in your point here. Are you trying to say that Intel would be more likely to invest in NI simply because they can trade with GB? They could have done that a month ago. They could have done that prior to the UK leaving the EU. But they didn't!

    Plus NI being holding a special economic status doesn't detract from the obvious fact that the available workforce isn't huge so you won't have a long list of companies suddenly locating there!



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    #15284
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    What duties do Intel pay when exporting from Ireland to the UK ?



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    #15285
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    If baffles me that Brexiteers will only believe a deal is good if the EU is losing out in some way. This agreement is obviously good for NI and GB (removing the obstacles to a US-UK trade deal) without the need for making up lies about NI vetoing laws for the rest of the EU.

    I think the DUP realise the brake is not an easy tool to use so will ultimately go against, even though this is probably the best deal they will get.



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    #15286
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,507 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309549#Comment_120309549

    The Brexiteer logic is rooted in a fundamental core tenet or belief that there are either those in charge, and those taking orders. There's no such thing as community, consensus or compromise: someone has to be losing out, and someone has to be on top. It's probably not coincedential we're also talking about a country that had a very engrained, institutionalised Class structure through centuries and never really got rid of it either.



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    #15287
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,069 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309549#Comment_120309549

    All the rhetoric around Brexit was Wellington and Spitfire nonsense. Previous generations had saved England from the evil clutches of European dictators and this was your generations war. The fight to "take back control"

    So if it's war then there has to be a winner and loser.



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    #15288
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,517 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309768#Comment_120309768

    And, they want to Rule, not to Govern. Governing is inconvenient.



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    #15289
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309768#Comment_120309768

    Fintan O'Toole has a similar theory. In the Brexiteer mindset, you can only be the subjugator or subjugated, there is no halfway house. It's very much an imperial mindset - the idea of cooperation, consensus and being 'equal partners' is almost alien to them.

    I guess this is what De Gaulle was on about when he blocked UK EEC membership. He probably understood that the English imperial mindset would prove at odds with the idea of 'European union'.



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    #15290
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310140#Comment_120310140

    Them not being in charge has always been a key part of the British problem with the concept of the EU.

    They have an Imperialistic variant of the "American Exceptionalism" problem that the US has.

    They are utterly incapable of seeing anyone else as being better than them or even seeing them as equals.

    They are the best , they know best and anything less than them being completely in control is utterly anathema to their psyche.



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    #15291
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310202#Comment_120310202

    Many British / English people were fine with EU membership of course, but for many others, especially the "we won the war" and "we liberated Europe" guys, the idea of European political union was way too big a step. The way they saw it, they were practically lowering themselves by having to be equal partners with countries they had defeated or 'liberated' during the war.



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    #15292
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309413#Comment_120309413

    If NI choose (cross community) to diverge from EU law/rules we'll just be back to them getting the boot from the SM.

    Which puts us back to square one. Our borders and our trade is beholdened to the whims of NI and the UK. Entities that have completely removed themselves from the EU.



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    #15293
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310472#Comment_120310472

    Our trade is absolutely not "beholden" to the UK.

    If they break the rules , they lose access - We don't , THEY do.

    There are absolutely categorically no circumstances where our membership of or access to the Single Market is at risk from the actions of the UK or NI.

    There are other implications tied to the Good Friday agreement and all that that entails , but there is nothing that impacts the SM.



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    #15294
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309426#Comment_120309426

    Are you trying to say that Intel would be more likely to invest in NI simply because they can trade with GB? They could have done that a month ago. They could have done that prior to the UK leaving the EU. But they didn't!

    They are already established here so doesn't make sense to uproot now. But new companies seeking markets in the UK and the EU will look towards NI. They already benefit from lower tariffs on steel and solar panels there. That's just the start of it.

    Plus NI being holding a special economic status doesn't detract from the obvious fact that the available workforce isn't huge so you won't have a long list of companies suddenly locating there!

    Rubbish. There's plenty of people available to do the medium skilled work in manufacturing. They can draw on Irish and UK workers if need be.

    Seems a lot of people on this thread have not heard of unintended consequences. Do they think there is no such thing?



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    #15295
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310472#Comment_120310472

    NI and Brexit has always been a circle that couldn't be squared. If this gets the DUP to shut up and stormont back up and running then it's a win win.

    It would also be beyond bizzare if it ever got cross community support. So if they accept this it's pretty much squared for a generation.



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    #15296
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,069 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310538#Comment_120310538

    It won't because it doesn't address the reason Stormont is shut.

    A Sinn Fein FM.



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    #15297
    Mefistofelino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310493#Comment_120310493

    I think you may be confused on the steel tariffs issue. Last year an additional tariff of 25% was applied to various categories of British steel entering Northern Ireland so NI was paying 25% more for the same steel than GB. This has now been removed .Meanwhile EU steel has continued to be sold into the UK market without tariffs.

    So the market has just returned to where it was prior to last August - NI hasn't been given some form of additional discount on steel to make it significantly cheaper than anywhere in the UK or Ireland.



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    #15298
    yagan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭yagan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310472#Comment_120310472

    NI voted to remain in the EU.

    Plus some mod please end this posters trolling. It's pathetic.



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    #15299
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,069 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310689#Comment_120310689

    You are being generous. He is confused on every aspect of EU/UK relations because of a blinding obsession with Irexit.



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    #15300
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310954#Comment_120310954

    I didn't know that the referendum was split out in a regional basis when held by the UK. You got evidence of that?

    If not, then I'm going to assume it was not and those voting - and more importantly those not arsed to vote - knew that as well.

    Therefore the UK and NI are removed from the EU. I shouldn't have to explain these basics to you.



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    #15301
    yagan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭yagan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311127#Comment_120311127

    Youre being a troll.


    I've give upn reporting you for twattery. You're a time waster, you never have anything to contribute but scutter.


    Mods, wake the f up.



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