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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    The amount of fruit the UK requires isn't available due to poor weather in Spain and Morocco.

    Ireland being a country with a population of only approx 7.5% of the UKs buys and requires much less fruit so while there are overall shortages there is enough for a population the size of Ireland.

    67 million Vs 5 million

    Simple economics, math and common sense



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    If you were anyway close to being correct in your logic, Ireland would continuously have difficulty sourcing veg because of the larger market taking it and we'd have seen shortages first.

    3 times now you've defeated your own arguments with your posts. Keep going.

    Meanwhile.




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    We've seen increasing images of nazi symbols in use on the streets of the US and Florida in particular.

    It's now getting verbal.




  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    We often here about bad faith actors on both sides of opinion overstating the size of the threat from the other for the purpose of pushing their own agenda.


    From the Anti Defamation League website:

    "On February 17 and 18, 2023, approximately 15 individuals associated with the virulently antisemitic Goyim Defense League (GDL) distributed propaganda and protested across Florida"


    15 individuals in Florida. And yet we are hearing about it on a forum in Ireland as if neo Nazis are swarming on the streets and attacking Jewish people.

    15 individuals out of a population of 21,780,000 or 0.000006 % of the population

    Forgive me if my pearls remain unclutched on this occasion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,502 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    ". And yet we are hearing about it on a forum in Ireland as if neo Nazis are swarming on the streets and attacking Jewish people."

    They are; not in Ireland, but all-time levels in the USA. Remember the Charlottesville march?




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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Lol. What a ridiculous attempt to downplay literal Nazi's in the streets talking about putting people in ovens.

    Did you ever hear the phrase 'Its' better to keep your mouth closed and be thought out of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt'?

    You'd have been better off not responding to my post than posting what you did. I made no reference to the numbers involved, that is all you pulling a strawman out of bed on a Sunday morning so you can give him a beating. Well done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Literal Nazis would be Ww2 era German soldiers on the streets.

    Surely you mean Neo Nazis?

    Do you have proof that these things share the Nazi ideology?

    Islamists hate Jews but aren't Nazis . Are these people actually neo Nazis or are they anti semites?

    If using the term "literally" it's important to be accurate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,502 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    From original tweet.

    “Heil hitler” “sir do you think you should be put in an oven”

    Guy on the internet.

    Do you have proof that these things share the Nazi ideology?

    Me.

    GTFO



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    What's the point in discussion, debate and discourse if you are just going to tell people to go use Google.

    Is that where we are at? It's grim when you see groups of people staring down at their screens for company. People walking past each other without looking up.

    There's no life staring into a screen.

    ( Ironic as I type this into my phone screen)

    These racist thugs must be thrown out



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,502 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Because discussion should be informed. "Just Asking Questions" is trolling. Not bothering to do a minimum of investigation prior to bringing up a point of discussion, is essentially trolling.

    "These racist thugs must be thrown out"

    Sadly, they're likely to be US citizens and probably won't have any consequences for their hate speech - the 1st Amendment to the Constitution protects them


    But, what would you do to prevent this behavior in the future? We can, of course, discuss. A hate speech/incitement law would be a good start in the US but difficult to pass as it's subjective and there's a long history of free speech. It's one of the places Ireland falls down in my view, there's no freedom of speech here to the level the US has it. Holdover from English law.


    However, no reason these goons can't be doxxed and all their employers know about them. My guess is it's likely that's happening. SPLC and the ADL learning who they are would be a plus as well.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Im only going to comment on Ireland here.

    We should have a tougher refugee policy that pushes towards zero like Denmark did pre Ukraine war.

    This is not racist its just realising we have no housing for refugees and most are simply migrants. We are an island on the Atlantic for FS.

    However Ukraine is different because Russia has to be stopped before it pushes further into democratic Europe. Thus we have to take Ukrainians in.

    However I am sick of LGBT virtue signaling and pretending its the biggest issue out there. I'm against sex Ed in secondary schools beyond the basics. Because I think it will encourage the 100 types of sexuality bullshit.

    As to identity politics I'm not going to apologise for being white and male so **** off. Nor the feminist obcession with attacking male's at every oppturnity and making young men feel bad about masculinity as a whole

    I won't be voting for a far right party but I don't entirely disagree with their agenda



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    First part of this is completely disconnected from reality. For a couple of reasons.

    The population of Ireland in the mid 19th century was over 8M people, we're still way below that.

    And that aside, there's somewhere in the region of 150K properties in Ireland not being used. And the practice of hoarding property for future development or whatever other reason while not being obliged to use it in a meaningful way, is most definitely not a left wing philosophy.

    Also, nobody's asking you to apologize for being white and male so leave that on the Charlie Kirk podcast or wherever it was that was telling you that that was happening.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Oh here we go again with the vacant property solution to the housing crisis.

    Yes there is some merit to it in terms of houses in areas with housing demand but a good portion of those are in areas where there is little demand like Leitrim etc. Plus if you used them for refugees you run into tenancy rights etc

    They also require investment in many cases to make them habitable

    You'd also have to change property ownership rules because in many cases people do not want them occupied.

    So I look forward to hearing from you.

    I won't hold my breath

    Post edited by Bobtheman on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Or more Northerly areas can grow fruit and berries where they couldn't before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    What do you want to hear from me?

    You've just admitted that exactly what I said was the case.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    You suggested vacant homes would solve the housing crisis. We are now about 7/8 years into this. Why has this not worked? It's your suggestion not mine

    Thus we still don't have accommodations for refugees. Space yes - houses no



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Why has this not worked?

    Because the 'most definitely not left wing' policy of allowing properties to be hoarded continues to exist. (Amongst other things mind)

    How is this so difficult to understand?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,470 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    That 8 million would be the whole island I believe. Currently just over 7, so not a million miles away...



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell



    The population of Ireland in the mid 19th century was over 8M people, we're still way below that.

    But we're way above with the standard of living. And indeed, if we let another 3 million then we will be returning to the standards of living from those days: food poverty, no healthcare, no education. So yes, Ireland can accommodate millions more, but only if we're willing to accept to turn it into a 3rd world country.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So about 12% less.

    Look at how all other countries around the world populations have changed in the last 175 odd years.

    The vast majority increased dramatically. There is no evidence that doing so automatically means dropping down to 3rd world status.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Also there is no evidence that Ireland can support this population increase without severely dropping its living standards. You were the one who brought this historical argument as evidence, well, in those times Ireland was a 3rd world country. Do you want to go back to that, or maybe it's wiser to have any population increase made sustainable by making sure this country can support it before and not after it happens?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,630 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You have to factor in that this is not a one way flow of people.

    I think (though I am open to being corrected) that I read somewhere last year that the % of people living in Ireland who weren't born there is the same as the % of people who are born in Ireland and who have left. 17% in both cases IIRC.

    So, if that is the case, people entering the country are merely keeping us from having a falling population. And to be that close to such a scenario in 2023 given how prosperous and accessible Ireland is, would suggest that it most definitely is not correct to say that we have no room.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    OK let's both park the mud slinging.

    I do agree that more needs to be done in terms of vacant properties particularly in areas of demand.

    Perhaps there are people who do not want these properties rented for various reasons. Im unaware of legislation that would force compulsory sale? Are you.

    But to just throw out a figure of 150k vacant houses as a total solution to the housing crisis is simplistic and you know it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    This actually shows we're nowhere near "merely keeping us from having a falling population" - in fact we seem to be in the middle of one of the highest population increase in the recent history. And the fact the growth is so net immigration based means in the next few years we will see a lot more births than normally expected with a natural population increase, putting further pressure on already too far streched systems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,502 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Sorry, when have Irish living standards gone down? Anecdotally, seems like things are improving - growing GNP, Brexit benefits pouring in, jobs going begging, exports growing, big road construction projects, new hospitals... Can't really think of a better place in the Western world to live, certainly not the UK who listened to their right-wing sirens and are the sick old man of Europe again, nor the US until it comes to grips with the insane cult of the GOP that 1/2 the population seems to follow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Anecdotally, seems like things are improving

    Anecdotally the rents are unaffordable for a significant percent of the population, getting a place in a school and a GP practice is much more difficult and the hospital overcrowding and A&E waiting times are insane. And yes all those things you mentioned are also true, Ireland makes a lot of money, but also people need houses, schools and hospitals which take time to be build. No one said we should make the things even worse like the UK did, but a little more responsibility is needed.

    And this is not even a right wing thing, proper right wing will be in the interest of landlords and business to have even more people, not less.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I don't think it's right wing to question our immigration or refugee policy but that's what gets thrown at you if you do.

    As to the right wing being more landlord friendly - at present we have an exodus of landlords from the market. Despite high rents. Because there is absolutely no consistency of policy and the RTB is a mess



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,891 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sees like some of the nuts in PBP have been reading this thread and believe that an armed coup is possible if a left-wing government takes over.

    That being said, as it appears their left-wing government won't include any of FF, FG, Greens, SF and Labour, it is not likely to ever happen, so the imagined threat isn't possible either.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I think they got it all wrong, the only way a far left party like themselves can come into power is through a coup.



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