Covid-19 likely to be man made

Quite long, but just to point out that the book he's selling has had mixed reviews

"Two champions of ‘rigorous science’ fail to provide a shred of evidence that Covid-19 was engineered and leaked from a lab"

"In reality, however, “Viral” is a laboratory-perfect example of how not to write about a scientific issue. The authors rely less on the scientists doing the painstaking work to unearth the virus’ origin than on self-described sleuths who broadcast their dubious claims, sometimes anonymously, on social media. In the end, Chan and Ridley spotlight all the shortcomings of the hypothesis they set out to defend."

Ridley himself is a prominent climate-change denier.

We don't know the origin of Covid, the current scientific consensus is that it likely came from animals, although a lab leak can't be ruled out. This book, by two scientists, doesn't change that, on top of that it has a few red flags which has singled it out for criticism.

You believe that all space travel is fake.

So you arguing that your preferred conclusion is "comphrensible and plausible" is not really a point in its favour.

Have you consider that since you hold such extreme beliefs like the notion that all space flights are fake that maybe your understanding of what reasonable explanations are are a bit skewed.

But no one your accusing actually holds that position dude.

No one here believes things just cause scientists say so. Except maybe conspiracy theorists when they find someone with qualifications who supports their beliefs.

Yup. You falsely accused people of holding a position they don't hold.

What do you mean "evidence of your own eyes"?

Did you witness the virus escaping from a lab?

It's the current scientific consensus, open just about any journal or piece or article on the subject.

No one is saying the experts are always correct, likewise no need to put that word in quotes, there are plenty of experts around.

In the absence of overwhelming evidence, we can use straightforward logic. If 80 scientists say X and 20 say Y (with papers, evidence, rebuttals, etc), then it's likely the answer is X. Keyword: likely. But Y can't be fully ruled out.

In this particular case, the zoonotic link is currently and widely considered the stronger theory. But lab leak cannot be ruled out.

Scientists and experts are questioning the origin, it's what they do, it's perfectly healthy.

Conspiracy theorists are generally people who've decided something is a conspiracy and are working backwards from there.

But the overwhelming evidence is that that vaccines are safe and effective.

They're still trying to vaguely hint that the vaccine is secretly killing millions. But they are aware of how ridiculous this sounds to normal folk so they've been leaning less and less into that belief openly.

We've been repeatedly told that the 6+ million people killed by covid aren't a significant figure. So imagine the numbers of of those 14 billion doses that have to have happened for it to register as an issue for these anti vaxxers.

Note the similarities with views on the origins of Ebola:

"During the large Ebola outbreak of 2013–2016, conspiracists used various media platforms to accuse our research group in Sierra Leone of unleashing Ebola virus (EBOV) on the people of West Africa (1). The main argument: EBOV must have leaked from a laboratory run by the Ministry of Health and Sanitation and our group in Kenema, located about 50 miles southwest of the village in Guinea in which EBOV emerged. The virus, so went their rationale, had previously only emerged in Middle African countries, such as the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which is more than 1,500 miles away from West Africa (Fig. 1). Some pundits charged that we were running a bioweapons laboratory funded by the “New World Order” as part of their clandestine efforts to establish a one-world government. Other theorists suggested that we had altered EBOV to make it more infectious—perhaps even airborne."

"In reality, we did not have EBOV in our laboratory and therefore could not have released or engineered it. The NIH funded us to develop countermeasures for Lassa virus, a hemorrhagic fever virus unrelated to EBOV (2). The West African Ebola outbreak showed that viruses can move large distances either via human travelers, commerce, or—sometimes—on the wings of bats."

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2214427119

And why it's unlikely a lab leak was the origin of Covid-19:

"The faulty lab leak narrative leaves out some crucial details. Most lab leak proponents don’t mention that most major Chinese cities have one or more active coronavirus laboratories. The Chinese government established these laboratories after multiple spillovers of the first SARS-CoV in 2002 through 2004, which caused approximately 8,000 cases of severe respiratory disease worldwide and at least 744 deaths. Those who suggest that the pandemic is the result of a lab leak often also note that the closest related bat coronaviruses to SARS-CoV-2 have been found only in southern China or in Laos, about 750 miles away from Wuhan (4) (Fig. 1). They argue that the virus could not have traversed such a distance without causing COVID-19 cases along the way. These comments, however, show an ignorance of some crucial points: the West African EBOV precedent, which showed that viruses can emerge or reemerge large distances from the site of their initial spillover, and the fact that SARS-CoV emerged multiple times in Chinese megacities similar distances from where its closest bat progenitors have been found.

On January 10, 2020, Edward Holmes of the University of Sydney, Australia—working on behalf of a consortium led by Yong-Zhen Zhang of Fudan University, Shanghai, China—became the first person to release the genomic sequence of the novel coronavirus (5). That sequence spurred a flurry of activity by virologists reminiscent of when the first genomic sequence of SARS-CoV was published in 2003 (6). My long-time collaborator William Gallaher and I quickly analyzed the amino acid sequence of the SARS-CoV spike protein. We correctly predicted that the coronavirus spike protein fits the general scaffold of HIV-1 and influenza virus glycoprotein structures (Fig. S1). Likewise, the site for cleavage of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein into its two subunits, S1 and S2, was quickly identified by ourselves and others: It is a furin cleavage site (FCS). Acquisition of a FCS can render a low pathogenicity avian influenza virus increasingly transmissible and highly pathogenic. SARS-CoV accomplishes its high pathogenicity, a 9% case fatality rate, without a FCS at this location. Although the FCS confers increased transmissibility, the level of SARS-CoV-2 pathogenicity—although substantial—does not approach that of SARS-CoV.

In another instance, the newly released SAR-CoV-2 sequence was promptly used to support the possibility of an unnatural origin for SARS-CoV-2. On January 31, 2020, a preprint purported that the SARS-CoV-2 proteins contain unique inserts with an “uncanny similarity” to HIV-1 proteins (7). The clear insinuation was that SARS-CoV-2 had been engineered in a laboratory. The authors of this preprint suggested that some inserts are “related” to the HIV glycoprotein (Gp120) (Fig. 2A). They suggested that another insert from the HIV-1 Group antigen (Gag) created a portion of the FCS. The inserts are short or required insertions for partial alignment and therefore are likely to be present purely by chance. Although this preprint was retracted based on these fundamental flaws, the media firestorm fortified lab leak conspiracists worldwide and intensified suspicion of virologists at the WIV."

It's a very good piece I recommend it to anyone interested.

And low confidence.

Amazing. Yet they brought samples of bat coronavirus from 1800km away to work on.

Yes, I understand that very well. Yunnan province, 1800 km from Wuhan is where Sars was traced to and where the nearest known relation of Covid 19 came from.

Yunan province, not Hubei province.

Are you seriously arguing

“The facility was there because Wuhan is a place where new virus emerge due to bats and other local fauna.”

What new viruses have emerged in Wuhan? Or did you just make that up?

Did your first link mention Hubei province or did I miss it?

Your second is a link about Leptospira, a bacteria not a virus

Above a list of bat caves and roosts in China. Province 11 on map is Hubei. Hubei has 1, possibly 2 sites.

Do you have any evidence that the reason the Wuhan Institute of Virology is based in Wuhan is “because Wuhan is a place where new virus emerge due to bats and other local fauna.”

Also FYI 1956 was not “ the depths of the Chinese Cultural Revolution”. It started a decade later.

So no evidence then, just doubling down and your error was just facetiousness.

And the virus that could have possibly leaked from the lab was most closely related to one brought to the lab from 1800km away.

Okey Dokey.

To use your analogy about weather stations tracking tornadoes, would such a weather station be best located in Texas or New Jersey?

Making statements without evidence and trying to semantically explain one’s errors is exactly the type of behavior you would be quick to challenge in other posters.

You make further claim

What I do know is that there are many novel virus discovered in Wuhan every year

and again

Of the many novel virus discovered in Wuhan, one happened to be COVID, the others are remarked with barely a footnote.

How many novel viruses are discovered in Wuhan every year?

Again no evidence for a claim you made a very definite statement on “what I do know is”.

If you can state with certainty that many novel viruses are discovered in Wuhan every year you should be able to state if its

Less than 5?

Less than 10?

More than 100?

I don’t know why you have to look up something that you have already stated that you definitely know.

To get this straight, you believe Covid was created in a laboratory by the Chinese? It's man-made according to you? (I won't even touch all the Seymour Hersh balloon stuff)