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NI Dec 22 Assembly Election

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jh79


    You'd hope so but hard to know with SF. They fear a plan as much as FF/FG fear unity. Could be the final nail in the coffin. Unity isn't in a strong position in Ireland. As soon as tax increases are mentioned it will tank.

    Squabbles in Ireland about how much we are willing to sacrifice for unity are not going to improve support in NI either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not seeing any fear of a plan manifest itself in SF.

    They wouldn't be forgiven in the north if they got into government here and did nothing. Nor along this side of the border.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    If, and it’s a big if, unionists are permanently afraid and in siege mode, it might have something to do with the fact that they were practically wiped out in the south and have endured a violent sectarian campaign by republicans in the north to drive them out.

    why can republicans not get discussions going on a United ireland? Irelands Future booked one of Belfast's smaller venues last year and couldn’t fill it, and seem to have given up. Is it because there is no interest or are they afraid that any proposal will decrease further the small number now wanting a Ui.

    you mention Santa. Unionists are more likely to see the benifit of discussions on whether Santa is real, as that is more likely than a Ui in our lifetimes. Hard to get excited about something that is a pipe dream



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I see new signs up all around here. The conversation continues.

    Not really an answer to my question though.

    It's 25 years since the GFA and Unionism in fear is driving itself up cul de sacs and are being forced to accept an Irish Sea border and EU rule.

    If they weren't so afraid it should be them calling for a border poll.

    I think it is blatantly clear why they won't do that TBH



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jh79


    Why would they be afraid? Unity is not polling well at all. Sure the DUP knew they could try to get a better deal because there was no chance of unity happening.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You aren't listening to their public utterances about being subjugated and being forced into an all island economy making a UI easier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jh79


    It's definitely getting less British but still no closer to Unity. Still though, will retain the monarchy, currency etc. Average person probably won't care, once SF implement the Windsor Protocol all the other stakeholders will move on to more pressing issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There doesn't seem to be any issue within nationalism to 'moving on'. The footdragging and fear driven strategic blundering is being done by Unionism.

    A credible reason as to why Unionism is so fearful and obsessed with regaining a veto, you have not yet given.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jh79


    Don't care to be honest. End result is the same irrespective of what Unionism says/does. A border poll is highly unlikely nevermind unity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jh79


    Maybe that is the reason SF have failed to get any momentum towards a UI going. Too concerned with getting one over on the DUP.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think the DUP are perfectly capable of getting one over themselves.

    SF just have to sit back and watch this last 5 years or so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jh79


    Fair enough but with hindsight have not capitalised on it. No closer to a UI now then the day after the GFA was signed. That's on them no-one else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Is it their fault the Irish government have failed to plan? Not in my opinion.

    A political party cannot produce a plan, it can only lobby for a plan to be commenced, which they are doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jh79


    If the government came up with a plan what role would the opposition have? Would they be allowed to contest it and suggest alternatives? If yes, why not just put their own ideas out there now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Go along to one of their events discussing this? I'm sure you'll hear plenty of ideas.

    The government wil start the process to a plan with a citizens assembly I would bet BTW.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jh79


    Citizen Assembly would be good alright. Just a hypothetical but what happens if the Citizens Assembly come back with a version of a UI that isn't popular in NI?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The same thing that happens anything unpopular I'd imagine.

    The CA won't produce the plan, it will make recommendations on some of what will be in a plan.

    .



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You sound desperately insecure francie. How many times have you said unionists are fearful in the last page or two. Are you trying to convince yourself of this. Unionism, through the dup, shot ourselves massively on the foot backing brexit (that said it would have went through without a single unionist vote).

    I don’t hear anyone in unionism panicking or rushing to make a decision on WF. Whilst the hardliners in unionism don’t see it, the more that nationalists believe what you are saying about unionism accepting Irish Sea border etc, then the further away it puts any slim chance of a Ui. That’s the conundrum for republicans. The more you green ni, the more you make nationalist comfortable in ni



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    @downcow Stop trolling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unionism has lived in fear since the Anglo Irish Agreement, the ending of their veto officially. Fear has characterised their operation of the GFA **which they never signed up to)

    It's the fear of losing the very thing partition gave them, an artificial majority and veto.

    The fact is they have lost all that and are equals now. They just have to admit it to themselves.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    with Regard to elections, I think it is less likely this morning that stormont will be reestablishing.

    I think it was probably 60/40 within dup in favour of accepting the FM. I think that was the other way around in the unionist community ie most did not want to accept. I think there was a real chance dup would have been allowed by community to enter stormont without declaring acceptance or rejection. That may now have gone with the emergence of the secret recording of Maros Sefcovic. I think the wriggle room for the dup is getting smaller and they may be forced to outright reject the FM.

    personally I think they should neither accept or reject there is no benifit in doing either. Just simple ‘if we have no further input on the FM, then we have no further comment’

    Post edited by downcow on


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I suppose it will be everyone else's fault when you get direct rule with Dublin input.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I feel unionists now need to regroup and focus on not alienating the growing middle ground who support the union. Dup have been a disaster for several years, we've had brexit, protocol, covid, sf and alliance teaming up, and still the number wanting a Ui keeps falling. That latest poll is better than my wildest and most optimistic predictions.

    I would certainly be open to consider supporting limited Irish language signage etc. tbh the disaster of brexit has played right into unionists hands both in ni and Scotland - the fear of another disastrous independence poll has secured the Uk for a very long time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭lurleen lumpkin




  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Irish language signage is enshrined in law.

    Just another law that Unionists block and refuse to implement. Nobody is waiting for them on that either and Irish language signage is now all over NI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I’m not sure sf would agree. Belfast - nationalist majority - 6 months - 5,000 streets - 600 requests - easiest system - only 15% yeses needed - zero approved.

    but maybe unionists should support this in areas it’s wanted.

    Irish on road signage in ni - 20,000 road signs - zero in Irish

    etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Is it the law = yes.

    Do Unionists attempt to block out of insecurity and fear =yes.

    Has NI moved on without Unionists again = yes, dual signage is appearing all over NI.

    This is what has happened since the Anglo Irish Agreement, why do you think the Protocol is going to be any different? Genuine question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭rock22


    Honestly Downcow. can you answer,

    Are you proud of unionist blocking the use the the Irish language

    Or, are you ashamed ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Let’s be honest with each other.

    I have done lots to support Irish language in my area. I have enabled an Irish language youth club in my organisation. I have reasonably close friends who love Irish. The local Irish school will tell you I was the first person on the phone when they had a serious fire, offering the help of my organisation

    I detest the erection of Irish language signage on roads and would currently do what I could to block it. It marks out territory and is done by those in authority in the Council. In my area you now know when you are entering a republican dominated street because it has a council Irish sign.

    a road needs to be very militant republican to get a sign. My own road is 90% nationalist and yet the recent poll failed because ordinary nationalists know it is divisive.

    ypu probably know that the council policies are for dual language and that ulster Scot’s is equally entitled. Unionists are working hard to hold communities back from requesting them as we don’t want every road labelled as either republican or loyalist. In my council there have been many hundreds of applications for Irish and not one for Ulster Scots - same in Belfast.

    if unionists ever feel we have lost the reasonable way forward then the flood gates will open for Ulster Scots applications. Then no one will need union flags or GAA flags, kerbstones or GAA clubs to know what area they are in; the council will have tagged every street for anyone visiting to know the sectarian makeup of it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭Choochtown



    Exactly Downcow. Now you've hit the nail on the head.

    I think the wriggle room for the dup is getting smaller and they may be forced to outright reject the FM. "

    Those lads have no time for democracy. Forced to "outright reject" Michelle O'Neill.

    As I've said all along, the closure of Stormont is nothing to do with the protocol.



This discussion has been closed.
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