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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Strand1970


    If Ukraine don't make big gains in the spring - summer this war will grind to a stalemate over a few years. Interesting to see where they attack and how weak the Russians are on the defensive.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Mixed news here…

    On the one hand it’s bizarre that the entire West can’t supply enough artillery to keep up with Russian stock piles and production. It probably explains the relatively small number of HIMARS delivered to Ukraine, it’s all the West can supply.

    On the other hand they look to be gearing up for a large counter attack, and Russia really have made little progress since Ukraine’s last lightening counter attack before the muddy season.

    Surely the West can up its game to better support Ukraine.

    Oh, as a BTW… Bakhmut still holds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,563 ✭✭✭jackboy


    We have seen minor Russian victories before, followed by catastrophic defeats. No need to assume anything different this time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    There's no guarantee the Ukrainian counter attack whenever it happens will provide big results. Russia now has a lot more soldier's spread across a shorter frontline after they mobilised. You'd have to assume Russia has mined any area Ukraine is likely to attack.

    Something like the Kharkiv counter attack won't be happening again. Part of me thinks Ukraine shouldn't counter until Russia has exhausted their current attacking forces be that another month or 4.


    We'll see what happens because there's a lot of pressure on Ukraine. If they fail to liberate place's like Melitopol and Svatove this summer it will really bring into question their ability to ever push the Russians out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,515 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    When did the frontline get smaller?

    Ya'd assume Ukraine mined any area they fall back from

    Why won't the Kharkiv counter attack happen again? It's happened TWICE already and no one thought it would.

    Why shouldn't Ukraine counter? It may be in their best interest to counter to move Russians troops.

    Who is putting pressure on Ukraine? What is the significance of the summer for liberation of settlements mentioned?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,708 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The overarching Russian objective in February 2022 was to take the entire territory of Ukraine. By contrast, the overarching objective of Ukraine was to hold what is recognised to be their territory. A year on, Ukraine retains control of the vast majority of that territory. Vs. the alternative, I think Ukraine would have taken that situation. Few commentators were giving the country a chance of holding out that long.

    Not only has Ukraine held out, but they are restricting Russia to the eastern and southern oblasts and Russia show little sign of making significant headway. Still, there are those who act as if it's only a matter of time. Probably worth remembering the old quote about the victors in war not being those who can do more damage, but who is prepared to suffer more. The Ukrainians fighting for their homeland? Or Russian conscripts who will be undersupplied and have only a rote notion of why they're there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I'm just in a negative move lately with what's likely the fall of Bakhmut. The Eastern side is probably gone already and the north and south are Just about holding. Meanwhile Russia is pushing further West so I'm not in a positive mood right now.


    The Kharkiv offensive came from a frontline which was not sufficiently manned or prepared. The extra troops from the mobilisation hadn't been deployed.


    Russia had sent so many of it's best units to Kherson. That Luhansk front will never been undermanned again so any future breakthroughs will be much harder.


    The Kherson retreat was inevitable as Ukraine had a major advantage. Russia couldn't adequately resupply their forces across the river. Now that they've retreated that entire front line along the river is not at risk of a Ukrainian push so the frontline has been massively shortened.


    There are less place's for Ukraine to counter now. Only 2 realistic options are towards Melitopol and the Svatove/Kremina area. So the Russians will be prepared. I think the best hope is that Russia absolutely exhausts itself over the next 2/3 month's and before another mobilisation can come into effect Ukraine managed to successfully launch a big counter.


    There's so much at stake for both sides. If Russia holds they could break Ukraines ability to breakthrough but if Ukraine are successful and take a city like Melitopol they could cut off the Russians and force a retreat to Crimea. And Crimea cut off by land and bridge blown again could become a massive logistical headache for Russia to supply enough in order to defend.


    Part of me could see Ukraine retaking Crimea before Donetsk/Luhansk/Mariupol but so much needs to go right for them over the next few months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Bakhmut holds,

    German tank manufacturer Rhemmeintal wants to build a new tank factory producing the lastest panther tank in Ukraine while the war is still ongoing they aren't even worried about airstrikes,

    Talking about confidence,they just need customers for their new tank to make it viable...



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The first 90 US Stryker vehicles have been unloaded in Germany getting ready to be sent to Ukraine,

    Part of several hundred modern westen armored vehicles due to arrive over the next few weeks,

    Armoured bridgeing vehicles are being sent to Ukraine too ,





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,563 ✭✭✭jackboy


    It’s extremely important for Ukraine to break the Russians this year. If they don’t the west have two choices, keep supplying the current levels of weaponry and supports for an unknown long period of time, maybe decades, or let Russians win.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Has anyone noticed how this "big" winter/spring offensive from Russia has taken place all along the Eastern front line from kupyansk to vuhledar?


    Why haven't the Russians be striking along the southern frontline along the Zaporozhye front? Is this the sum of their capabilities?



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Seanmadradubh


    "It's not who can inflict the most but who can endure the most will conquer."

    Terence macSwiney, Lord Mayor of Cork, died on hunger strike in an English jail 1920.

    Glóir do na laochra.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,708 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It strikes me that Russian methods of advancement are becoming less and less sophisticated. When they began their (official) invasion of Ukraine, they looked to be attempting something that resembled a combined arms assault, wojus as it ended up. After a period of stagnation, came the iron rain, as Russia looked set to grind their way across Ukraine by burning through their entire Cold War shell stock. That tactic has also become less and less effective. Now, their latest attempt at achieving strategic goals is to just launch pure numbers of men at the problem. What will they do, if and when Ukraine gets something that makes this not even worthwhile? The summit with China seems like it will be pivotal for Putin...



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,379 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Good twitter analysis from Mick Ryan on Bakhmut situation


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭vixdname


    Regular guys can pull triggers too unfortunately, so they too are legitimate targets to be destroyed



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,708 ✭✭✭✭briany


    And not another regular Russian guy would have to die if Putin did the sensible thing for Russia and withdrew his forces. Putin is in far too deep to do this, of course, but the principal of the thing remains the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭vixdname


    You know, when the covid 19 pandemic started a few years back, I was in my mid 40s and genuinely thought I had a decent grasp of how people were, and their intelligence in general.

    Shortly after the pandemic started, it began to become very apparent that there is a large number of people, thankfully a low percentage over all, but a large number nonetheless that are genuinely no smarter than a 10 year old kid, their observational skills, their lack of coherence, their lack of situational awareness, their selfishness and over all underdeveloped empathy unfortunately welded together with unsupportable arrogance and ignorance was utterly astounding - and it was a global phenomena.

    So, in short, don't be surprised by the mentality of some people as regards this conflict, these are the same people I refer to above - there's no hope for them, so best just ignore them or publicly ridicule them so as to try and make them realise how dumb they really are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,876 ✭✭✭✭Discodog




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,339 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Let me guess, he’s gonna Nuke us all so we should give him what he wants?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭jmreire


    What an ordinary Russian is in civilian life, and what comes out of Putins de-humanization machine are too different things. Any Russian on Ukrainian territory and wearing Russian military uniform is a legitimate target.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Historians will look back on how Ukraine lost the largest battle of 21st century at the time.

    “Just like the Battle of Saratoga, the fight for Bakhmut will change the trajectory of our war for independence and for freedom.” - Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy 2022

    Post edited by charlie_says on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,515 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    The fight for Bakhmut, whether won or lost for Ukraine can change the war trajectory. That quote doesn't imply winning that battle equals winning the war. Nor does Ukraine having to withdraw from there equal a defeat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,876 ✭✭✭✭Discodog




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,379 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not if they are historians familiar with the concept of pyrhhic victories... and such precdents as the Battle of Bunker Hill:

    General Clinton echoed Pyrrhus of Epirus, remarking in his diary that "A few more such victories would have shortly put an end to British dominion in America."

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,339 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,571 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Some bloggers are already drawing "arrows" of blows that will be delivered after taking Bakhmut. However, I do not share such optimistic forecasts at all. By the time the “Wagner” “torments” the town after more than 2 months of assault, it will have to “take a breath” for a long time, even if it is simply replaced by army units at the front. And the enemy, once again "exchanging territory for time" (which, I am sure, was the plan of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine), "will make his move." However, he will do so. Probably - after the end of the thaw. And - according to the mind - we must prepare to repel their strike, and not continue to exterminate the remnants of the assault infantry near Chasov Yar, Avdeeva and in the Mariinka.

    The latest forecast from Strelkov. I think he's right to be pessimistic. After Bakhmut falls, it's going to take months for the Russians to take another significant Ukrainian city.

    The big question for me is whether Ukraine will have any better success than the Russians when they decide to attack.

    This guy has done a great job in providing intel of the defences that the Russians have been building up in southern Ukraine since last year.

    The task ahead looks very daunting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Rawr


    If Bakmut does eventually fall to the Russians, (and despite the AFU’s increadble efforts I still feel this is very likely), I would not be surprised to find the Battle of Bakmut (2022 - 2023) on a future Wikipedia list of Pyrric victories. The amount of time & effort and bodies the Russians had to throw at this town is titanic compared to the actual strategic value of the town. Its value is mostly symbolic and those dimwits let the AFU butcher their recruits for the sake of that symbolism.

    If they get Bakmut, I hope for that their residency to be short lived, and that their exhaustion from this battle will rob them of the energy needed to withstand an eventual Ukrainian counter offensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,876 ✭✭✭✭Discodog




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    It has begun



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    We will have to disagree then. If Ukraine prevails, Poland won't need the tanks and can receive supplies at leisure, so worst case is a delay; If Russia prevails, they may well need the tanks and there will be a lot of dead Poles as well.

    Denmark did the correct maths and sent them all of their Caesars, Estonia did likewise and sent all of their 155mm Howitzers; Slovakia is considering sending all of it's Mig-29s, bar one for a museum.

    Estonia has done the correct maths and is giving Ukraine 44.6% of it's entire military budget. In all, 11 European countries are giving larger proportions of their defence budgets than is the US. Yes that's off a low base, but thats a different conversation.

    These countries all have a first responsibility to themselves as much as Poland does, but have IMO reasoned correctly that their best protection is to arm Ukraine to the best of their abilities.

    The US should be prioritising Abrams deliveries to Ukraine, not Poland, or Morocco , or it's own armed forces which have ±8,000 Abrams already. There simply is no greater need than in Ukraine, whose inevitable success is a stupid and potentially deadly assumption to be making.

    Never underestimate the enemy. There is a lot of cocky bravado going on that Ukraine is doing so well, victory is all but in the bag, no need for fighter jets, or anything advanced since it's clear they will defeat Russia just with the 1990's era weapons, with a bit of precision added, being parsimoniously drip fed to them. I hope that's right and am as susceptible to the hype and promise from Ukrainian successes as anyone, but it's potentially a deadly assumption. The Ukrainian security forces have managed to nab around 600 FSB agents and saboteurs so far, if they miss some who discover the locations of most of Ukraine's handful of advanced AA batteries...

    The stripy bit I added is roughly the total US funding to Ukraine (it overlays the end of the US bar). While a lot is done to talk it up and make it seem like a lot, it really isn't in the scheme of things.

    And it's not just me who thinks it's not enough:

    General Ben Hodges ret.

    General David Petraeus ret.

    Admiral James G. Stavridis, former commander-in-chief of NATO forces in Europe.

    General Christopher G. Cavoli, Supreme commander of NATO in Europe.

    All of them have urged fighter jets and more in general be provided sooner, rather than later, so I'd be surprised if they wouldn't think as I do on the Abrams question.



This discussion has been closed.
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