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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Do you work for the Government Press Office by any chance? A series of posts with quotes and links that read just like that :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So realistically if we decided that ESB were going to build and own the wind generation- what could the EU actually do about it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    France did not ‘nationalize its energy market’. It bought back the 16 percent of debt-laden EDF which it did not own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    I'm no expert but there is some subtle distinction between multi-player private markets and situations where there is basically one SOE monopoly. The citation of EU competition law in this case looks like the typical case of a national politician looking for an excuse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    The aim of current green policies (not only the Green party) is to stop populations consuming primary energy sources (oil, gas, coal, nuclear) and only permit access to a single secondary energy source (electricity). That secondary energy source can only be provided by intermittent generation from wind and solar with any surplus stored in batteries for later use or used to convert water by electrolysis into its constituent elements hydrogen and oxygen (marketed as green hydrogen). Burning wood, or biofuels is acceptable, these are blessed as "sustainable". Not satisfied with C02, the new satanic gases are methane (CH4) and Nitrogen gases (NxOx), it's not just 'Hippie crack', so far they ignore Sulphur Hexaflouride (SF6). The green fatwa on the new satanic gases are being used to support the narrative of banning meat consumption (cows belching and fertiliser use) and introducing traffic congestion charge (low emission zones) and the new fad, 15 minute neighbourhoods in urban areas.

    Energy is life, our ability to access it is what sustains us. The decisions made 10 years ago have begun to take effect, oil and gas schemes take 7 to 10 years to bring online, and by the end of this decade Ireland is looking at serious gas shortage, with no buffer storage. European countries spent $1 trillion on energy to secure supplies for this Winter, and have to do it all again for next Winter. That spending has made it's way into the cost of production making provision of basics such as food & transport and given how far north we are in the Northern hemisphere, heating, much more expensive.


    These green policies are endorsed by almost every political party in the country. It's not just Ireland, the same policies are evident in the UK and the across the European continental. There policies have no traction among countries in Asia, Africa or South America, these countries are building out their infrastructure using primary energy sources. In 2022-2023 more coal is consumed worldwide per annum that previously and Newcastle coal prices (benchmark) have hit records. Ireland currently uses coal for Moneypoint, they can store 3 months supply at the site. The plan was to shutdown this generating station in 2025, it will instead be converted to burn oil.

    The Government’s Climate Action Plan for 2023, to be published in early December, includes a new commitment to convert Moneypoint from coal to oil. With growing concerns over security of the energy supply in the State, the Government is not in a position to decommission Moneypoint as a fuel-burning station in the near future. Indeed, it will also need to purchase gas-burning jet turbines at a cost of €300 million to be used as emergency backup electricity generators at times of peak demand. source


    A fleet of so-called 'jet engine' emergency power generators have landed in Ireland.

    Termed as such by Environment Minister Eamon Ryan, the multi-million euro generators are designed to act as backup energy supplies for the coming five winters, should they be required.

    They are due to be installed in Dublin's North Wall and in Co Meath, and the contract for their installation has been awarded to ESB.

    Normally used in countries that have been hit by natural disasters or wars, they have been bought by Ireland as a backup during the next five winters. source

    The government ministers and most people at the top in state agencies know full well that they cannot rely on wind and solar generation to keep the lights on. They must maintain two separate infrastructures and the cost will continue to be borne by the consumer, that is why the divergence between actions listed above and words about green future and green jobs. There is a lot of noise in the media about a future green utopia and an entire generation of twenty somethings are coming out of college armed with computer models (MaREI in particular) and buzzwords like sustainable. Meanwhile, the business world is telling us the reality and charging accordingly when they can.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Here's one you probably won't see in the Green propaganda spamming this thread. Thanks to Ryan's opposition to indigenous gas and imported LNG he's now going to have us burning distillate oil instead.





  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You are now claiming there is a shortage of natural gas in Ireland over next three years? That is laughable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    They are also looking at Tarbert, now owned by SSE.

    SSE Thermal is also currently engaged in discussions regarding a potential Temporary Emergency Generation project at Tarbert following a request from the Irish Authorities. That project would provide an additional 150MW of generation capacity to operate in periods when it is clear that market-sourced generation will not be sufficient to meet system needs, and would cease operations no later than March 2028. source

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Sure who knows?

    70% of our NG needs are imported from a non EU country.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Intermittent variable unreliable power generation. https://www.smartgriddashboard.com/#all/wind




    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I will remedy your ignorance and allay your concern. There is no shortage of natural gas in Ireland. It is a fantasy to say that there is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I didn’t say there was a shortage did I?

    You obviously haven’t got a clue what your talking about- ignorant indeed.

    We do indeed import 70% of our NG needs from a non EU country and we have no NG storage to boot.

    This has been covered many times on this thread- do keep up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's also government policy. So what do we do with that?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You clearly claimed that you did not know whether there was a shortage or not, using the words ‘Who knows?’

    This was of course insincere. You know perfectly well that there is not andly shortage and will be no critical shortage of natural gas between now and 2028.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Are you cracked? How about read what I wrote, instead of telling me what I'm claiming. We are going to have eight gas turbines in the wilds of Offaly. They are going there purely because there is an existing grid connection and switchyard for the former peat plant. What there isn't is any gas connection, even though the high pressure pipeline from Corrib (and from Shannon LNG were it to be built) passes within less than 10km. These are open cycle peaker plants and therefore considerably less efficient than CCGT, and they will be burning distillate oil because there is no gas supply.

    Ryan is the grinch of energy supply. He knows he can't get away without new generation because the CRU is telling him we have an electricity supply crisis. However, he wants to build just enough to stave off actual blackouts but without committing to any medium or longer term fossil fuel generation. So he's going to build these inefficient and uneconomic boondoggles. They'll only get to generate for 500 hours per year (a 5% capacity factor!) and it will require legislation to extend their lives beyond 2027. That's right, they will be junked after 2,000 hours of operation. (Except they won't, because I suspect our generating margins will be a disaster by then, thanks to Ryan. The likelihood is that these things will run much longer and much more often than Ryan desperately wants).

    What we should be building is a load more baseload CCGT. And we absolutely need to diversify the gas supply to include both LNG and the two indigenous offshore gas prospects that still have exploration licenses. Ryan with his delusions of a windpowered utopia needs to be jettisoned before he does irreparable economic harm to the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Speaking of wind power ... there hasn't been any worth speaking of for the past week. No doubt the country has been running on batteries ... not. Right now our electricity generation mix is 67% gas, 10% coal, 15% imports, and 5% renewables. On the upside, the temperatures have been above average for much of the winter (that's about to change) and there hasn't been a single named winter storm (compared to an average of 3 each winter season since 2015). If this is climate change I'm all for it (spoiler: it isn't, unless you play the weather attribution science game, but I prefer to leave that to the climate zealots).




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This article does a great job of explaining why the likes of the Green Party wield such power and get so many policies enacted





  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Hardly groundbreaking journalism now is it. Martin would have sold his own mother for a tilt at the top job and not be the only party leader to not get the gig. To their shame both Martin and Leo have allowed the countries future to be hamstrung by a bunch of zealots.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    They’re only needed 500 hours a year though, at most, maybe?

    building capital intensive CCGT plants to run a few hundred hours a year would be daft, especially with the prospect of ever higher gas+carbon prices.

    if we were to leave the EU to avoid carbon pricing (which is what you are really angling at) how would we meet our international obligations if we did what you describe?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    competive electricity markets where French electricity can be sold on an equal footing with locally generated electricity in Spain, Italy and Germany (and one day, Ireland) are the bedrock of a French electricity policy. Without this right to compete France would no longer have a market for its excess nuclear power.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We're about to see a major step up in tackling emissions from Transport through demand management strategies which are to be implemented through the Annex of Actions for the latest Climate Action Plan

    These include, but are not limited to, Congestion charges, huge increases in parking costs, fuel charges, reduced cost and greater provision of public transport etc.

    I don't think these will be the only measures. We're likely to see workplace parking levies coming in, emission zones etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Compo82


    This will just kill off city centres, people won't bother coming into cities and more people will just work at home.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This will just kill off city centres, people won't bother coming into cities

    All evidence to the contrary



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Keep in mind it is watermelons Greenies we are taking about here. Economics has never been one of their strong points. Back in 2012 when I lived in Bristol it was predicted the CPZ would wreck businesses. Low and behold when I was there last weekend some commercial units on Park Street are now derelict.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Hopefully there will be severe pushback from the Coalition here. What this will achieve:

    * Punish middle and low earners

    * Destroy struggling city centre businesses

    * Annoy people and make them even more cynical

    What this will not achieve:

    * Any meaningful outcome in trying to halt climate change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Are there any green initiatives that don't require fleecing us citizens?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Nermal



    There's no requirement to leave the EU, no possibility of being forced to exit, and the EU doesn't have any leverage over a member who is a net contributor. These 'obligations' can just be ignored.

    Comical to see some reality dawn with the proposals today in relation to car usage. You're sold a futuristic vision of silent, clean personal transportation on empty roads: you end up with crowded cities full of people cycling everywhere.

    Isn't it funny how a zero-cabon world looks so similar to the third world?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This will go the same as every other proposal leaked in advance, a long list of things will be taken to cabinet (a wish list) and half will get signed off.

    You get more by going in with a bigger list and some extreme proposals added to it for people to push against, that way when you drop the ones they are most resistant about but get a long list of other ones over the line, everyone can claim a victory.

    If he went in with 25 items on the list, he'd walk out with 12 signed off. Better to walk in with 50 and get 25 and be able to say the 25 have full support at cabinet. Ensures a lot of resistance melts away as those 25 will have multi-party support

    So parking charge increases might not get over the line, but blanket removal of on-street parking in the 5 cities might and so on.



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