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Reflection on the pandemic: questions about the authorities' response.

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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Who would have thought that a member of NPHET would be more anti restrictions than most of us and admits most of the things that people labelled us far right lunatics for suggesting.

    We really need an inquiry and to see what the other 30 odd nodding dogs in NPHET thought.

    I remember they were all happy with level 3 and Tony came back demanding level 5 immediately.


    Maybe the inquiry needs to focus on things like that. We need agreement going forward, not a dictator type situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Notice the unanimity across the media/FFG/public health doctors in wanting the Covid review to be brief and not involve any accountability. Gabriel Scally was in fact wondering if perhaps the review might be best held in private... he wishes ;-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I heard that interview on radio today . Gabriel Scally in fact said the opposite .

    Why am I not surprised that you are misrepresenting that perfectly reasonable and intelligent interview ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Why is he therefore quoted as saying this:

    “It is important we learn lessons from what went right and what went wrong so that we can prepare better in the future. Whether it needs a full public inquiry with the amount of time that would take,” he said. 

    “In many ways inquiries are best when they are not in public when people can speak their mind behind closed doors. You often get closer to the truth then having it all in public. So, I think it is a difficult decision to make.”

    It’s also notable that he doesn’t want any scapegoats or people blamed. He was a member of ISAG who were openly and blatantly spreading fear in the Irish media.




  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How convenient?

    Do it all in private and don't hold anybody accountable.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    I remember people getting banned for calling new strains 'scariants'.

    Turns out that Matt Hancock confirms what those people thought.




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,181 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Scally did a great job of the Cervical Check inquiry.

    He said a private inquiry for the Covid response would get more truths. He said if it's public, people will "lawyer up" and be efficient with their information.

    I think he is right. If you go blame-storming, it will quickly become a farce.

    The good thing is that all politicians want a review to take place.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,181 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Good discussion on Brendan O'Connor show on the Covid response retrospective.

    I think there is no doubt that any inquiry will find that children suffered the most and the schools were closed for way too long.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    Pete Lunn very defensive on the Brendan O’Connor show.I wonder why.the truth is slowly starting to come out



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    ISAG were just the experts who were frustrated over not being invited into the tent. (Prof Nolan as head of epidemiology data modelling group was especially galling for so many.) Not one to easily relinquish the public gaze, Scally is still sniffing around for a role on the Covid review. He's dropping soundbites - best to review in private, no witch-hunt, Sweden's Covid public health disaster, cross-border cooperation - attempting to show he'll be a good "team player" LOL!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Just heard Prof Hilary Humphreys on This Week where he executed exact same script as Scally (without the awkward attempts to connect with the audience by sharing personal stories). He could.not.have.sounded.less.convincing ;-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Big difference in what is quoted by you there and what he is talking about which would be delays and inevitable nitpicking and media circus if completely held in public. That is not to say he called for a PRIVATE inquiry.

    And before you tar him with the ISAG brush remember he was the man who has expetience of dealing with a public enquiry and how best it works. It is the reason he was being asked his opinion in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    This quoting of those dingbats over the pond proves what exactly?

    That they were complete buffoons who pulled the wool over the British public's eyes for their own gain.??

    We know that already since the farce that was Brexit, and the British public know that now.

    Those posters continually quoting " the British response" through the pandemic here and wanting us to follow them, are very quiet about that now, while slating our own response, which wasn't perfect but was a damn sight better than the UKs.

    Don't be trying to conflate the two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭fm


    so the UK government behind the scenes wanted to scare the public in order to change their behavior,luckily for us NPHET and co didn't have to resort to anything like that,you know like instilling fear and worry into the public,they could have even charted it's progress every week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭fm




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Entitled to your opinion.

    His, however, is an experienced one, having run the Cervical Check inquiry.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Maybe this was mentioned before, but did anybody see this article a few weeks back?

    It would appear that it is not just in Ireland that the decision makers and the process are being retrospectively questioned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,519 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I think something has gone wrong in your statistics there if you think that there wasn't many more deaths the common cold?

    The response was based on science, which is not a static thing - there was uncertainty \ evolving understanding of a new respiratory virus. The virus itself evolved over the course of the pandemic. And the uncertainty wasn't helped by early misinformation from China.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,519 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Irish Independent poll.

    70% think that overall Ireland did a good job in dealing with Covid / 23% disagree

    52% NPHET has the right amount of power / 39% too much power / 4% not enough power

    Of those polled, 47pc said an immediate inquiry into the handling of the pandemic should be set up, while 38pc said No, and 15pc said they were unsure.

    The poll was carried out among a sample of 1,162 people with a margin of error of +/- 2.9pc. 

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/most-of-us-believe-ireland-did-a-good-job-with-covid-but-worry-about-the-ongoing-impact-of-lockdowns-on-children-sunday-independent-poll-42370292.html

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)





  • One way or the other NPHET and government and authorities were going to get considerable criticism from either side. Everybody has their own vested interests, some of them having been simply to survive the pandemic, others to progress with their lives.

    It was a very cruel time for many people, and I know those who have badly suffered the psychological consequences. I was extremely frustrated by the restrictions, and whilst being totally compliant at first, my compliance was wearing thin at the end, except I have avoided Covid and much else too by mask wearing 😁

    The only time I might have had Covid was at the very commencement of the outbreak when I got very sick feverish, dizzy, and really struggling for breath on a trip to Namibia. Lockdown commenced when I was out there and I got back via last flight out of Windhoek. I phoned out of hours fox when I got home and she simply asked me “what do you want me to do about it?” I was literally gasping, but she totally ignored me and told me to contact own doctor after the weekend, and I was too young then to qualify for a test. Ireland was not at all prepared for what was happening. A very poor country like Namibia was making every effort, they were literally disinfecting and cleaning everywhere for what it was worth. The country was smelling of bleach. Flying through South Africa and Qatar they were taking things seriously there too.

    During the earlier pandemic I found it very irritating being told of daily figures & deaths, it was just horrible. Once a week should have sufficed as we just became so obsessed nonstop with the stats. Thankfully I lost nobody close to me during this time, but for those who did it was the cruellest of times. Indeed a cousin in California lost her husband finally with Covid although he had a major underlying issue that really killed him, and she wasn’t able to visit him at all in the hospital. She wasn’t even able to speak to him by phone as he had grown too weak to manage a phone conversation.

    The pub meal thing became a farce, so much of it was. I remember being in a taxi coming home from a visit to A&E over something (unable to visit GP) and the taxi was stopped by a Garda and I was questioned why I was out and about. I understand the overall reasoning was to keep Covid deaths down, but it was at a huge cost to society, and indeed had a lot more deaths happened I would have been calling for serious restrictions myself. It’s hard to know what the right balance should have been. I am quite sure a lot of early treatable cancers have been missed on account of the restricted access to medicine, and these will surely come to light in a proliferation of both cancer deaths and protracted treatments to prolong life in the not too distant future



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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A poll of around 0.02% of the population.

    And even then 39% of those think NPHET had too much power and two thirds worry about the horrible impact to the kids.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,519 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Em that's how polls work. A random sampling within a margin of error. So even within the margin of error it shows a clear and overwhelming majority of the public backed the response overall.

    A political opinion polls is also only around a similar to 0.02% of the population and yet broadly - within the margin of error - tallies with the actual overall vote %. Even if you double the margin of error on this poll you still have a clear majority in favour of Ireland's approach.

    This poll is also in line with polls conducted by different media outlets \ poll providers showing approval for Ireland's approach.

    It is the usual resort of someone who doesn't like the poll result to roll out the basic misunderstanding of how they work tactic. What will the next poll bingo deflection you'll roll out next?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What was the exact question asked? Seems a bit vague to just ask if we did a good job or not...

    Especially if almost 40% are saying NPHET had too much power and 66% have big worries about the horrible treatment of kids.


    Seems like people have huge issues with the response.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,519 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Did Ireland a good job overall in dealing with Covid 19.

    Not vague. Getting a sense of how the public viewed the pandemic response.

    So no it doesnt support your view people had huge issues with the response. Some people perhaps but clearly not the majority.

    Given the overwhelming majority backed it overall. If you had a huge issue you would not answer yes to that question. You may have issues with specific points.

    If they asked more specific questions people would say oh they are leading questions, deliberately worded to get the answer they wanted.

    There was no question about the 'horrible treatment of kids'. That is misrepresentation.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    For me, I couldn't say we did a good job but also couldn't say it was a bad job. It's in-between.

    We did ok in terms of deaths.

    But we had way too many lockdowns/restrictions for way too long that had huge negative impacts. We borrowed way too much money. Our actions were too harmful to children etc etc. We could have easily achieved the same number of deaths with less than half the restrictions.

    There should be a 3rd option for did ok but could have done so much better.


    Any honest poll would add such an option and not force a yes or no.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    The Pfizer vaccine was and is the profitable product in human history. At one stage they were making 1000 dollars profit a second.

    Oxfam heading 2021 :

    "Pfizer, BioNTech and Moderna making $1,000 profit every second while world’s poorest countries remain largely unvaccinated"

    American taxpayers paid for the research of the vaccine

    German and EU tax payers paid for the research of the Biontech vaccine.


    Both companies made obscene amounts of profit.

    How many others made obscene fortunes through deals and the like using public money.

    There were companies in Ireland that were given multi million euro contracts for equipment etc. Some of the owners of these companies are politically connected.

    It's a shame no journalist would be interested in digging around



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Politically connected? That's a British problem. Ireland is still in the EU and so EU law on contracts for provision of goods and services makes such a scandal much less likely here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Yes, certainly , retrospectively ...with the knowledge of hindsight , not just conjecture .



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,317 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    The ridiculous policy to keep windows wide open on freezing cold days was called out as inhumane and unnecessary at the time and yet teachers and principals seemed happy to inflict this misery on the kids.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I don't disagree and said so myself at the time. However despite calls from teachers and parents the DoE never did anything about ventilation in schools when they had the chance. Buck stops there I think .

    What my point was that it is knowledge in hindsight that has many questions now as opposed to previously when anything anybody may have said was pure conjecture .



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