rubbish cycle lanes

aldark · 02-03-2023 3:54pm #1

I was taking a new route home last night and happened to go up cypress grove road - this is between KCR and templeogue. Google maps here . What an unbelievably bad design, the lane swoops in between 4 side roads, forcing you to yield at each one. I think this was put in a few years ago. There's a few new versions of this though - this one here on the grange road in rathfarnham is brand new, part of the busconnects works, that lane also forces you to to yield at the end. I particularly like the way the designers assume that anyone waiting for a bus wouldn't be on the red part of the foot path, and that taking a chicane at 25km/h with your workgear on the back would be just handy.

What would you do on these roads - cycle on the road and get close passed/beeped out of it, or grin and bear it.

Who could I point out the bad designs to? Who'd be interested in the moans of a cyclist? Obviously it would be great if there was a representative body who could take concerns to the council(s).

magicbastarder · 02-03-2023 3:57pm

is the roundabout behind where the camera is pointing when you open that link, the one where a woman was killed about 5 years ago?

aldark · 02-03-2023 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306165#Comment_120306165

I don't think it's that one - that was at the next roundabout up toward walkinstown (junction with whitehall road). These roundabouts take up a lot of room on the road, I noticed that a car on the main road going a bit too fast may not be able to see a slower moving cyclist coming out of the minor road. But whatever about dangerous roads, actually spending money on cycle infrastructure that's dangerous is unbelievably counter productive. To me it looks like the design is coming from the mindset of getting cyclists out of the way of cars rather than trying to sensibly integrate them, and forcing traffic to move slower.

aldark · 02-03-2023 4:51pm

Look at this one here too - again in Rathfarnham and part of the busconnects thing. You're turning right off a busy road, and almost immediately are supposed to swing left behind a bus stop. You might have a right head of speed on you from getting across the road, then sharpish left turn and trying to avoid people who may be waiting for a bus, oh and a junction a few metres after it? I don't think anyone would use this.

2011abc · 02-03-2023 5:56pm

Most bike lanes are rubbish and few ‘real cyclists ‘ would use them for fear of punctures ( and constant stop/starts at junctions etc)

finnyob · 02-03-2023 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058286565/rubbish-cycle-lanes

Honestly, if the bike lane isn't fit for purpose, I'd take the road. You can report this stuff to your local councillors, and ask that they raise it in the council meeting, better still if you have a local residents association get them to do it. Our residents association, of which I'm a committee member, generally get a good response from SDCC on local matters. There's a lot of work going on in the templeogue area as the council have budget for their safer routes to school, cypress grove road maybe doesn't factor in due to existing bike paths, however, they may be open to submissions re. improvements.

Flinty997 · 02-03-2023 8:04pm

Can you route around it?

fatbhoy · 03-03-2023 10:51am

I only use cycle lanes when it suits me, which is very seldom. I don't care if motorists beep me. If they try to punishment close pass me then I'd make consequences for them when possible.

aldark · 03-03-2023 2:42pm

Thanks for that, and yes, I could re-route, but if the road is nice and long with not that many traffic lights, why should I !! I'm really thinking about how active travel users - like cyclists - could help inform local authorities, TII whoever, that if you're building cycling lanes they should be thinking about their own cycle & transport guidelines - I've seen references to some kind of manual for this which is much more like the netherlands than what we'll ever have.

I absolutely take the point that we could go and talk to local councils and neighbourhood associations. But there's a really high bar to this - you cyclists want built infrastructure to protect you from motorists - we've built it - now why don't you go and use it and stop complaining. This attitude leads to some motorists being outraged that the cyclist should be on the cycle lane etc.

I don't think CI are into this space at all, focusing on the actual sport, so there's definitely a gap of representation here. I don't remember the busconnects project asking for submissions about cycle lane design. so how else to contribute to the discussion?

breezy1985 · 03-03-2023 2:47pm

Unless it's very late at night and I know the paths will be empty I won't use an on path cycle lane like this one.

Flinty997 · 03-03-2023 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309736#Comment_120309736

Fair enough.

Chips Lovell · 03-03-2023 3:01pm

My neighbourhood. Know it well. If I'm on my own I'll take the road. With the kids I'll take the track.

To be honest, there's no such thing as a perfect cycle lane. The drawback of this one is that it's slow going. But at least it's relatively non-hazardous, unlike the cycle lane circumventing the roundabout at the end of that road which you regularly see accidents on.

Tombo2001 · 03-03-2023 3:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306576#Comment_120306576

'real cyclists'?

Please.

Tombo2001 · 03-03-2023 3:04pm

There are two categories:

Badly designed and badly constructed.

Griffith Avenue is an example. They recently added on another bit (3 years into the project)....the problem is that they just put down some brown asphalt over the existing road surface. It is so damn bumpy. And meanwhile two feet to the right there is a lovely smooth road surface.

RobertFoster · 03-03-2023 3:08pm

Speaking of rubbish cycle lanes, this newly built one looks interesting 😜

magicbastarder · 03-03-2023 3:10pm

is that approachnig ratoath from the curragha direction?

Tombo2001 · 03-03-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309865#Comment_120309865

In Spain recently wasnt there a scandal over govt buying trains that were too wide for tunnels....

Thats not even the width of a bike.

And also dangerous as so close to the road - would you put a 7 year old on that.

Would you be happy with a bus and its big massive side mirror swinging by you?

RobertFoster · 03-03-2023 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309869#Comment_120309869

That's right. I assume new builds are required to have cycle facilities in order to get planning permission. Quantity over quality it seems.

magicbastarder · 03-03-2023 3:19pm

Yep, there's a new 'orphan' cycle lane at the new warehouse development at kilshane cross too, which is useless for cyclists turning right at the junction.

Paddigol · 03-03-2023 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309865#Comment_120309865

That's some superb box-ticking work right there. "What's that Joe, we have to provide a cycle lane? No bother, leave it with me... TICK... there ya are now Joe, send that certificate off to the local authority now when ya get a chance..."

RobertFoster · 03-03-2023 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309898#Comment_120309898

Orphan's a good name for them. The unwanted red-~~headed-~~painted stepchild. Will the one on the other side of the road at Kilshane go somewhere eventually I wonder?

I tried another Perfectly Good™ cycle lane last year leaving Dunshaughlin. It starts off OKish:

It was somewhat segregated from the path by a kerb, had a nice surface, no yielding to entrances... Then I got to the end:

I thought about jumping off the (non-dished) kerb to continue on straight, but ended up going into the estate a couple of hundred metres to turn around:

They're definitely box-ticking exercises when it comes to new build integration. I doubt anyone on two wheels tested or checked the boxes though. You'd wonder what else is being built and ticked off as "good enough".

Macy0161 · 03-03-2023 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309832#Comment_120309832

I'm obviously not "real" either, as generally do use them. But the ceding priority really shows they designed with motorists, not cyclists, in mind. There's not even consistency within Local Authority areas in my experience either.

07Lapierre · 03-03-2023 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306576#Comment_120306576

Cycle lanes in Ireland seem to have this type of cyclist in mind:

https://www.canstockphoto.com/mother-and-child-on-bicycle-49519176.html

If you look at them with this image in mind, they kinda make sense. But as for the typical "Commuter" type cyclist, they are nearly always totally unsuitable. The only bike lane i can think of that is suitable for all type of cyclists is this one: https://goo.gl/maps/Dpr7BN3QofCC2SAT6

2011abc · 04-03-2023 10:24am

I knew the one you meant near Howth before even checking 07Lapierre! Mind you I’d still use the road there most of the time .As for the ‘real cyclist ‘ thing , as this thread is in the Sports section I assumed it was more aimed at ‘non casual’ cyclists .I guessed the majority of posters were racers, MTB-ers, sportivers (Although I’m barely coming to terms with those guys and the fact that there are now double digit numbers of female cyclists in the country !) bike mechanics etc etc ….Apologies for being a dinosaur floundering in an alien world of €10k cargo bikes and €18k Colnago’s .One of the saddest sights is a mother struggling to carry her kid/s on a bike when you know she would be in a car if she could afford it .Anyway Steel is real , bring back the toe strap etc

OKDublin · 04-03-2023 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309865#Comment_120309865

They need to do some user research first and get out on bikes and experience cyclists pain points before being let anywhere near designing them.

OKDublin · 04-03-2023 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058286565/rubbish-cycle-lanes

You could try @ibikedublin or Dublin Cycling Campaign.

vintcerf · 05-03-2023 7:07am

from thread on Dublin reddit posted yesterday

magicbastarder · 05-03-2023 8:53am

What is it? Or why does it need to be there?

cletus · 05-03-2023 9:35am

Looks like an electrical junction box of some sort. Probably linked to the ones beside the path.

Most likely there before the cycle lane went in, and instead of moving it while doing the rest of the work, the lads put bollards around it and said "be grand"

saccades · 05-03-2023 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309736#Comment_120309736

Cycling Ireland, helping anyone who isn't a road racer?

vintcerf · 05-03-2023 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315750#Comment_120315750

yeah it was there before

OKDublin · 05-03-2023 8:25pm

Might have be intending to come back and fix and it got forgotten about. Is it Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown? Might be worth reminding them.

standardg60 · 05-03-2023 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120316389#Comment_120316389

Was put in afterwards, which makes it even worse. You can see the trench cut into the cycle lane which was tarred over.

cletus · 05-03-2023 9:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318556#Comment_120318556

You can see it in the photo that vintcerf posted. If you count the flagstones for the crossing, it's the same number from the kerb in both photos

I'd say the trench was afterwards too.

standardg60 · 05-03-2023 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318749#Comment_120318749

It's in the same place but it's not the same pole, latest one is diagonal to the road and clearly brand new, the original one is parallel.

I'm no expert but if they had to cut a trench to do whatever connection why couldn't they move the effing thing to the grass verge?

cletus · 05-03-2023 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318823#Comment_120318823

Ah, ok. We're at cross purposes here. I agree completely that it should have been moved, particularly because they've installed new junction boxes on the grass verge.

My point was just that, replaced or not, someone decided that location was just fine. Which is absolutely **** ridiculous, and as a friend of mine said when I showed him the pictures, whoever signed off on it should be made come down and do the manual labour to rectify it

standardg60 · 05-03-2023 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318919#Comment_120318919

And as usual given we're dealing with state bodies here, a review will be conducted, questions will be asked, and lessons will be learnt, but there's not a chance in hell whoever is responsible will face any consequences

magicbastarder · 05-03-2023 11:16pm

it can happen quickly - if you flick back from this to an older photo, you'll see the bus stop has moved.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3836528,-6.391777,3a,75y,253.93h,77.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_Or3bOgy73nO_wQYtLc6JA!2e0!5s20220401T000000!7i16384!8i8192

that happened after my dad watched a woman with a double buggy trying to get it between the bus stop and the bin, and having to half hang it out into the road to get past. he sent a stinker of a mail to dublin bus and within a couple of days was meeting a senior engineer who basically said 'yeah, this is a **** up' and it was moved within a week or two.

Seth Brundle · 06-03-2023 12:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319048#Comment_120319048

...and that kind of sums up the sloppy approach by many of our utility companies & LAs. We are happy allowing infrastructure be designed and built with no input from those it is actually intended for.

vintcerf · 20-03-2023 5:51am

This turning lane dumps you into traffic

both cycle and normal traffic lights turn green at the same time ...

OKDublin · 20-03-2023 1:35pm

Green arrow straight ahead, red turn left arrow - not adhered to.

The above is common in the Dundrum/Churchtown area.

I have consistently seen people in cars either ignore or not understand the red turn left arrow. When I am either walking across the road or cycling straight through the junction approaching the Dropping Well from Milltown, cars turn left on top of me, even though there is a red arrow. Same happens at left turn onto Beaumont Ave from Churchtown Rd Upper (ie at Bottletower pub). Do they misunderstand a red arrow or get confused with the green arrow straight and interpret it as a green for all. I have to say the first time I saw this kind of light it confused me.

Pawwed Rig · 20-03-2023 1:50pm

I had the misfortune of cycling from UCD into the city a couple of weeks ago. The cycle path there is brutal

OKDublin · 20-03-2023 3:13pm

On-street cycle lanes in the Netherlands

https://youtu.be/8-h7OdlviKo

vintcerf · 20-03-2023 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379872#Comment_120379872

drivers cannot park their vehicles on the cycle lanes - If wishes were horses ...

Paddigol · 22-03-2023 6:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379872#Comment_120379872

It's amazing how complicated the powers that be in Ireland make the provision of cycle lanes. As shown in that video (and as I've experienced first hand in Belgium), they don't require complex feats of engineering and construction to install. The big difference between the two countries is the extent to which they are embraced in a meaningful fashion. Over here it seems that they're prepared to throw huge sums of money at building not-fit-for-purpose cycling infrastructure just so that a) they can say that they did, and b) they don't have to impinge on existing motoring infrastructure. In other words, they don't really care about moving towards more cycling-friendly urban/ suburban areas and they prefer to see motoring and non-motoring use of the roads as competing forms of transport.

It's really not rocket science.

wheelo01 · 07-04-2023 12:08pm

The cycle lane outside Cclonskeagh motors is being refinished or laid for the first time.

I've come off ybe bike broken 4 ribs, one collarbone and fractured a skull...... sh1t show

eeeee · 09-04-2023 9:13pm

Shyte get well soon Wheelo01, sounds painful.

newmember2 · 09-04-2023 9:56pm

Going by the bike symbols, is this a contra-flow cycle lane or did they just put them on the wrong way round?

Edit: ahh...it's a two-way cycle lane?

AndrewJRenko · 09-04-2023 10:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460134#Comment_120460134

Where is it?

On the more general topic, it’s awful to see such poor quality with this brand new scheme

https://twitter.com/irishcycle/status/1645145867802779650?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

Seth Brundle · 10-04-2023 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461101#Comment_120461101

Maybe it's just far away!

Squidgy Black · 10-04-2023 2:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460156#Comment_120460156

That merge back into the road at the start of his video is abysmal, plus the pinch point it creates after that junction, I don’t know how anyone can say that’s sufficient infrastructure

rubbish cycle lanes

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