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Reflection on the pandemic: questions about the authorities' response.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    I guess that the pub meal requirement limited the number of people going to the pub (i.e. affordability) and meant that those who went had the alcohol soaked up by the food that they consumed and so were less likely to throw caution to the wind.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It wasn't a meal requirement. You had to spend an arbitrary 9 euro. It didn't stop people going to the pub.

    It just meant you had to buy a portion of wings or something similar to stay.

    It wasn't mandatory to eat what you were forced to purchase either.


    That was science in Ireland. The presence of some food alone was apparently enough to prevent COVID.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,514 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That and about plonking you down at the same socially distanced table with the same set of people rather than mingling and moving around with your drink. That's the science behind it, the R factor of respiratory diseases interactions of an infected person, and their transmission over (social) distances based on respiratory droplet dispersal and duration of exposure increasing risk of infection.

    NPHET's original recommendation was to only open restaurants, not pubs\gastropubs, for the above reasons. And so that restaurants would be available for essential workers.

    Florida had similar rules for a while in only allowing places to open who pre-covid were making most of their revenue from food.

    The government tried to be accommodating wrt gastropubs and see the abuse it gets them. Given Irish attitudes to following alcohol related laws the government should have expected the nonsense and loophole hunting that followed.

    I've been to lunches \ dinners on the continent and at busy times the places will have rules like if you want a drink you have to buy a main course. No big deal. Maybe instead of the existing 'substantial meal' set at €9 it should have been based on a main course from their pre-covid menu or somesuch. Or just gone with NPHET's original recommendation.

    The main point, with regard to this thread, is that this will be one for the Government to explain, as much as NPHET.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,179 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Agreed. Norma Foley and the dept of Education were a disaster throughout Covid.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Our pubs were closed for longer than any other country in the world. Leo even admitted this.

    Maybe we didn't need to recommend their closure. Maybe we didn't need nonsense rules?


    Crazy idea here... We could have just opened?

    But no, we had to be the outlier.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,514 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Which is it? This is a bit of a shotgun.

    Do you think pubs should have been allowed to open without restrictions all throughout the pandemic? That seems to be implication of 'maybe we didn't need to recommend their closure'. Pubs are a high risk location for transmission. Do you want to show us 'the science' that says otherwise?

    Many other countries closed pubs too at times and some (France or Italy I think) re-opened establishments only until 7pm or 9pm, allowing time for dinner serving but not later drinking. That was 'the science' there.

    So we have a situation where public health experts in many countries, looked at hospitality and said, this is a high risk setting for an infectious respiratory disease, we need to remove or limit the risk here somehow.

    So we were not an outlier in closing them \ putting limits on their operation.

    Somebody has to be the country with X restricted longer than anyone else, that's just how lists work. In and of itself it doesn't mean anything.

    We also have a high proportion of 'wet' pubs compared to some other countries, where establishments are more mixed use, it's about family and group meals and there's less mingling.

    I think pubs should have opened up earlier for outdoors in 2020 for example.

    The safest thing to do would have been to go with NPHET's recommendation for restaurants only / perhaps with the early closing idea to limit the risk in these high risk venues pre vaccines.

    The close contact \ R factor for a group of people mingling and drinking in a pub is going to be different for a group sat together at the same (socially distanced) table for a meal. That's the science behind it. Maybe it wasn't practicable to put that into practice in our drinking culture. But I've explained the rationale behind it. And all the things I've said here will likely be what you will hear when this comes up in the proposed inquiry.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We could have closed them only at times when we were in a wave and there was actually valid concerns around hospital numbers. For example Mar/Apr 2020 and Jan 2021. That would be understandable.

    That's what almost every other country in the world did. Reopened as soon as it was ok.

    Ireland was the outlier again though. Nonsense restrictions for way too long.


    We were the outlier throughout.

    The longest restrictions. The longest pubs closed. The only country to turn down the Euro's etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    At the time it was suspected Tony Holohan and others on NPHET had an anti-pub agenda. The way they kept moving the goal posts was real manna for the CT lot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Remember the garda public order unit baton charging young people drinking on the street.

    Absolute thugs



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,514 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Every gathering was a potential "super spreader" event. From sports to funerals

    Unless it was a "BLM" knee fest. That one was different 🙄



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think the main thing the inquiry needs to focus on is the sheer duration of our restrictions compared to Europe.

    It was extremely damaging to the country and we need to ensure we are more aligned going forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,972 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Or the anti alcohol conference that Tony hosted here in late March 2019 while every other event was cancelled. That one was fine though.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,179 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I think the length of our lockdowns was directly related to our hospital capacity or lack thereof. We have one of the highest capacity utilisation rates in the OECD so whenever there is a surge, we simple cannot cope. It happens every single winter. That's on the successive governments.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    So the latest stats show that Sweden had the lowest excess mortality rates in Europe between 2020-2022. Maybe we should have copied them?




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    They were absolute thugs, running on cars, throwing bottles at people trying to have a bit of lunch, setting bins on fire.

    Thankfully we have the public order unit to deal with these thugs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,295 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    It really must stick in the craws of the lockdown-merchants how a fellow EU country was able to avoid so much covid-theater nonsense and come of of it better.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sweden continues to be really problematic for those who think the bodies would have piled up in the streets without restrictions.

    This is exactly what the senior member of NPHET was getting at though. Short term decisions based on cases/deaths with no regard for the longer term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    I am sure RTE prime time will be on this story like a rash and ask the hard questions to our authorities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,295 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    An Article from the Irish edition of yesterdays Sunday Times reported that number of Irish men with suspected prostate cancer rose by 23% while lung cancer diagnosis is up by 20% since 2019. The Irish Cancer society has noted these increases are almost certainly due to delayed diagnosis due to Covid.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Still are, but mainly Norma 🙄 she is either never available for comment or if she is she manages to not say anything of any interest or value , a perfect politician ! Everything she does ends up rejected or reversed , a complete waste of space.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You'd have to wonder just how many people have been subjected to death due to us needlessly cancelling screenings just in case the hospital numbers increase.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,137 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Flinty997 threadbanned



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    One area the government need to act on ASAP is the obesity crisis that’s gripping this country.

    Let them run adverts 24/7 of obese people struggling to walk and the heart disease wards get that worry meter going overtime.

    increase taxes on all junk food, stop giving money back voucher in Supermarkets if you buy junk food in your shopping like what they do with drink. Junk food only isles and and blocked off like the drink isles.

    Plain packaging on all junk food, pictures of clogged arteries like they do with cigarettes.

    Ban on e-scooters and e-bikes for all under 18s nothing but overweight people using them.

    use the extra tax money generated to provide mobile workshop to disadvantaged areas to show people how to cook and educate them on nutrition and effects of junk on their bodies.

    Add more physical education into the primary curriculum and teach kids how to feed themselves and effects food has on your body and mind.


    Start now, but I fear it’s too late for this country move heaven and earth like they did with the virus the population has never been sicker get the finger out and get off your arses.

    Stay safe..

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Coming back to this.

    As now reported in the Finnish Media, Finland had almost Double Excess mortality compared to Sweden during the Pandemic. Can Finland be considered a 'peer' of Sweden?

    Edit: Sorry, Didn't see Flinty was banned @odyssey06 This was actually a reply to one of your points about 'peers'. Any comments?



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Poor people can't afford fresh nutritious food. Junk and processed food is cheaper.

    They are trapped and with the cost of living ever increasing more people will end up in this trap.

    I'm working poor myself and don't eat as healthy as I should and could.

    Different if you have 2 or 3 mouths to feed



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Don't understand what happened there . 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,089 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Yeah , true and there aren't any tomatoes and cucumbers to be got even ...

    Very hard for families for a while now .



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,137 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    jacdaniel2014 threadbanned



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,514 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I would like to see the actual figures / source and if they are age standardised. I have seen a lot of excess mortality figures over the course of the pandemic and they are not always comparing like with like.

    If the figures do hold up my previous points about Swedens approach not scaling, piggybacking on their neighbours and having advantages wrt density, ICU and voluntary buy in from the population adhering to advice etc still stand as far as Im concerned.

    They did a good job with vaccines though.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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