Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

Options
16926936956976981067

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    And back in the real world where people will do what they need to keep themselves warm. Another successful green policy

    https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/2023/03/06/government-failing-to-prevent-illegal-turf-cutting-12-years-after-ban-says-conservation-group/



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    if we decided to ignore EU environmental legislation our goods and some services would end up levied with the border carbon adjustment tax. Even the threat of that would be the end of Ireland as a destination for FDI and eventually as a first world country.

    Post edited by antoinolachtnai on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Are you sure about that? The border control tax is for non EU members. As a fully signed up member of the EU I'd be interested to know exactly how that would work.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    77% of the UK's gas imports come from Norway but 75% of Norway's trade is with the EU.

    Norway is in the EEA with the four freedoms and related EU laws, the UK is most definitely not.

    The UK has less than 5% of the amount of gas the Netherlands has stored.

    This has all been covered many times. Also we will be reducing gas usage drastically in the coming years.


    If the UK cut off gas to an EU member then they'd soon be in a position where they'd have to divert more Scottish gas south to England which could be the tipping point for independence.



    The UK government has paid £2.3bn to the EU as part of a long-standing dispute over textiles and footwear imported into the UK from China. The UK were fined while a member and still had to pay the fine after they left. We can't ignore the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Firstly, the BCAM is designed for exactly this situation, that different countries have weaker or stronger decarbonisation stances. To be fair to the EU’s WTO partners this would have to be applied to EU countries’ goods where the country has made a deliberate blatant decision to disregard EU environmental law.

    The BCAM is not a customs duty. It is not a requirement to import goods into the EU. It applies to the distribution of goods within the EU.

    Secondly, what good reason would the other EU members have not to do this if we started playing silly beggars? Who do you think would stop them?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Well seeing as it hasn't been enacted in actual regulations I'm not sure how you can be so certain about that. BCAM is specifically designed to stop EU and non EU companies skirting environment or decarbonization requirements. I don't see anything in it that means an entire member state can be held accountable under nevermind stopping FDI like you claimed.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Do you really think the other member states would stand around and allow Ireland to blatantly ignore EU law and benefit from not requiring carbon allowances to be bought, without any penalty for Ireland’s trade?

    why would the EU not want to stop Irish companies skirting around decarbonization requirements if that’s what the government decided it wanted to let them do?

    The law won’t be drafted to apply to internally made goods and services but it will have to be changed if a member state did what you propose, because of WTO (trade) and Paris (climate) obligations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It kind of depends on which member state is doing the ignoring. If it's France or Germany then it's all good. If little old Ireland tries to eek out even the smallest advantage we'll see a different approach. That doesn't change the fact that as it stands BCAM is about companies.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Wrong. It applies to goods and precursors.

    it applies where there is carbon leakage ie an adequate price has not been paid for the embodied emissions.

    Avoiding paying for carbon emissions is exactly what is proposed by the posters here. The natural (and legally required) retaliation will be to apply the border tax to Irish goods and precursors.

    it wouldn’t just be the big states that would want to stop this blatant carry on if we did it. The small states would also be enthusiastic to nobble ys (and rightly so if we did something so stupid).



  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    Typical of a green follower that eanna ni whatever is her last name on tv3 when confronted with facts by Michael Healy Rae she just sulks.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    The entire sham is going to come crashing down long before that happens. There's going to be reckoning for all this crazy decarbonization nonsense that's been rushed through by 2030. I'd say in the next 2 years the entire house of cards will come crashing down and the populations of Europe will start to realize they've been sold a pup.

    It's funny how all these great green deals need such retaliatory means to enforce them.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    ah yes, the long predicted collapse of the European Union

    I wouldn’t call that a case of ‘retaliatory’ so much as ‘f*coed around and found out’. Building a fleet of CCGT and refusing to require EUAs to be purchased for them would certainly be a case of the latter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Retaliatory was your word not mine. The EU isn't going to collapse but you are absolutely right about FAFO. The green policies are going to cripple the European economy and will be binned. The only question is how much damage will be done by that point.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Techold


    Ask any farmer attempting to either plant or fell forestry and they will tell you about zero action minister Hackett. Before Greens arrived in power the system was at least working.

    Ask any Dublin city trader about all the shuttered businesses in the city centre and they will tell you about cars having no access and buses running sporadically. Another Green production.

    Promising all and delivering sweet all.

    They are like turkeys merrily gorging on their food a week before Christmas not realising their end is in sight, thankfully



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Nermal


    The EU may decide to legislate itself into poverty, but that doesn't mean we have to join in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    There are very few empty retail inits in Dublin City Centre at the moment?

    Buses could be a lot better though, true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Cars have no access? To Dublin? What are you on about?

    You know the hyperbole on this thread is reaching fever pitch levels when you have people claiming cars have "no access" to the city centre. Laughable stuff really. 😂



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some tough decisions to be made today, will be interesting to see how far they go or if they'll chicken out




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    sell your car then, it will be tough but you and your fellow faithful can make the difference needed...



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Do you read what you post? It was done in lab and at this moment not scalable and not viable. Do you also have some thoughts about cold fusion?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Done years ago. Saved so much money by not running a car for the last few years. Walking, cycling and PT cover 99% of my journeys now and GoCar fills the 8/9 times a year when I need a car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I hope that all green voters will follow your lead so the rest of us can keep our cars running. I am shopping around for a car for my daughter as she is having test this week and want her own set of wheels. I asked her if she want electric but she said she will go for petrol one as she does not like automatic.

    Hope green scientists figure out how to replace silver in photovoltaic cells as it cant be recycled and we may run out quite soon.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    What are you, some kind of deranged fantasist? In just the last two posts you have accused me of:

    • predicting a natural gas shortage in Ireland within 3 years
    • advocating leaving the EU to avoid carbon pricing.

    ... neither of which appear in anything I wrote, either in fact or even remotely by implication. Perhaps ease off on leaping to unwarranted conclusions?

    CCGT generation without CCS produces around 0.35 tCO2/MWh for which the cost of EUAs would have averaged around €25/MWh in the past year. At "normal" gas prices that's a margin that could easily be absorbed while still remaining competitive with wind generation. (And the cost of unreliable wind power has been going up and is certain to keep doing so).

    While we are still generating power from coal, natural gas is a considerably better alternative from an emissions point of view. It's what made the USA the world's most successful emissions reducer through the shale fracking revolution. Instead, Ireland has so mismanaged its energy security that coal generation has to be kept beyond its planned closure date. That is thanks to government ineptitude, and latterly to Green policies.

    In the medium term we should be going hell-for-leather after Allam cycle natural gas combustion with carbon sequestration. That would keep us in carbon credits for a long time, while avoiding our insane obsession with unreliable wind power which a) threatens to scupper the economy, b) is clearly not working to meet our emissions targets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    ... And meanwhile, we should be advancing the FEL 4/19 (Inishkea) gas and SEL 1/11 (Barryroe) oil and gas prospects. The former could secure our gas supplies while reducing our emissions by 90% compared to UK imported gas. On the latter, Minister Ryan has been scratching his balls for nigh on two years instead of issuing a permit.





  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I am sorry, you said that we had to burn distillate oil because we didn’t have LNG or new offshore gas. Any normal person would conclude from that that you expect a gas shortage

    All your ideas seem incompatible with Union membership. It reminds me of brexiters’ promises that GB would stay in the Single Market after leaving the EU.

    When should we expect ‘normal’ gas prices again?

    Does your idea still work if carbon allowances go to €300/tonne?

    What EU or Paris targets for emissions from electricity do you claim Ireland has missed?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Barryroe, isn't that the crowd who submitted an application to the minister but couldn't meet the requirements and so had to sign a deal with the devil to be able to meet the minimum qualification requirements for a licence

    The same ones who have almost zero interest, according to their own shareholder reports, in the gas deposits there as they are borderline as to the commercial viability of them.

    The same ones who have had multiple partnerships and deals fall through, time after time after time.

    The same ones who had to change their name from Providence Resources to try hide their exceptionally poor record.

    The same ones who have seen their share price drop to junk penny stock status

    The same ones who have let licence after licence expire with nothing to show for it

    That Barryroe?

    Don't know about you, but I wouldn't be letting them drill to hang a picture let alone undersea

    On a side note, that tweet gave me a chuckle. Its Barryroe saying Barryroe is a great idea because Barryroe said it 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Lets hope greens figure out how to move on from lithium batteris as their targets for everything electric will go out of the window in a few years simply because there is not enough lithium. Seems like they really want everyone to start walking and cycling as cars will become so expensive only rich people will be able to afford them.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Barryroe, isn't that the crowd who submitted an application to the minister...

    No, pay attention rather than going off on a kindergarten rant. Barryroe SEL 1/11 is not a "crowd" but an oil and gas field off the coast of Cork that could be developed to enhance our energy security.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    I am sorry, you said that we had to burn distillate oil because we didn’t have LNG or new offshore gas. Any normal person would conclude from that that you expect a gas shortage

    No, that's not what I said. Either stop misquoting me, or point to where I said that. Anyway, three strikes and now you're out. I can't engage with an argument that just keeps attributing statements to me that I didn't make.

    All your ideas seem incompatible with Union membership.

    Uh, what? Burning natural gas is incompatible with European Union membership? You might want to warn the other 26 members, every one of which does so. Oops, no, I tell a lie. Cyprus doesn't -- it gets 95% of its energy from oil instead.

    It reminds me of brexiters’ promises that GB would stay in the Single Market after leaving the EU.

    Bizarre.

    When should we expect ‘normal’ gas prices again?

    How about now? The Dutch TTF fell below €50/MWh a month ago. Do try to keep up.

    Does your idea still work if carbon allowances go to €300/tonne?

    Does your idea still work if wind energy goes to €300/MWh? That seems more likely.

    What EU or Paris targets for emissions from electricity do you claim Ireland has missed?

    It missed its 2020 emissions targets by a whopping 20%. It will miss its 2030 targets as well because we have no effective strategy for meeting them, thanks in part to the Greens.



Advertisement