Are there any credible conspiracy theories?

robinph · 04-03-2023 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313977#Comment_120313977

It crontradicts your claims that people have been suppressed from talking about an accidental lab leak with no nefarious plans behind it, or that people have even been suggesting that as their theory from the conspiracy theorists side of things.

An accidental lab leak wasn't what people have been suggesting when talking about lab leak conspiracy theories, and it isn't what Musk has been told to stop tweeting about.

silliussoddius · 04-03-2023 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313237#Comment_120313237

So the accidental leak is now an accidental leak of a man made virus, what will the hop scotch lead us to next?

silliussoddius · 04-03-2023 9:27pm

I admit this isn’t credible and the men in the white coats are folding the tinfoil as we speak, but hear me out.

“Entrepreneur” with a Tony Stark complex who has failed to deliver on numerous flights of fancy is stoned one night and offers to buy a social media company for a groin wrecking price. Then he tries to back out of it, but then says it’s about free speech (which naturally leads him to ask for Saudi investors) and the importance of public discourse (thank god he reinstated David Icke and Ron Watkins).

He then does the whole “it’s my ball and I’m taking it home” approach to running his over priced middens heap and advertisers bail. He now needs money via check marks and is trying to drive traffic to it by trying to attract conspiracy theorists.

AmberGold · 04-03-2023 9:33pm

That the COVID vaccine is more dangerous than COVID. Statistically this now seems to be the case.

Being pro Vax myself this one surprised me.

https://youtu.be/fbFayD_S_54

astrofool · 04-03-2023 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314790#Comment_120314790

It's also untrue, Ireland had 4-5 COVID deaths in the last week, no known vaccine deaths.

The nurse has fallen far (I think he just realised there was more youtube clicks and money pandering to the anti-vaxxer crowd post pandemic).

King Mob · 05-03-2023 12:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313666#Comment_120313666

So that's the extent of the conspiracy? That facebook and twitter "censured" (dunno what you mean by that) for a few months while tackling the floods of misinformation coming for conspiracy theorists?

And ok, which of these scientists who were only suggesting that that could be case were labeled conspiracy theorists and were censored for it?

Hoop66 · 05-03-2023 12:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315103#Comment_120315103

But if you look a bit closer at the data you’ll see that there’s a circle drawn around a number, so...

lumphammer2 · 05-03-2023 1:41am

The term conspiracy theory is ... generally an insult ... to out a wild poorly researched statement presented by an agenda driven individual or org as 'fact' ... think Trump ... think someone writing a book about being a friend of an alive and well Elvis .... think some Youtube video theory on 9/11 ...

But ... are there any credible conspiracy theories?? ... yes ... but they are ones labelled as that thing not really being that thing ... enter Covid 19 pandemic ...

For sure Covid gave us wild conspiracy theories ... 5G anybody ... or Trump and his magical bleach cure ... but everyone who criticised long and now known to be unneeded lockdowns were branded conspiracy theories even if they were not doing anything other than criticising the lockdowns and stay at home orders ... sure Gemma O'D, Dolores C and John W were all spouting rubbish ... but not everyone criticising long lockdowns were of their ilk ... people had very legit concerns and NPHET/etc were contradicting themselves all the time ... one minute masks had no purpose then they had ... it seemed there was no way they'd budge from lockdowns for weeks on end in mid 2020 ...

So ... criticising lockdowns that were 2 months old and showing no signs of stopping ... and suggesting mask wearing and/or antigen testing and/or upping the PCR tests with contact tracing to replace lockdowns ... was actually considered to be a conspiracy theory by lockdown hardliners ... since then almost everyone knows long lockdowns were anythng but helpful ...

Apart from this I am certain the Khamenei kingdom that rules Iran would consider legit protests about the way they run (ruin?) Iran as baseless conspiracies invented outside Iran by the West ... Putin's whole war in Ukraine is based on his/hardliners in the regime's conspiracy theory ... but the regime dismisses legit opposition to it as 'conspiracy' ... so yes 'conspiracy theories' labelled as such can be credible ... but none of them are really conspiracies though ... they are legit concerns ...

geospatial · 05-03-2023 2:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315332#Comment_120315332

censured = typo for censored, would have thought obvious.

I don't recall saying anything about social media conspiracy theories, they are private companies and can decide for themselves what to censor/block/ban etc. and people are also free to use their platforms or not.

King Mob · 05-03-2023 4:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315427#Comment_120315427

Ok. So in what way were they censored?

Was this at the behest of a government conspiracy to cover up or discredit the idea of a lab leak?

geospatial · 05-03-2023 7:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315459#Comment_120315459

They were censored by having their posts removed from social media.

tt does appear from the Twitter files that in the US the government was requesting that Twitter delete posts that it deemed misinformation. If true, seems an obvious infringement of the first amendment and frankly a bit fascist. Hopefully not something we will see spread to other democracies, freedom of expression is a cormnestone of democracy.

King Mob · 05-03-2023 7:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315537#Comment_120315537

Ok. Let's pretend that's true.

Why did they prevent people from posting about a lab leak? Why the government do this?

You object to them doing this for the notion of a lab leak, but do you extend this to the conspiracy claims that you agree are false?

Big Bag of Chips · 05-03-2023 1:31pm

Off topic posts deleted. Rereg of banned user removed.

All posters are reminded to not comment on posters on thread. Any issue with any poster report it. Commenting on thread is off-topic and can result in warnings and bans.

geospatial · 05-03-2023 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315547#Comment_120315547

Why did the US government want to suppress the lab leak theory? I wquld say the most parsimonious explanation is because the US government was funding the lab where it is alleged the leak originated, so an ass covering exercise.

I don't think the government should be censoring the media at all, unless a law is being broken. What I think on individual issues is irrelevant, it's a matter of principle, individuals either have a right to free expersssion of opinion or they don't. Do we want the government deciding what ""misinformation" is? If someone answers yes to that question, then they have to accept a government they are opposed to doing the censoring.

Dohnjoe · 05-03-2023 6:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317155#Comment_120317155

Didn't see much "suppression" going on. The Biden admin openly said they didn't know the true origin of Covid.

Unfortunately, from day 1 of the pandemic, there was a tidal wave of disinfo and conspiracies from the internet. It was so bad that platforms like Google and Youtube had to take action. Hundreds of people died from fake cures peddled on the internet.

When public health is at stake, certain disinformation can be dangerous and does have to be tackled.

geospatial · 05-03-2023 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317808#Comment_120317808

There was active suppression of lab leak from February 2020 (the Promimal origins paper) to mid 2021 when the story broke that the DOE (Lawrence Livermore) had issued a report concluding the lab leak was plausible and warranted further study. After this reporting the US government including the NIH became more balanced in their comments.

If you haven't read it this is a good summary of the suppression in that timeframe.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins

Dohnjoe · 05-03-2023 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318075#Comment_120318075

Yeah this has come up in the thread previously. This DRASTIC group, they didn't seem to find much in the end.

The Lancet report was signed by 27 scientists who didn't believe the virus to be man-made. That's where we still are.

King Mob · 05-03-2023 9:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120317155#Comment_120317155

OK. So if the US government wanted to supress the idea, why did they reverse their censorship of Twitter?

Why did they allow the FBI to say what they did?

So you believe that Twitter and other media outlet should take no action against any misinformation even if it's obviously false or obviously dangerous.

geospatial · 05-03-2023 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318706#Comment_120318706

As I said, the US government changed it's stance on Covid origins around mid 2021 and since then have had a balanced approach indicating lab leak or natural spillover are both plausible, which of course was always true. It would have been impossible for them after mid 2021 to continue to refer to lab leak as a "conspiracy theory" when their own agency (DOE) were saying it was plausible, contradicting the NIH. As an aside I think it's very dofficult for governments to keep anything secret for long these days, everything seems to eventually leak.

There is no evidence that the US government has stopped censoring social media companies other than Twitter. What changed with Twitter? Elon Musk fired the group involved in censorship and has published how the process worked between Twitter and the US government prior to his purchasing the company. Presumably the weekly meetings between Twitter executives and the FBI / DHS that Yoel Roth testified under oath were happening are no long happening. So the apparent change is at Twitter, not the US government.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying on censorship. Twitter or any private company can censor or ban who they like, there is no first amendment issue there. The issue is when the government intervene and request that information is censored or removed. The first amendment only applies to government actions, the gpvernment cannot infringe on an individuals right to express an opinion, unless they are breaking the law.

The question is who should decide what "misinformation" is? If you out it in the hands of the government then you risk every criticism of government being deemed "misinformation" and actual misinformation from the government deemed the unquestioned truth. It all sounds a bit totalitarian, or fascist if you like.

King Mob · 05-03-2023 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318834#Comment_120318834

Sorry you haven't answered my question still.

If the US government was censoring the idea and working to have people dismiss it as a conspiracy theory, why did the FBI announce what they did?

This is the central problem with the conspiracy theory being purposed any every single conspiracy theorist refuses to address it.

Please address it now or explain why you are avoiding it.

geospatial · 06-03-2023 2:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318860#Comment_120318860

I've just answered that, it's incredibly rude to accuse someone of avoiding a question who has just given you a comrpehensive answer.

King Mob · 06-03-2023 2:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319273#Comment_120319273

No you haven't answered the question at all. No where in your previous post is there any mention of the FBI.

You do not explain why the US government would go to all of this bother to suppress the idea of a lab leak, but then not inform the FBI or prevent them from issuing the statement they did.

This is the fatal flaw in the conspiracy theory you guys are suggesting is credible. Yet you keep having to bend over backwards to avoid and ignore it.

Personally I find it very rude to avoid questions in the first place.

geospatial · 06-03-2023 3:37am

Once again, I'm not avoiding any questions. I have explained clearly why there was suppressiona of lab leak from 2020 to mid 2021, and why now there is less suppression.

The US intelliegence community (18 agencies) made no public comment at all up to mid 2021, and even then the DOE report was based on a leak. The NIH were the only agency giving an opinion on origins from 2020 to mid 2021, and this became the defacto position of the Executive branch after Biden took office.

The only government body who made any early determination on Covid origins were the NIH, not an intelligence agency. They declared in February 2020 that Covid was zootonic and suggestions of a lab leak were conspiracy theories. Throughout 2020 and early 2021 apparently there was significant discussion of lab leak within the US State department and intelligence agencies, but this was suppressed due to a desire to avoid opening "a can of worms". The can of worms being the fact that the NIH were funding the lab in question.

What changed everything was the reporting in mid 2021 that the intelligence agency within the DOE regarded lab leak as plausible and had sent a report to the rest of the intelligence communities. This directly contradicted the NIH position, and the NIH quickly reversed their position to a neutral one. Since mid 2021 the US government stance on Covid origin has been neutral.

The recent disclosures by the FBI and DOE change everything again, now there are two intelligence agencies saying lab leak is likely. So we have gone from the NIH saying lab leak = onspiracy theory in 2020 to the DOE saying lab leak possible in 2021 to two agencies saying lab leak likely in 2022. It must be hard for the Executive branch to keep up.

The conspiracy theory is that the Executive branch of the US government, and specifically the NIH, tried to distance themselves from lab leak as they were funding the lab in question. There are congressional hearings (separate branch of government) starting this week, where the NIH will have to testify..It will be interesting to hear why they were so adament regarding zoonotic and so dismissive of lab leak.

King Mob · 06-03-2023 4:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319312#Comment_120319312

But this is still not an answer to the question I asked. You said previously that you had answered it, but now you're declaring that you have answered an entirely different topic.

Let's try one last time. Please answer directly and without dodging or waffle:

Why did the US government not prevent the FBI from making a statement supporting the idea of a lab leak?

If the conspiracy worked as claimed then the government would have easily prevented the FBI from saying what they said.

If they could not have prevented the FBI from making a statement then the conspiracy makes no sense as the government doesn't seem to be able to control anything.

I think you can't answer this because what you're proposing doesn't match with reality.

robinph · 06-03-2023 4:37am

What on earth is the origins of a virus doing getting a statement from the FBI anyway? In normal course of things it should never be any concern of theirs or any other of the intelligence agencies.

I suspect that they have only been prompted to issue statements to try and shut up conspiracy theorists. But it's really not the field of expertise of the likes of the FBI.

geospatial · 06-03-2023 4:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319316#Comment_120319316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319312#Comment_120319312

Why did the US government not stop the FBI? lmfao Ask JFK

The US is not a totalitarian country (yet anyway), you get public disagreements between branches of government all the time, and even within branches. Tension between the intelligence agencies and the White House are not uncommon, have you heard of Watergate?

It is quite obvious what is happening, I'm sure you can grasp it on this third attempt. NIH were acting in their own self interest when they labelled lab leak as a conspiracy theory and convinced the Biden administration of such. However, well sourced reports (see the article I posted earlier) say that various intelligence agencies had made no conclusions on origin, but were aware of the issues with NIH funding. The sh1t is about to hit the fan with Congressional hearings starting this week, the FBI and DOE are distancing themselves from the White House and the NIH. I think I would be doing the same.

King Mob · 06-03-2023 5:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319321#Comment_120319321

OK so then your conspiracy doesn't make sense.

Why can they control the NIH and other bodies but the Department of Energy and the FBI are not in their power?

Why does that control extend to all media except Twitter when they just say no?

Your theory for it to make sense requires that the US government is one singular conspiracy. Yet the statements from the various organizations show that its not. Like you said.

So again we've an example of a not very credible conspiracy theory.

SafeSurfer · 06-03-2023 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319333#Comment_120319333

You really are deliberately ignoring what the poster has already explained to you. The NIH were acting in self interest.

Sealioning is a term I had to look up when another poster accused you of it. I understand the term now.

King Mob · 06-03-2023 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322455#Comment_120322455

And asking people what they believe and why is not sealioning. Conspiracy theorists misuse a term they don't really understand as an excuse to avoid questions they don't want to answer.

The conspiracy theory being proposed does not make sense if agencies can act in their own self interest. If this was the case then the US government is not able to exert any control on any of the people or organisations it needs to to engage in the this campaign of censorship. It also means that if they tried it would be in the self interest of some of these organisations to expose this attempt.

The FBI has not said anything about themselves being censored or that they were investigating any obstructions or attempts at a cover up. How can you conspiracy theorists explain this without defaulting back to the lazy notion that they are controlled by the Conspiracy.

It also doesn't make sense since according to the claims, organisations can just ignore the attempts at censorship like Twitter apparently did.

And all of this is before we even start to question what "censorship" actually took place. But given that it took a few pages to address the first question...

So do you agree with the poster that the US government is not able to completely and totally control every agency and media organisation?

SafeSurfer · 06-03-2023 9:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322728#Comment_120322728

“pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate")”

Is that sealioning as you understand it?

And this from you in the last few posts alone

“Why did they allow the FBI to say what they did?”

Sorry you haven't answered my question still.

“why did the FBI announce what they did?”

“Please address it now”

“No you haven't answered the question”

“You do not explain why”

King Mob · 06-03-2023 10:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322973#Comment_120322973

Ah cool. Dodging my actual points to complain then.

No it it not sealioning to ask people why they believe something or to clarify something. It is not sealioning to point out when a question is being avoided or dodged.

I will not be addressing any more tangents about sealions.

Big Bag of Chips · 06-03-2023 10:53pm

@King MobAs has been warned on other threads in this forum persistent repeating of the same line of questioning is classed as harranguing. If you've asked the same question 3 or 4 times and have not received an answer you deem satisfactory then you're not going to receive an answer you deem satisfactory.

Move on.

Dohnjoe · 07-03-2023 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319312#Comment_120319312

When Covid emerged, the conspiracy theories started from day 1 that it was manufactured in and deliberately released from a lab in China. That did it's own collateral damage. Early on, it was naturally difficult to talk about lab leak anywhere without that association.

I remember when lab leak equaled "man-made and deliberately released"

Even the Trump administration became confused over this when they made their claims it came from a lab, disagreeing then agreeing with intelligence at the time.

Pompeo’s claims, made in an interview with ABC’s This Week, represented an escalation in rhetoric. He had previously said the US was looking into the possibility the virus came from a lab in Wuhan, China.

On Sunday, Pompeo said: “There is enormous evidence that that’s where this began,” later adding: “I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan.”

At one point, the secretary of state appeared confused over whether he was claiming the Sars-CoV-2 virus (which causes the Covid-19 disease) was deliberately engineered or escaped as the result of a lab accident.

“Look, the best experts so far seem to think it was manmade. I have no reason to disbelieve that at this point,” he said.

But when he was reminded that US intelligence had issued a formal statement noting the opposite – that the scientific consensus was that the virus was not manmade or genetically modified – Pompeo replied: “That’s right. I agree with that.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/mike-pompeo-donald-trump-coronavirus-chinese-laboratory

You're painting a narrative of "suppression" that wasn't really there. People just didn't know for sure, and too often accidental lab leak became associated with the silly conspiracy theories floating about.

King Mob · 07-03-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324807#Comment_120324807

And this is a another blow against this conspiracy theory's credibility

It doesn't make sense for the US government to engage in suppression of the idea when top White House people and the president himself are suggesting it.

Did the suppression only start when Biden came into power?

geospatial · 07-03-2023 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324807#Comment_120324807

Of course there was suppression of credible lab leak theories, to deny it is simply rewriting history. Yes there were extreme conspiracy theories like deliberate release but that was never proposed by any scientists (Was it proposed on boards?). What was proposed was twofold: that collecting bat coronavirus samples from remote bat caves and bringing them back to labs in densely populated cities was dangerous, and that modifying bat coronaviruses to study if they got more infectious to humans was highly dangerous, both highly credible sources of a pandemic and not conspiuracy theories.

What is abundently clear is that when concerms were raised by prominent virologists in late January about a possible "engineered virus", a meeting was hastily convened by Fauci and the outcome of that meeting was the Proximal Origins paper which was authored within days, followed by a statemnet of support of Chinese scientists. Both documents, in particular the latter, labelled proponents of a lab leak as "conspiracy theorists", which effectively shut down debate withing the scientific community. It later transpired (from FOIA requests) that the prime mover behind both documents was Peter Daszak, the very person funding the Wuhan lab with NIH funds.

There are very few scientists who discussed credible lab leak publicaly from early 2020 to mid 2021, and why would they when to do so would result in being labelled a conspiracy theorist. You also had the all major social media companies blocking and deleting posts on credible lab leak, that is not suppression? The US government meeting weekly with social media companies to propose banning posts and posters. That's not suppression?

King Mob · 07-03-2023 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325594#Comment_120325594

But the examples you keep pointing to of "suppression" "by labeling people conspiracy theorists" have either been misrepresented by yourself, or leave the possibility of a lab leak open.

We've also seen that the US government doesn't have any control over twitter or any other social media, as Twitter just said no to this alleged censorship. Nor have they the control over the various organisations needed to engage in this kind of cover up or censorship.

There are also a lot of very vague terms in your statements like "effectively shut down debate".

I think that "effectively" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

And of course this is all with the complete editing out of reality the flood of conspiracy theories coming out at the time, some expressed by the president of the US government that is also behind the cover up.

You are asking if the idea of the virus being deliberately released was proposed here. If this is a serious question, then you are demonstrating that you have had your head buried in the sand for the last few years. (This was the conspiracy theory hinted at by Trump and Pompeo BTW.)

If this is not a serious question, then you are deliberately feigning ignorance of the sheer volume of conspiracy claims.

Dohnjoe · 07-03-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325594#Comment_120325594

There are multiple components

Man-made v natural

It was deliberately man-made - conspiracy theorists day 1 and some scientists over time (several of whom walked back on this)
It was natural - consistent consensus of scientists and experts

Wet market v lab

Wet market - Initial theory, a significant number of scientists and experts
Lab - FBI and dept of energy

Released on purpose from lab v accidental release from lab

Released on purpose - conspiracy theorists day 1
Accidental or incidental - FBI, dept of energy

The general consensus was that, like SARS, MERS, etc it jumped from animals via host to humans and is a natural virus. There is little consensus in scientific community that it was man-made.

Whether that took place at the wet market or lab has changed. With more traction towards the lab recently.

Your view that it was "suppressed" is not very convincing.

Dohnjoe · 07-03-2023 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325662#Comment_120325662

Paging @The Nal

The Nal · 07-03-2023 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325994#Comment_120325994

Urgh, that ones been to to, err, death hasnt it.

geospatial · 07-03-2023 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325769#Comment_120325769

I'm not addicted to conspiracy theories and am an occasional visitor to boards, so will take your word that posters have proposed that the Chinese government deliberatley released the virus. Trump and Pompeo did not suggest this, they clearly said they believed the virus leaked from a lab in Wuhan and that intelligence supported this, without ever disclosing the intelligence.

Please stop misrepresenting what I have said. As a scientist, I am interested in the science and believe strongly in scientific debate and that scientists should not be silenced. Labelling fellow scientists as conspiracy theorists because they disagree with you is not scientific, especially when those doing the labelling are acting in their own self interest. All suggestions of lab leak, including credible ones, were labelled as "conspiracy theories" from ealry 2020 to mid 2021. To deny this is rewriting history or frankly based on ignorance.

Yes, the US government can censor the media, they have a history of doing such, and yes social media companies generally comply. When the FBI show up at your door people generally pay attention. The difference with Twitter is when Musk took over he told them to get fcuked. It's staggering that you can't grasp this distinction, and are still stuck in black and white thinking as if the US government was the CCP. While no doubt there are elements within the US government that would like CCP like control, fortunately the US is still a democracy and it is difficult to suppress things over time.

In my opinion, and it's an opinion I have held since early 2020, the theory that SARS2 was either a natural virus collected by the WIV from a cave in Yunnan and leaked from their lab, or a lab modified virus that leaked from their lab is not a conspiracy theory. Do you agree with this statement?

Dohnjoe · 07-03-2023 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326024#Comment_120326024

The US is pretty rubbish at censoring their media. Also the US is not the world.

I've listened to countless radio shows, TV interviews, during the entirety of Covid where scientists and experts discussed the possibility of lab leak. Most didn't rule it out. Didn't notice any suppression or "silencing".

geospatial · 07-03-2023 5:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325987#Comment_120325987

Where is your evidence there was a scientific consensus? The Proxinal Origins paper? Was there a survey of all scientists I missed to establish this consensus? Most scientists are private individuals and generally don't give an opinion, especially if giving an opinion gets you labelled a conspiracy theorist and banned off social media.

I would say the vast majority of scientists would have said "I don't know" to the equestion of origin.

Cheerful S · 07-03-2023 7:15pm

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1633128532833599488

There appears to be a new conspiracy theory for the masses. I dont believe anything US officials have to say about this.

I believe rogue actors are responsible, just as they were involved in 9/11. Anyone who hates Russia can be part of the pro-Ukranian group though.

When they identify the boat's registration and who owned and crewed it, they will certainly be able to identify the individuals. Being silent about the crew and releasing as little information as possible, trying to keep lid on it, know something withheld for security reasons.

Dohnjoe · 07-03-2023 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326764#Comment_120326764

Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. It's lacking a lot of details, so I'm skeptical about it.

Why would it be a "conspiracy theory for the masses"? If true, it's a negative for Ukraine/US relations, undermining trust between the two. Also a nice gift for Russian propaganda.

Cheerful S · 07-03-2023 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326821#Comment_120326821

German investigation claims there were six crew members. The boat was registered and rented in Poland. According to the investigation, a truck with explosives arrived at the port and loaded them onto the vessel.

Apparently, US intelligence received this German information suggesting a pro-Ukraine group was behind the attack.

Based on this, we know that it was a secret operation that Germans have somehow gained knowledge of and are sharing now.

As of now, there are two versions of what happened here, one by Seymour Hersh, and this one now. Either way, it was not the Russians blowing up their own gas lines.

King Mob · 07-03-2023 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326024#Comment_120326024

But again, if you are pretending to not know about the flood of conspiracy theories that were being spouted here and else where, you are feigning complete ignorance. If you genuinely didn't know, then you weren't paying attention to the actual issue of what was and wasn't labeled conspiracy theories.

King Mob · 07-03-2023 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326821#Comment_120326821

Also weird for the US media and intelligence to report on this. You'd think they'd censor it or something.

geospatial · 07-03-2023 11:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327726#Comment_120327726

As I already said I'm not addicted to arguing about conspiracy theories, it would be a waste of my valuable time. This thread asks the question "are there any credible conspiracy theories" and recent events confirm that a lab leak of SARS2 was never a conspiracy theory, even though there were many, including many sccientists, who painted it as such. The actual conspiracy is that those who spread this disinformation were possibly (probably) acting on their own behalf to deflect attention from their funding and collaboration with the lab in question.

Read this statement which was published by Lancet in March 2020. "The rapid, open, and transparent sharing of data".. are they having a fcuking laugh? Any Chinese scientist who tried to be open and tranparent was sent to reeducation camp at best or disappeared. "We stand together to strongly condemn the conspiracy theories that Covid 19 did not have a natural origin".. How dare they appoint themselves as the truthtellers and accuse their fellow scientists in this manner, the arrogance dripping off this statement is staggering.

So what if there were conspiracy theories being sprouted, nobody sensible would give credibility to this virus being released deliberately or developed for military purposes. What matters is that at least 7 million people have died and tens of millions have been harmed, and we still have resistance to aggressively pursuing where this virus originated. If the CCP wanted to clear up the question of lab leak, they would put the WIH database back on line that was taken off line in late 2019. The fact they won't tells you they have something to hide.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext

King Mob · 07-03-2023 11:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327975#Comment_120327975

But it's not a waste of time especially when you are trying to a scenario out of its context (one flooded with conspiracy theories) to construct a conspiracy theory of your own.

Just because you aren't interested in the extreme conspiracy claims it doesn't mean they didn't exist or weren't flooding twitter.

Pretending that they didn't exist so you can claim what you do doesn't make your conspiracy theory very convincing.

geospatial · 07-03-2023 11:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327989#Comment_120327989

What conspiracy theory am I constructing?

Are there any credible conspiracy theories?

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