Your New WHS Index

Mine too

11 .. Div 1

35 .. Div 2

30.. Div 3

Last Friday Singles split.

47 points? Sounds like there were two hooks in that match 🙄

Howdidi I think.

No such thing as categories anymore. Categories were a fixed handicap range but really only used for calculating handicap cuts. Eg class 1 was cut .1 per shot better than CSS and class 2 was cut .2 per shot etc etc

Class groupings have been around for as long as I remember and have always been fluid depending on the spread of the competition entry’s. Very odd to see that some clubs fix their ranges, it makes no logical sense.

A lot of clubs seem to do categories for comps now and I think it'll become the standard going forward, or I hope it does anyway. I don't see how they'll keep players interested otherwise. I agree with you for the most part but there are a lot of genuine players who would be annoyed about not being considered a level playing field to lower handicaps and I can see that view as well. Problem with that fixed division concept I can see, wasn't there some stat about if you get to single digits you are in the top 10% of golfers or something like that? How many players are motivated by getting down to that level? A lot that I come across seem to want to play golf at the weekend during the summer and thats that so I'd wonder if there'd be much movement between the categories. Its an interesting idea though and I do think the longer WHS is around the more clubs will have to do to entice the better players into playing weekly comps outside of majors.

Where is there any satisfaction in winning a prize where you were competing against 9 other players ?? Especially given that there was 60 other players, playing for the other two prizes.

Reads like two people did.

I admit to being slightly out of the loop when it comes to the current system and its mechanics. I'm genuinely surprised at the concept of balancing out the classes/categories/call them what you will. I'm talking about internal club splits, not the old Categories under CONGU. For as long as I can remember they've been fixed in my club, even going back to when I was on competitions maybe 10 years ago. From memory I think ours went something like 0-11, 12-16, 17-21, 22+. Can't remember exactly tbh, but it was something along those lines. Thinking about it a little more, it was probably set up to somewhat balance out the numbers but I don't think it ever changed. In fairness we'd be doing well to have 30 guys in single figures full stop in the club anyway, but we'd regularly have class 1 with 20 entries and maybe 40 entries in class 3 say on a given day. Don't see an issue with that at all tbh.

I'd never heard of balancing until I saw it on here a few posts above and I can see the argument for it alright, even if I don't necessarily agree. Meh, I dunno, it doesn't bother me much either way, but I'd tend towards the argument that if you want to compete in class 1, against possibly fewer (depending on the day) players, then improve. Don't expect to be put in class 1 because only 12 of the better players turned up on Saturday and class 1 needs to be xx number of players.

I would be of the same thinking re categories, classes, divisions etc.

If there were less players in the top division, I would only really see that as a positive.

One, it's rewards their greater ability... I think a valid argument could be also be made that, in general, these guys are likely have put in a lot more work than on their game so it's a reward for that as well.

An added advantage of it being "easier" to win Div 1 would be that it might actually result in promoting the overall lowering of handicaps. Would a "comfortable 12-14 HC golfer" put in more work/decide to get into single figures.

BN, I think with regard to your 4th paragraph re golf celebrating when people have a great day, that will largely remain the same thankfully. I mean since time began low handicappers have complained about something, high guys have complained about low guys always complaining and everyone knew who the 5 or 6 real bandits in their club were. I can't really see that changing. Most will know when someone shoots 43pts if he's had an amazing day or if he's one of those 5 or 6.

I'm the comp sec in my own club for my sins. We have always had class/category prizes for every singles run throughout our main season to supplement first prize etc. We have set category limits and I find it works very well for us, not one person has ever complained that there is less players in Class A v Class C etc. The top handicap index for Class A for our club is 9.4, so a single figure golfer in everyone's language. Speaking to a lot of lads in the club just above single figures they take motivation in trying to achieve Class A as they know if they do then they will have achieved single figure status. We would regularly have 30-40 in Class A weekly however much higher numbers in our other 3 categories. Our prize structure usually runs 1st, 2nd, Gross, Class A-D which gives everyone a fair chance of competing for multiple prizes across our competition if they play the golf to be in contention. We think this is a pretty fair system for all and we haven't seen any drop off in competition numbers since WHS came in, in fact the opposite may be true.

Not both. I did and got beat.

I know the other lad very well for years. He is a very casual golfer and holds his jammy h/cap for his casual golf with buddies. Unashamedly so. He is not a 31 hcap.

Rarely plays 18 hole comps no interest in prizes per se. Got a nice bump in hcap under WHS.

Our match was a society matchplay.

I play a lot of golf over 50 counting rounds last year , played through the winter comps/society and casual also.

47pts means I break 80 which is where I aspire to be with my golf. Lowest index 9.0 , currently 12.3 That feat only been breached on 4 occasions in recent years under whs.

My index has slipped out last year. Surgery. It will be reducing again this year as I have recovered and my game is coming around again. I didn't receive a notification of index adjustment from the recent review at my club. Ie My comp scores didn't merit it this winter.

I am trying to play the best I can.

I love competition, fair competition. Whs is destroying it. Maybe the manner in which it is applied would be more accurate.

Interclub comps are debased now.

This is an absolutely mental story. I think it was mentioned earlier on - that the culture around competition golf in Ireland is very different in Ireland versus other parts of the world - and we take it serious - too serious in all likelihood. But if you have people coming into clubs - and winning big events like above , it will be a disaster for club golf.

WHS in theory is a good system - but it is designed for a more fun interaction around golf. This is probably right in some regard , but Irish people like their competitions to be somewhat serious -

Anyway - unless GI intend to change a few things - or just exit system altogether. You are kind of only frustrating yourself thinking about it too much.

I think Seve is right - golf is just not for me 😂

@FixdePitchmark The Vauxhall Conference should always have as much chance, if not more than most of winning the European Cup!

Our club has just changed from 1st to 4th overall, plus 4 division winners to overall, best gross and 1st and 2nd in the four divisions. This is for comps with over 100. Our divisions are always balanced so you are often in different divisions depending on the numbers.

I like the the idea of division 1 being just for single figure golfers. I would be very motivated to get promoted through the divisions in that scenario.

As you said though Fix it's the causal weekend golfer who keeps these clubs open. Pleasing the minority in each club, whose main sport, or only source of competition is golf is never going to happen. There's also a proportion of players in each club who pay their sub but can't play as often as they'd like, either due to work, family, or other commitments. They pay their sub partly because on one of the handful of times they get out they might have a great score and win a big one. Without this opportunity maybe they let their subs lapse.

The new system is maybe putting too much pressure or onus on handicap secretaries to cut guys during non-counting. I'm getting a bit of stick in our club at the moment and they're saying the handicap secretary is too nice to cut people when they need to be. I'm still expecting a two shot cut and I'll deserve it. But these guys are volunteering their time, is it really practical for them to be all across 500+ members and their scores. Software can obviously help here.

I always feel a bit weird winning something when I could have taken numerous shots more than another guy playing in the same competition. Having said that I'm still happy to have played well according to my handicap and don't track down the better golfer to give him my prize!

Something has to be done about the max handicap for able bodied newcomers though, 24 is plenty to begin with. Everyone needs to get their heads around WHS being more your current average ability rather than your potential. And in this scenario you'll have to beat your average by a fair bit to be in the hunt for a prize.

@PARlance I agree that those who spend time on their game should be rewarded and that there should always be a gross prize in every comp.

@blue note Your hypothetical would never happen because their should always be a gross prize.