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Potential for €10 congestion charge, parking increases of 400% and a 20kmh reduction in speed limits

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    In 2021, Eamonn Ryan wanted 1 million electric cars on the road by 2030. In 2022, Eamonn Ryan abandoned the 1 million target and said he wanted to reduce overall cars on the road

    That was a target inherited from an FG minister, abandoned by Ryan, which would be another way of phrasing it



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    This can’t be introduced unless they can show us there is function bus service. By then it would probably become un necessary.

    London has charge but it also has much better public transport than Dublin.

    Back in the 90’s I lived in Rathmines worked in Dun Laoghaire. The 46A was my best option, except in September when UDC came back I ended up sharing taxies to work because the bus would shoot by.  – I bought a car.

    I can now get a bus easily to work but because I get of just at the edge of the city I can’t reliability  get one home. They’ll be full and shoot past.

    If we all started using the bus/dart/lusa the system simply wouldn’t cope it can’t carry that many people all at the one time.  We also have the problem of Ghost busses, that never show up.

    If they ever fix the bus service then you’ll find younger people postpone getting a card, and car owners will start to use the bus more. The notion of a stick to beat car owners with isn’t going to achieve anything. They’ll still dive just park at the edge of the congestion zone and block up the streets. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    I doubt that but Im sure you will come up with some random example. Carry on



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    The app and live time tables shows buses, arrival times etc now

    As I said the biggest issue for the bus now is using the same roads as cars which block it

    Do you honestly think one day everyone is going to stop using cars and suddenly jump onto buses? it will take years even if this proposal was approved



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    I never said "let the sucker pay more". All I am saying is we need to move people from cars into other options

    You are in a very specific scenario. In reality no matter what the government does with public transport some people will have different requirements. I already said this on the thread.

    Not trying to sound harsh/rude but the majority of people do not have those requirements.

    Meath has the option of the M3 parkway to gain the best and quickest access to Dublin city centre. This should be extended to Dunshaughlin but it is criminal it the Navan line has not reopened. The majority of meath is also covered by Bus Eireann with regular buses which after using before are great till they hit around the half way house and then ground to a stop, why? well the road is full of cars and the bus lane becomes a free for all during rush hour.

    Every time a discussion about public transport comes up we get these types of situations, but if you are using a car but the other thousand people who don't have to use a car are on trains/buses then it makes your life a lot easier. You should in fact be fighting for public transport.

    Public transport in every country is about moving mass population, it will never be able to drill down and provide the requirements for every single person who have specific requirements. The other people on the road with you in the morning won't have those requirements and can use public transport is the point, the car is just a lot more convenient



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  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭Chopper Dave


    Another way of phrasing it but not an accurate one. The 1mln EV Target was contained in the 2021 Climate Action Plan which was published in November 2021. Eamonn Ryan was the relevant Minister then and he had been for almost 18 months having been appointed to the role in June 2020. If he inherited the target or didn't like it, he had plenty of time to get rid of it. He didn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    You are asking me and other tax payers to pay in the attached post. We have paid more then enough in taxes to have a decent public transport system in the country.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    No one so far was able to tell us what will be the reduction in co2 if any that these brain dead policies will result in

    Maybe this is because we are discussing proposals yet to be approved by government rather than detailed policies. Do you not understand the difference?

    As I said the objective seems to punish the population not a actually do anything concretely measurable to reduce co2

    Who is being punished?


    The greens didn't kill the bypass - ABP have killed it. Even the project docs claimed that it would increase CO2 emissions because it would increase traffic flows. Also remember that three different parties objected to it including two private companmies who have no green agenda. However, there is a thread on this project already but your incorrect allegation did need correcting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Big Eamon knocking it out of the park once again




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    So many people are saying that the busses disappear from the app or the street signs see comments on this article https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-apology-service-disruption-5944442-Dec2022/

    When I go to get the bus home, cars aren't making them drive past my stop its because the bus is full.

    Right now it's not cars that are making busses sh1t it's Bus Companies.

    No I'd think we will all stop using cars but in my case I bought a car earlier that I would have because the bus kept letting me down. If you public transport better younger people will put of getting a car for few more years. Mostly until they have kids. And families might do with one car instead of two. All helps. Using charges as tool isn't going to help when there are no alternatives.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    If everyone left their cars at home tomorrow and wanted to get a Bus to work they'd be in for a very long wait/walk....



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So national policy should focus on your own little world and its problems or should it look at the bigger picture?

    Currently we have a crisis looming (which is already evident in countries around the world). We need to act to reduce our carbon footprint. We need other countries to do the same but we shouldn't stand idle waiting on them.

    A big quick win for us is to reduce the numbers driving into congested city centres. By removing the congestion then you are able to provide free flowing networks for those that use public travel and those cycling and those that must use their car or van.

    Undoubtedly, this will suit many peopkle but it will also hurt some and I presume that you are in the latter group. So the government need to ensure that whatever new policies come in, we need to look into measures assisting those challenged by the policies. But the policies need to happen, like it or not.

    If you don't believe me as to what could happen, look at Pakistan last year. Hell, just look at the likes of France.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The question isn’t about car ownership. The question is whether a car is essential for the majority of car journeys.

    The Census data clearly shows that many people are using cars for short journeys that are easily walked or cycled, and you are deliberately choosing to ignore this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The problem is that the bus lanes are full of taxis (often with no passengers), delivery trucks and vans, parked cars (“just for a few minutes”) and a decent spattering of private cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Because, like the Fairview/ Clontarf developments, the vast majority of the costs have nothing to do with cycling or cycle lanes, and in fact, have to do with water main replacement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    What your not getting is the vast majority of people driving into Dublin from outside of Dublin have no other alternatives. To drive these days costs an awful lot of money just look at petrol prices going up 4 fold did we see less cars going into Dublin?? Ans = No we didn't so adding another charge will not make a blind bit of difference. So its just going to be an additional tax on people having to work from outside Dublin. Like I also said until the 5 big CO2 emitting countries enter the conversation about cutting back then we can really have a conversation about CO2 up until that all of our drivers could get out and walk for ever more and we will be just fart of progress in the hurricane of emissions. So the crisis your on about we will have absolutely zero impact. But this charge will punish those working who are already at the pin of the collar with regards to high costs. So why are we penalizing workers who cannot afford to pay the rent or to buy in Dublin or those who would live in Dublin but for the fact that there is an absolute vacuum of houses to buy and rent for them to live in or workers who have no valid public transports alternatives but to drive. While I have my own specific circumstances I am sure every single person in the country has had to deal with inflation, an increase in energy prices, an increase in house prices, an increase in petrol/deisel, a deficit of housing for rent and to buy and a sh1tshow of a public transport network but don't let any of that change your green tinted narrative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Please show your data so.

    Because the data I shared confirms that loads of people are using cars for short journeys that are easily walked or cycled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    You're right.. even if Ireland moved back to a full lockdown level of motor vehicle usage it's still not enough to hit the targets...

    All these extra carbon taxes some people on here are salivating over, the only people they will affect are the "working poor" those who get up each morning to get themselves to work and their families to schools etc. from housing estates built outside the city that may or may not have access to expensive and inefficient public transport..

    It's interesting to see that while our old folks are getting €1000 energy bills and food inflation is 16.3% due to the costs of growing and transporting food, you still have calls for more taxes, and from what I see on here it's from the more able-bodied well off middle class types..



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    The discussion I have been having is about a congestion charge for people commuting into Dublin, I would be struggling to cycle into Dublin from where I am every day I aint a spring chicken and even at my best of health and at a younger age a near 80k cycle journey is just not feasible, maybe I will slap one kid on the cross bar and the other on the handle bars E. T style, god forbid it rains or I have to travel on a road that is not exactly smooth. I ignored your argument as you have out of date info. If you can come back with something with in the last 2/3 years then we can discuss. . I am sure there are people who use the car for trips that are not needed but providing a stat from 2014 is not exactly proof now is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    What do the people who can't walk or who don't have a bicycle do to get around?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    I totally acknowledge what your saying. And to be honest I agree about the political parties, so much so that I'm considering spoiling my vote next time around rather than award it yet again to someone in my constituency (Clare) who promises to represent people like me and then fails to do so.

    Cut a long story short my wife and I are sick to death of working 5 and sometimes 6 days a week, getting taxed to the hilt and then being told it's not enough, you gotta pay more tax because you're not "green" enough for this world. We literally have no other way of getting to our jobs without our cars. We can't afford a deep retrofit on our home to allow us to fit a heat pump. And I'll be damned if I have to remortgage my home to do so for a so called green agenda.

    I take comfort in knowing that the vast majority of my work colleagues and friends feel the exact same way. Like I said, the dressing room has been lost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What do people who can’t drive or don’t have a car do to get around?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    I would hazard a guess they will either stay put or have a relative drive over to give them a lift :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Why would you think that traffic patterns have changed substantially since that data was provided? WFH has impacted frequency of journeys but hasn’t impacted length.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Or they might walk or cycle, given that lots of them are facing short journeys.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Well if they're an elderly person for instance they will have their son/daughter drive them around...



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There’s the answer to the question you asked me so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Loads of people are also using cars to travel from dublin around the country, and to travel from the country to dublin.

    Open your eyes and look at all the major arteries into dublin M1, N2, M3, M4 M7,M11 all chock a block at peak times.

    Are these people supposed to cycle?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Great post- and this is what the green acolytes fail to see.

    No one in their right mind (or anyone with a bit of common sense I suppose) will get themselves into massive debt to save a few Bob on their heating or transport bills -it doesn’t make financial sense.



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