Picard 3x04- 'No-Win Scenario' ~~ { Spoilers Within }

ilovesmybrick · 09-03-2023 8:14am #1

Picard 3x04- 'No-Win Scenario' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** } Warning: This thread will contain spoilers

eadrom · 09-03-2023 10:51am

Ohhhh my god please turn on the damn lights! It's really getting annoying.

Otherwise, a fine episode. A slower one maybe but I don't mind those at all. I've seen people complain but I think the pacing has been fine this season. With 10 episodes to tell a story, you're going to have a handful in the middle that are a little "slow". At least they've not lost the plot (yet).

No Rafi was nice. Hope that doesn't mean she's getting the lion's share of the next episode.

So bloody dark though. Really annoyed me throughout the episode. Like WTF is this:

Otherwise, nothing too exciting I suppose but as mid-season episodes go, I liked it.

ilovesmybrick · 09-03-2023 12:38pm

I quite enjoyed that episode. Yeah it's riffing off about half a dozen older episodes, but it worked for me. Unfortunately one of those older tropes is that stupid concept of the holodecks having independent power, always hated that, though at least the holodeck comes equipped with Jameson!

I've been so conditioned by Discovery by this stage when Riker explained his trauma after his sons death and how it made him make the decisions he did I almost rolled my eyes. Except he explained the issue, opened up, and went back to his job. No histrionics, no tears, just a pretty good scene that explained everything we needed to know about his family issues, some of the changes there might be in his command style, etc. Efficient and effective.

The Shaw scene with Picard, while explaining a lot, seemed out of place, like they missed a scene with him having a few drinks or something. The shift between that scene and his previous one with Seven working out what to do about the changeling was a bit harsh, but overall again I thought he was great, and his interactions with Ryan were really enjoyable.

Overall a pretty solid episode, a good threat of the week style story, we got a pretty decent amount of background and contextual information for the main characters, and the story moves on. So is Vadic a shapeshifter herself, or is this some form of shapeshifter communicator, or some mixture of the two? Whoever she was talking to definitely gave me DS9 vibes from "The Ship", where the Vorta and Jemhadar would do anything at all costs to save a changeling from trouble.

pah · 09-03-2023 1:49pm

Yes it's dark but fuçk me is it good

AMKC · 09-03-2023 1:52pm

I agree about turning on the lights. It's so dark it's hard to see anything. Must have been the cost of electricity they had to cut back on it.

I find it bad that the Captain says cut power to all no essential systems and yet Picard is able to go into the Holodeck with Jack. Surely that is a non essential system.

Edit: awe I see well that's that explained anyway. Must be new Voyager or the Enterprise-D never had that system.

Also what a piece of crap the Titan is.

They have a whole supposedly well trained crew on the ship and you telling me they can not get even the impulse engines working or come up with an idea.

Also what a lame Captain Shaw is. His ship is falling into a black hole and he is twiddling his tumbs. Not a Captain I would like in charge.

Yep Shaw really is lame. All them just sitting in the Holodeck sure don't bother trying to get the ship working.

Shaw should have just be glad to survive that day miserable idiot.

Turns out Shaw is not so bad after all and fair play to Seven on knowing Fake Cammander LaForge.

I guessed it too before she did but it was very obvious anyway.

A great outcome and nicely done in the end but come on now unless your down scrubbing warp injectors or in the JJ Verse Enterprise engine Room there is no Grease Monkeys in 24/5Century Star Trek.

Loved the ending with a new life ir life's being formed and the music too. That had me crying in happiness a bit.

liamtech · 09-03-2023 2:37pm

Im enjoying the Season now i must say - its difficult to see what is going on - which i Like!

Do we believe the Founders are the main Villain?

I mean, its an odd choice dont you think? Dont get me wrong its SAVAGE to get some Post Dominion War canon knowledge - and I have no difficulty believing that some founders would have had an issue accepting the Defeat -

But as a send off for Picard and Co - If you are thinking of Enemies to dice with - The Borg, Romulans, The Cardassians (Chain of Command PTSD perhaps) -there are a few enemies that would certainly have personal issues with Picard. might be interesting to compile a list

Does the Dominion enter anyone's train of thought? If this were a Sisko centric show, then absolutely -

Anyway great to see them

A little less happy to see one die, and simply FALL DOWN, and lie there - Not quite how Shapeshifters work folks -

Captain Shaw's dialogue about the Borg was interesting, especially where he commented about 'the real Borg still being out there!!!!' - HERE HERE!

ilovesmybrick · 09-03-2023 3:28pm

Must be new Voyager or the Enterprise-D never had that system.

Actually I think the concept was introduced on Voyager. It was stupid then, but its one of those cases where a single silly idea for an episode plot point gets continued in other episodes. I think it was in one of those irritating Bride of Chaotica episodes, but I could be wrong.

Spear · 09-03-2023 3:34pm

A solid one again. The overall story may be barely advancing, but each of the minor threads made some progress. There's a few flashbacks, but nothing I could dismiss as filler, if anything they build to a nasty little reveal that Jack did reach out to Picard and was unknowingly rebuffed.

They also referenced Farpoint, but resisted the temptation for a cheap call back by using the Farpoint octopus alien thingy.

There's a few elements that I don't quite get. Is Vadic a changeling or some kind of hybrid? And is it the same for Jack Crusher at this point? His little hallucination sequence seems to be pointing to the big reveal for the later episodes.

A few lines of dialogue seemed a bit out of place though. Shaw refers to Play-doh, which felt anachronistic, and I doubt Seven's first thought upon hearing of pot is to think cannabis. But those are some very, very minor quibbles.

corkie · 09-03-2023 6:07pm

Enjoyable episode, at least we are moving on from the nebula and the episode wrapped up the same.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/No_Win_Scenario_%28episode%29

Posted 2 days ago, but don't think this theory is accurate after this episode.

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/star-trek-picard-riker-thomas.html

_Kaiser_ · 09-03-2023 8:25pm

Enjoyed that one. My main annoyance though continues to be with contemporary language, references and swearing. It's just unnecessary and takes me out of the story every time they do it.

fritzelly · 09-03-2023 9:14pm

That was a very nice episode, Picard swearing made me go What? (same happened on Criminal Minds when never done before and pulls you out)

Have to say this episode was when I really noticed how dark everything was but lack of power explains it I suppose

Overall looks like this is gonna be a great season and worthy of a rewatch

ilovesmybrick · 09-03-2023 9:36pm

I have to say, after the four episodes we've known him, I'm gonna be kinda pissed if they end up killing off Shaw or sidelining him. I really liked his aside to the crew after his rant to Picard when he said "at some point I replaced charm with being an asshole".

Like him or not, this guy is a really interesting character and you have a better sense of who is is and where he comes from in four episodes than I think you have of any newly introduced character in any of the new live action trek. I'd really like to see this guy developed further.

TheValeyard · 09-03-2023 11:41pm

Best episode of the season so far.

Very well done and the ending with space babies felt like real Trek.

Starting to really like the Chicago Dipsh1t. Hope they keep him around.

Definitely a bit dark in places. (Visually)

Also nice to see Beaverly be useful.

changeling communications seem a bit drastic.

breezy1985 · 10-03-2023 1:07am

Really enjoyed it until the end. Whatever Jack Crusher really is or has seems to be the kind of terrible mystery reveal that tanks these shows.

Great idea to not keep cutting the suspense by switching to Raffi and despite him not being a great captain I get a real kick out of Shaw.

The Skeletor guy was incredibly fuking lame. How did anyone over the age of 10 approve that look and eeevvvvviiillll voice.

Spear · 10-03-2023 1:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338605#Comment_120338605

It looked reminiscent of this to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpaRouocBes

breezy1985 · 10-03-2023 1:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338611#Comment_120338611

Good God what is that freakish nightmare you just showed me.

Slydice · 10-03-2023 2:27am

I wasn't sure what they were doing with this episode until the end with Jack in the bar 5 years ago.

Ooof, what a gut punch! Well done on that thread throughout the episode.

It was weird because before that , I never really felt they were in danger.

Sure, there was shocks of Vadik using a hand to communicate.. so Vadiks a changeling then I guess? .. and Vadiks boss looking scary.

Also the 😲shock of Picard saying **** 😁

Shaw did a good scene in the bar about the Borg. Got me reminded of Sisko a little. Only he wasn't a command officer at the time.

Not sure what Jack is involved with. The closest it reminds me of so far with that red door and city blown apart is the scene of future earth wiped out from an early Enterprise season finale.

~Rebel~ · 10-03-2023 8:53am

A few fairly minor issues, like just how arch villainess the baddy is, and how eeeevil the entity giving her orders was, and some of the dialogue just felt a bit out of place -- but all in all, thoroughly enjoyed that. Bets episode so far I think. They kept it simple and contained, focused on character, and told a good old fashioned 'escape from a problem' story.

I really hope this episode is a taste of things to come, and that they're going to keep the broader story smaller and more stripped down than previous seasons.

(That final Jack scene was all a bit 'Bray Wyatt' though 😅)

breezy1985 · 10-03-2023 8:57am

Jacks final scene was very similar to the opening of First Contact and he is the son of a Borg. Surely they are not going back to them again or to the Mass Effect aliens at the end of season 1.

Rawr · 10-03-2023 5:44pm

Ha…still watchable….still alright Trek. Dare I dream to hope that they’ll actually pull it off and stick the landing? I have more hope.

I liked Shaws backstory, and would have loved some flaskback scenes of Wolf 359…but i guess I understand why they couldn’t.

However; the episode implys that Picard considers Jameson cheap whiskey?! The cheek of him! How dare he?!! :P

breezy1985 · 10-03-2023 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341520#Comment_120341520

Well it would be the cheapest thing behind any good bar (Jack Daniels is about as close to whiskey as Aftershock is)

Evade · 10-03-2023 6:05pm

Surprisingly still maintaining quality. Hopefully there'll be a little more progression next week. The series has some obvious flaws and clashes with canon but it's much better than it was, I might even tie season three with SNW, it's almost a shame it'll be the last one but maybe this new writing team will get a fresh series to work on.

I miss the old changling effect but the new one is better and all changlings can't need to regenerate as often as Odo did otherwise the safest detection test would have been to lock everyone in a room for 24 hours.

Shaw having a Siskoish backstory is perfectly plausible but a little samey for TV.

Varik had Shinzon's knife, not a rare prop though Faith in Buffy had one too, and she did the Chang spin. What she is is kind of interesting I hope the reveal isn't disappointing.

They sure are getting a lot of use out of the 10-Forward set.

As others have said it still sounds too contemporary, someone should have taken a pass at the dialogue to give it that old 24th century polish.

breezy1985 · 10-03-2023 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341603#Comment_120341603

I agree about flaws. I don't understand the love Matalas is getting from certain sections of the fan base. This show is just as annoyingly dark literally, dark thematically (Vadic has to cut her hand off to communicate) and way too many contemporary songs and dialogue.

People are bending over backwards to praise this guy just to stick it to the other team.

As for sets I notice a lot of Titan crew seem to spend their time standing in corridors 🤣

Evade · 10-03-2023 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341625#Comment_120341625

I mean, season one and two tanked expectations most of the posters here qualified all their hopes when the trailers seemed kind of good. It's like being in an abusive relationship and getting punched two or three time a day when you only get one slap in the face it's a good day.

Evade · 10-03-2023 6:24pm

THIS IS AN ACTUAL SPOILER FOR THE VOICE AT THE END OF THE EPISODE READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

Another subtitle error said it was the Borg Queen, presumably the non Jurati one. There was a real parallel between that scene and the opening of First Contact.

I checked myself, the voice is identified in the P+ subtitles but not the Amazon ones.

breezy1985 · 10-03-2023 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341677#Comment_120341677

I really liked season 1. I assume more people did than didn't as they made a s2. That season was the worst heap of sht I have ever seen though.

It still doesn't rationalize how the new season is rated though. Some people are overplaying it as a way to attack the old team.

Evade · 10-03-2023 6:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341715#Comment_120341715

Season one was bad too.

breezy1985 · 10-03-2023 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341726#Comment_120341726

No it wasn't.

TheValeyard · 10-03-2023 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341740#Comment_120341740

Ah it fell off a cliff by e8. Then went full on Mass Effect, but this time sh1te.

Evade · 10-03-2023 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341763#Comment_120341763

Yeah, it was very rocky from episode two or three and then completely **** itself at the ending.

ilovesmybrick · 10-03-2023 6:49pm

@Evade

I miss the old changling effect but the new one is better

Yeah, I would have disagreed with you based on the effect in the first three episodes, just didn't seem well done to me, but the scene in this episode when the changeling escaped through the vents looked awesome. And lets be fair, the changeling effects in DS9 were always really ropey. In this episode it look somewhat lumpy and viscous, like dough. I thought it looked about as good as you can get in portraying such a weird lifeform.

Picard 3x04- 'No-Win Scenario' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

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Picard 3x04- 'No-Win Scenario' ~~ { Spoilers Within }