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Potential for €10 congestion charge, parking increases of 400% and a 20kmh reduction in speed limits

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    #632
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334324#Comment_120334324

    Well we will just have to agree to disagree and its a waste of time arguing with your green tinted opinion. This charge wont be coming in anytime soon and I will probably be finished working at that stage (my kids and grandkids will probably be finished working as well before it comes in). Keep an eye on the greens in the next election as there will be a lot of cannibalism from other parties almost all parties will have some green items on their agenda but they wont be as obnoxiously flawed as this suggestion. You only have to look at Labour who were historically the only party who engaged and actively supported unions but once FF and FG started pandering to the unions, the property that made the Labour party unique it has slowly but surely been dying a slow death over the last decade and a half... Its funny that people looking to implement this charge, point to the success of its implementation in Paris and London where the charge has worked and forget about the first class public transport system both cities have access too :).. So the argument is over before it has begun. So it wouldn't matter a jot what I say to you and vice versa we are just not going to agree.



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    #633
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334249#Comment_120334249

    Yeah exactly, not happening any time soon, it's just a model to work towards. Improve public transport, then restrict cars coming into the city by removing parking spaces and congestion charges. I would imagine it would be introduced incrementally, if at all, and you'll probably be retired by the time it happens so you'll be ok. It wont be just the Greens pushing for these kinds of things, pretty sure all the parties want to reduce car reliance, as does every progressive society in the world.

    Oh and by the way my mam turns 70 this year and my dad is 73 next month and they both still use their bikes and go for hour long walks regularly. They're not all invalids, and encouraging less car usage would make the population healthier well into their 70s.



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    #634
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334251#Comment_120334251

    5km? sure you could walk that. People come to work by public transport and cycle in from way out further than 5km. The likes of Swords and Balbriggan for e.g., anyone I ever worked with from places like that all took public transport to the city centre.

    The vast majority of working people are able bodied so you should stop using them for your argument just because you're concerned about having less money.



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    #635
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334405#Comment_120334405

    Well we will just have to agree to disagree and its a waste of time arguing with your green tinted opinion. This charge wont be coming in anytime soon and I will probably be finished working at that stage (my kids and grandkids will probably be finished working as well before it comes in).

    So in your view, you disagree with a possible charge that is unlikely to affect you significantly?

    Keep an eye on the greens in the next election as there will be a lot of cannibalism from other parties almost all parties will have some green items on their agenda but they wont be as obnoxiously flawed as this suggestion. You only have to look at Labour who were historically the only party who engaged and actively supported unions but once FF and FG started pandering to the unions, the property that made the Labour party unique it has slowly but surely been dying a slow death over the last decade and a half...

    Generally in our coalition governments, the small parties take the hit for the actions of the whole government and I've no doubt that the greens are likely to face a similar fate. Nonetheless, if any of the proposals announced the other day were to be brought in, they would not be brought in by the Greens: they would have been agreed to and brought in by the whole government (FG, FF & Greens) - it is important to make that distinction.

    Its funny that people looking to implement this charge, point to the success of its implementation in Paris and London where the charge has worked and forget about the first class public transport system both cities have access too :).. So the argument is over before it has begun. So it wouldn't matter a jot what I say to you and vice versa we are just not going to agree.

    I'm not necessarily looking to implement the charge. I just know that somethng needs to be done to reduce emissions. We need a gglobal approach but no point in us shouting about it at the UN if our own house is a mess. In addition, traffic in our cities is well beyond capacity and is having an impact on those using both public transport and active travel options. Whilst our public transport and active travel options are undergoing transformation, it is being held up by backwards thinking politicians and vested interests. Within our cities, we simply cannot bring public transport to its full potential carrying large numbers of people while we continue to prioritise a small number of people driving cars.



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    #636
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334424#Comment_120334424

    My point was that it appears to be a case of "I'm alright Jack" for those who live close to the city centre and are relavitly young, able bodied males, and well off/in office based(civil service type) jobs..

    I listened to the radio the other day on one example of a woman who lived outside Dublin and had to get the 7am train to be at her desk on time in the city for 9am, the issue was the fact that the childcare facility she had to leave her child at didn't open until 7.30am, so meant she needed her car to get the child to daycare and she into the office on time... and i'm sure this is a scenario repeating all across the country for thousands of families...

    Another poster says something like "Uh people should use park&ride"... which is again additional cost, and if thousands switched to that then there's not enough capacity at the Luas park&ride at the Red Cow for example... By the time these additional charges come in, the new Children's hospital in the heart of the city will be open, forcing families to pay more charges to avail of private parking at the hospital or putting additional stress and cost onto an already stressed out family...



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    #637
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334492#Comment_120334492

    The children's hospital will be located at St James'. It is probably the best located site in the country for access via public transport. It is on the red line which links Heuston, Connolly and Busaras.



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    #638
    raclle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭raclle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334249#Comment_120334249

    Of course its not going to happen. Its an absolutely insane idea. The ones agreeing with it are living in a different world to the rest of us.



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    #639
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334566#Comment_120334566

    I think parts of this will come in and sooner rather than later.

    I think it will be a slow creep over the next four to five years.

    Apologies I can't remember the name of the climate/economics expert I heard on Matt Cooper, but his take was that we're looking at long-term continuously high fuel costs because of government intervention. It might fall back a little in the short-term but the high prices we've seen over the last year are here to say.

    If you can't wfh or have access to public transport/cycling etc, which I think applies to an awful lot of people, this will be a work tax in my eyes.

    I think that could be offset by providing a voucher/rebate scheme for work journeys. I believe if you could wfh and your employer won't allow you, they should contribute to that scheme.

    Without that it would be grossly unfair on the average worker, especially in the context of how slack we've been on co2 usage in other areas, data centres, the retrofitting programme, forestry on peatland which produces c02, hvo and greenwashing, agricultural emissions and so on and so on.



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    #640
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334562#Comment_120334562

    Going off topic here a bit but it should have been located in Blanch on the grounds of the James Connolly..

    Can you see a stressed out family visiting a sick child who live outside Dublin and with no direct access to Buses or trains having to cart themselves, their other children and all the other items/luggage needed for a family and drive say 20km to get onto a Bus/train at 6am in the morning or 12 midnight just to get to the hospital in the middle of the city? If you can't see that then you're probably speaking from a privileged place...



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    #641
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334632#Comment_120334632

    How do all the sick kids get to Central hospitals in London and Paris?



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    #642
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334643#Comment_120334643

    In an Ambulance...



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    #643
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334651#Comment_120334651

    And Irish kids can't do it this way?



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    #644
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334671#Comment_120334671

    What are you talking about??



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    #645
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334672#Comment_120334672

    Well you're now using sick kids as an argument against you losing a few quid if you want to drive to Dublin City centre.

    How do the sick kids in London get to hospitals, they have a congestion charge here too and I don't see dead kids at bus stops often.



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    #646
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334715#Comment_120334715

    "I don't see dead kids at bus stops often." isn't that a positive! May be time for a keyboard break eh?



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    #647
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334632#Comment_120334632

    They would have to do all that to drive to Connolly regardless. My mum did it when my dad was in St James' for weeks getting a heart bypass. Ok, she didn't have any kids in tow. However, she can't drive and has mobility issues and doesn't have a smart phone so Connolly in Blanch would have been a lot more difficult to get to for her. She found it very easy and stress free at a time that was very stressful for her. It's a lot easier for someone new to the city to figure out how to get to James' from Heuston, Connolly or Busaras than it is to figure out how to get to Connolly.



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    #648
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334753#Comment_120334753

    Ok well done on avoiding the question



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    #649
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334758#Comment_120334758

    Every situation is different, I get that, though I think some people are starting to really lose the plot here on this matter...



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    #650
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331045#Comment_120331045

    The growing availability of eBikes, eTrikes, cargo bikes provide lots of options for older people who choose to cycle and need a little extra help and support to do so.



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    #651
    Lily Unsightly Composer
    Posts: 0 ✭ Lily Unsightly Composer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334671#Comment_120334671

    Not with the current state of the NAS over here anyway..!



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    #652
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331306#Comment_120331306

    Who do you think should pay to provide you with storage space for your private property at hospitals?



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    #653
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334804#Comment_120334804

    You're right, the wait times are scandalous: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40796280.html

    Yet some here are almost saying people should hop on a Bus/train to get their sick child into hospital! And for what, i'd rather save my child than a bit of Co2!!



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    #654
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330820#Comment_120330820

    I've never met any cyclist who delighted in having a 15 tonne bus on their tail pumping out toxic diesel fumes. Try it sometime.



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    #655
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,160 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    NHS is possibly an even bigger mess and congestion charges aren't an issue for kids going to hospitals. Jesus you're really clutching at straws here lads.



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    #656
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334817#Comment_120334817

    The same people who pay €millions for cycle lanes perhaps?



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    #657
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330749#Comment_120330749

    I'm trying to say that the Census data shows that lots of people use cars for short journeys that are easily walked or cycled.

    Two things can be true at one. Motorways can grind to halt AND lots of people can be using cars for short journeys that are easily walked or cycled.

    One part of the reason why motorways grind to a halt is because the roads that traffic is using when they get off the motorway is clogged up by lots of people using their cars for short journeys that are easily walked or cycled.



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    #658
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330739#Comment_120330739

    The Census data shows that lots of people aren't making that choice, and are using cars for short journeys that can easily be walked or cycled. They're not all carrying their paraplegic granny to hospital with a new 85" TV for her room, or whatever other standard excuse you want to use for taking the car.



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    #659
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330748#Comment_120330748

    That's a problem for sure. The solution to that problem isn't to move around with four empty seats all day instead.



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    #660
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330726#Comment_120330726

    Driving isn't possible for large sections of the population - those that are too young or too old or too poor or without support networks to help them get through the test and high insurance barriers, but those reasons never seem to get mentioned when car centric planning happens.

    No mode of transport is going to work for everyone. This isn't a gotcha reason not to provide facilities for cycling, as our drive our planet to extinction.



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    #661
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Given that anytime I have tried to cycle it's been an utterly terrifying experience in Cork, I can't see myself switching to it as a regular thing. The infrastructure just isn't adequate. I would use it if it were.

    I've had people beep at me, punishment passes in the city centre and all sorts of weird. It isn't a pleasant experience at all.

    I know there's a which came first, the chicken or the egg type thing but there's also a need to actually put in infrastructure that works.

    We are adding the late phases of a project i.e. congestion charging, without doing the decades of hard slog and infrastructure build out that was done in other countries and cities.

    Ireland's not in the same place that a lot of European cities are in. Most of our cities and towns are car focused and planned in almost a North American model when it comes to having had zero focus on active transport.

    Even walking around Cork, many suburban areas don't even have footpaths, and we would be very quick to laugh at Americans driving everywhere but we do the same thing and put in similarly crappy pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. There are loads of places, mostly that were in the former county council managed area that are basically built as a bunch of cul-de-sacs connected to what were rural boreens without having added adequate footpaths never mind bike infrastructure.

    Bus network is also an unreliable disaster and there's endless objections to Bus Connects, which makes it look like it will probably never be delivered.



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