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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    If they'd read this thread, they'd be gone off looking for the Left Wing government that was supposedly already in place in Ireland.

    And I'm guessing by this, you don't think that that is the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Do you think they believe this or are just trolling?

    I mean, nobody with anything above a handful of braincells would buy this given the steps GOP legislature is taking to ban access to healthcare, access to voting and banning books in the classrooms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    This is a Fall lyric and I claim my 5 pounds-ah



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The Gary Lineker incident this week has shone a very bright light on UK government strategy and messaging and that of their supporters within the media.

    The leading of the 10pm news on BBC 1 with Gary Lineker tweet rather than the legislation that it referred to was a very significant media in the story of how the media operates.

    The UN, Amnesty, the EU all came out to say that they are either extremely concerned about this bill, or that it is outright illegal and yet the most influential news outlet in the country (and one with huge standing worldwide) led with commenting on how a contracted sports presenter commented on it on his private twitter account and reported that he would be spoken to about keeping such views private and to not say anything that could indicate a bias on the part of the organization.

    Bear in mind that this was the reaction when at the same time when the BBC chairman reportedly was involved in arranging a loan for Boris Johnson in the weeks before Johnson appointed him to his role. Also, a board member went from the BBC to the role of communications director at Number 10 Downing Street and then back to the BBC for his role on the board.

    Alan Sugar, of the Apprentice, Jeremy Clarkson (formerly of Top Gear) both have history of expressing very strong political views while being connected with the BBC without any comment on them doing so from top brass iirc, but definitely not leading the nightly news with the fact that they said whatever it was.

    And anyone paying any sort of attention to BBC political coverage and the people involved could not pretend that Laura Keunnsberg and Fiona Bruce don't do a pretty poor job of hiding any bias that they may possess in their private life. Andrew Neil actually led a very politically motivated magazine while actually being the head political commentator within the BBC (before he went on to launch a right wing channel. lol).

    And I'm not saying that these people shouldn't have biases. they're human, of course they're going to have opinions and it is not easy to keep them hidden at all times though Laura and Fiona have significantly let the mask slip in recent years. But the targeting of Lineker in the manner in which he was targeted this week is very very telling.

    Some humorous outcomes of the week was people like Julia Hartely-Brewer who spends so much time complaining about Woke Cancel Culture taking a break from that to demand that Lineker be fired without a hint of irony.

    But, the biggest message here, and why the whole thing is so relevant, and why Lineker was scapegoated as he was (or attempted to be) was that this whole government policy is so misguided, and being done to deflect from the real issues people in the UK are continually dealing with by pointing the finger at vulnerable people in the week after tens of people like them died in the waters of the Mediterranean.

    Massively increased utility bills (while energy companies post record profits), a crumbling NHS with people spending several hours waiting for Ambulances, lack of trust in police after very negative events, strikes in virtually all key industries because people are just so beaten down with trying to make ends meet in the current economy.

    And what is the elephant in the room here that I haven't mentioned yet? Brexit! That has influenced everything and the reason Rishi Sunak is standing behind a dais this week with the words 'Stop the Boat's' on it and why Suella Braverman is attempting to introduce such policies is because it deflects from everything else and creates a culture war to both distract from the real problems, and bring their supporters out in force. Cue thread title. Again.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    And for anyone particularly interested in what the Right in the US is up to.

    This week, Tennessee Republican legislators rejected a bill that would mandate that children had to be 16 to get married. And in Arkansas, Sarah Huckabee Sanders signed in to law a bill that makes it easier for companies to hire people under 15.

    So, yeah, the people who are concerned about draw queens reading stories to children definitely have their best interests at heart.

    And again, with respect to the thread title, they make noise about trans people getting everyone to look in that direction, and then they sign in to laws that will lead to child exploitation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    The Gary Lineker situation also proves how stupid people are.

    The British government attempting to stop illegal immigrants entering their country is not in any way comparable to imprisoning your own citizens and putting them in gas chambers, or trying to invade the whole of europe but Gary and his supporters seem to think it is (his reference to 1930's germany is clearly a reference to nazi's before any smart arse tries to claim he didn;t comapre them to nazi's).

    Why are countries outside of europe allowed to have very strict conditions about who can enter their country and yet for some bizzare reason every country in europe must have a complete open borders policy or they're accused of being nazi's by the likes of Gary.

    Once you start comparing people to Nazi's (with zero real evidence) you've already lost the argument.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Except that Nazi's didn't immediately start doing what they ended up doing.

    They started by identifying a group (or groups) of people and blaming them for society ills and then that grew in various ways to them ultimately doing what they did.

    Lineker didn't equate British policy with any of those actions, he said that the language the government using was akin to the language used at that time.

    Is it not possible to compare some elements of various groups and characters without it being assumed you are saying two things are exactly the same? Is that not literally what the word 'compare' allows you to do?

    I mean, it would be stupid to suggest the British government is equal to Nazi era German Government, it's also stupid to not understand exactly what it was he said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Best thing Lineker could do is to not try and draw any parallells with nazisim.

    He knew exactly what he was doing.

    Using yours and Gary's argument you could compare gigantic public works programs to nazisim also.

    In real terms there is nothing even remotely similar with anything the british government has done and the start of nazism in 1930's germany.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Best thing Lineker could do is to not try and draw any parallells with nazisim.

    Why?

    The Nazi's were lauded in British and US circles in the early and mid-1930's... (Link)

    With the benefit of hindsight, it seems odd that anyone in Britain would have wanted to make friends with Adolf Hitler, the most recognisable face of evil in the 20th century. But in the 1930s, many people in this country looked to Hitler with admiration. He was applauded, like Mussolini, for restoring order and national pride, bringing economic revival, and, not least, for suppressing the Left and forming a bulwark against the menace of Bolshevism. Admiration was not confined to the fanatics who supported the British Union of Fascists. Hitler had also impressed others in high places, those among the social and political elite of the land.

    Conservatives are quick to defend the legacy of Winston Churchill, they would do well to remember his words;

    'Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.'

    (Again for those who won't read the last few posts, I'm not saying that modern day conservatives are motivated to do the same as what the Nazi's did, but I do agree that their language is similar to that used by the Nazi's soon after they emerged as a significant influence in the mid-1930's.)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    There is nothing wrong with "restoring order and national pride, bringing economic revival" just like there is nothing wrong with providing free healthcare and education.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    As always with the Republican Party they are talking out of both sides of their mouth. They love these grand slogans, as long as there are carveout for their own special interests

    • "We're for freedom of speech" - but want to ban books we don't like and boycott products who have "gone woke"
    • "We want to crack down on Government handouts" - unless it's to large corporations or the super wealthy
    • "Personal Liberty is of the utmost importance" - but woman can't decide what to do with their own bodies
    • "We want to defund Government" - except for the police of course and lots of other things if we thought about this for more than 10 seconds




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    There is when its one groups subjective version of what is 'order' and 'national pride' though no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The phrase that 'Every accusation is an admission' has never been more truthful than watching Conservatives over the last number of years.

    It's gotten to the point where if one of them said 'We shouldn't allow Democrats to harvest organs and sell them on the black market, I'd be wondering which of them was ordering surgical equipment to their constituency office.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭Hoop66



    Restoring order & national pride are empty, meaningless slogans. Particularly when you consider that most of the "disorder" in this case was caused by brownshirts, i.e. the shock troops of Nazism. It is also not necessary to descend into fascism in order to bring economic revival.

    It is foolish to try and draw an equivalence between the two.

    Are you claiming that given a choice between free healthcare and "national pride" you would choose the latter?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    And news just breaking that Gary Lineker is to step back from Match of the Day until there is clarity about his social media use.

    Expect the free speech advocates to rush to his side any moment now.

    We're officially living in a time where pointing out that someone is using Nazi era language and rhetoric, is worse than using Nazi era language and rhetoric.

    And further evidence of who the BBC want to think of most these days is this news, they are not going to broadcast the most famous TV natural historian ever because they are concerned about a right wing backlash to the actual truth being told.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    No, my claim is that not all things nazis and communists did were evil.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    If you ever find yourself defending Nazi's, or saying they weren't all bad just to not have those you see yourself aligned with appear to be in the wrong, you really should stop and have a good hard think about everything that has gotten you to that point and ask yourself do you want to go ahead and hit Send.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    He shouldn't have been removed from the show.

    Although it is hard to feel much sympathy for him just because he's such an unbearably smug hypocrite.Note his apparent objection to Qatar's human rights yet he goes to broadcast the tournament form there and the fact he's being investigated by HMRC currently.

    The episode of the Attenborough programme that is not show on BBC TV was not even commissioned by the BBC it was commissioned by WWF so that is why it isn't part of the series being broadcaster (of course the Guardian left that out f their article so that they can rabble rouse)

    Post edited by Jack Daw on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    I'd imagine Sky Sports head of talent acquisition is waving a very large cheque at him about now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    From the article. Bold mine.

    The documentary series was part-funded by nature charities the WWF and RSPB, but the final episode will not be broadcast along with the others and will instead be available only on the BBC’s iPlayer service. All six episodes were narrated by Attenborough, and made by the production company Silverback Films, responsible for previous series including Our Planet, in collaboration with the BBC Natural History Unit.

    A - You should edit your post

    B - What difference does it make and how would it have been rabble rousing to leave it out which they didn't do anyway?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Celticfire


    Why haven't you posted these titbits from the article?

    The BBC strongly denied this was the case and insisted the episode in question was never intended for broadcast.


    In a statement provided after the story was first published, the BBC said: “This is totally inaccurate, there is no ‘sixth episode’. Wild Isles is – and always was - a five part series and does not shy away from environmental content. We have acquired a separate film for iPlayer from the RSPB and WWF and Silverback Films about people working to preserve and restore the biodiversity of the British Isles.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Sorry, do we have to post an entire article now?

    The first paragraph states that the Guardian has been told the reason for them not broadcasting the episode.

    Do you really think the BBC are going to put their hand up immediately and state, Yep that's why we did it? If they were that morally upstanding, there'd have been no conversation about Lineker this week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Banning books, what do you mean by that?

    The left are currently censoring and rewriting childrens books among others. Think you got that one wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Celticfire



    Sorry, do we have to post an entire article now?

    Nope, you just post a click bait Guardian headline as an example of the far right having a programme taken off the air as alleged by an anonymous source to a left leaning paper. Meanwhile the BBC themselves has said that this is not the case. Did The Guardian ask Attenborough for clarification or comment if this is true instead of just relying on the anonymous individual?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You want me to reach out to the guardian before I post an article of theirs?

    Still lolling at your insistence that because the BBC said something, they should be believed on such a matter.

    Tell me, why do you think they might have chosen to not show the final episode in a series that had already been filmed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,757 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    This is the straw that broke the camels back regarding Lineker.

    He is an unbearably smug hypocrite as you say and has been trolling away on Twitter for months now despite multiple warnings by the BBC it seems.

    He works for the BBC and has to be impartial and signed a specific code of conduct.

    He will be no loss, he is a terrible presenter with his dreadful puns and falseness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Books that have been available in schools for years (and in some cases generations) have now been banned, in certain districts, due to some adults hyperventilating about their content. Pen America is a free-speech group who have been tracking this phenomenon. The general topics most commonly being censured are:

    1. having LGBT characters or
    2. having main characters who aren't white (Critical Race Theory, innit)


    This has been entirely driven by an online campaign driven and stoked up by right-wing groups on social media. It's led to often violent and explosive school board meetings in the affected areas where protesters have shown up to shout down and intimidate officials.

    News piece on it here:




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Celticfire


    Because I've already quoted the BBC from your article that stated the series is 5 episodes not 6. But you as usual can never accept that you're wrong so I'll quote from the BBC Dated 15th AUGUST 2022,

    Wild Isles (working title) is a major new five part natural history series from Silverback Films for BBC One and iPlayer, that aims to do for the wildlife of Britain and Ireland what the Planet series have done for the wildlife of the world.


    The five part series will have an introductory episode, explaining why Britain and Ireland are globally important for nature, while the remaining four episodes will celebrate our isles’ four key habitats - woodlands, grasslands, freshwater and marine.


    So pardon me if I accept the BBC over The Guardian article, you continue lolling.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    The books are explicitly pornographic and are not suitable for sex-ed teaching. Nothing wrong with removing them from classrooms. This does not mean they are being banned. A parent can go buy said books and give to thir children if that's what they want to do. The right is not banning any books.. It also says a lot about the modern wave of leftism that it would find rhold dahl books more offensive than books with graphic depictions of penetration. They are a cult.



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