Parental care - I just don't want to do it

Throwaway505 · 04-03-2023 6:39pm #1

Even writing this is making me feel a bit guilty. I (37M) have always been very close to my parents (75M and 75F). I lived at home until my mid-20s, then moved about 4hrs away for college. I then got a job there and bought a small house, living there for about 10 years before work got too stressful and I got a new job about 1hr from my parents house. I moved back in with the plan being to buy a place once I was settled. Then, I had problems selling my house which delayed me moving out again, then COVID came along which delayed it further (at the time if I left who knew if I'd even be allowed to visit with lockdowns) and then my mum was diagnosed with dementia. That made moving out much more complicated. Six years later, I'm still living there, and I feel like I'm getting ever more trapped. I don't want to have to care for them, I want to live my life. My living conditions are ok - nice big bedroom. It is very comfortable, but the rest of the house is shared with them. Forget the freedoms I had when I was living alone, no women or any friends over and we're in the countryside anyway. But the place is becoming an old persons house unless I take over a lot of the maintenance and garden work. Outside DIY or gardening help is a no-no. My dad is too proud!

In the back of my mind I've long been very worried about what to do when one of them dies, churning it over in my head daily. The other won't be able to cope. I work in the engineering field, 4 day week from 8am to 6pm. It's hard, and I'm exhausted with it at times but I enjoy it. If I left that job I'd never get back into the industry again given recruitment. So the idea of caring for them when one dies isn't compatible but yet I see no other solution. It has been a thorn in my side for the past few years with the worries of what would happen if one was unwell. I couldn't really talk to them about it - all I'd get is a "we'd manage". My mum is slowing down, she is lucid but frail and a conversation is at the speed of an old person with all sorts of "erm...er.. whats that word". It drives me mad as I want a conversation at my own speed of thinking - ie: people my own age. My hobbies all involve travel - I have good savings so do a monthly holiday and city break (I'm VERY lucky there), gigs abroad (no scene at all here) and extensive hiking. Other than that its just the computer for me.

Anyway, all of this came to a head towards the end of 2022 when my mum had a fall and she has spent the last while in hospital. This immediately took an axe to my hobbies as I can't travel and really, my entire life. She's miserable in hospital and I can visit from work, so all of my lunchtimes involve me visiting her, then working late to make up any time. So exhausting.

My dad has been ok, he's very fit for his age and manages alright, but I worry about him on his own from 630am to 7pm daily - he visits her every few days and I drive him up weekend evenings. He needs company, which I'm doing at evenings and weekends. But this is making my hobbies untenable because I don't feel I should be out of the house for that long - certainly not multiple overnights. Work is one thing - but me going off on a jolly for holidays and leaving one in hospital and one at home on their own is hard. My dad, to be fair, has always said that he would make sure I'm not effected by having to care for him, but the reality of this last fortnight shows me that he just NEEDS some help himself. Good dinners, tablet taking, reminder to heat the house, chopping wood.

My mum fully expects us to care for her and is becoming very entitled, selfish and obstinate - no other relatives have EVER been in a nursing home and she will point blank refuse, considering a nursing home a form of abandonment. She commented recently that a neighbour put her mother into a home "to rot, because he couldn't be bothered taking care or her. He was brought up better than this" and that she'll need a lot of help from me and my dad when she gets home - which will be soon enough hopefully. Even when I fluffed her pillow in the hospital she said that was "good practice" for when she's home. I had to cancel a holiday over this fall - thats fine, I'm not complaining just this once, but when I said I wasn't going I got a "well thats life" from her rather than a sorry. Dementiais awful.

Support networks are nonexistant outside of the visits the medical team would provide. I don't have any siblings to help, nor does my mum, and my dad only has two 80+ year old sisters in another country. I have friends, but no close friends to rely on or even talk to. All of my friends are hobby specific. I don't have a partner either - partly a problem of living at home I guess and partly my own fault - I don't want kids which closes many doors. I have had girlfriends in the past but by bad luck they've been gold diggers, have had baby fever, or have been terribly controlling. Thats another thread. But basically there is noone going to raise a finger for my own health or my parents care and having seen how my hobbies collapsed when one parent is out of action for even a short while terrifies me for when (not if) something happens again. One in hospital, I'm screwed. One dies, I'm screwed. I don't want to have to care for them, simple as that, I want to go live my life and I resent getting dragged into this when I see other people my age happy with their own partners and freedoms which I once had but don't have anymore. All I see are closing doors, closing faster because I'm nearly 40. But just walking off or saying NO or ignoring the problem doesn't change the fact that they will NEED help and there is no-one else to do it.

No scenario I can imagine has me free of this caring responsibility - I've always said I'll help out when I can, don't get me wrong there - but thats never enough in the care world. It's 100% of your time every day and I am dreading a future of further losing what I love doing. I could lose an untold number of years, theose years will be miserable, and then I'll be too old myself. I've tried to set up some boundaries subtly but she's not listening. He ignores the reality of how difficult this is for me, continually calling me very lucky in life. In ways, I am, but in ways I'm not. I don't have a partner to come home and decompress to and no woman in her right mind would take me on with these burdens now. It's all making me very weary of life and I'm aware and clued in that I could get very depressed very easily here.

I suspect people will say "move out" . But thats not really an option. Not with house prices and availabilty nearby. It would also be such a drastic change of character that it'd be worrying. Not to mention that there is an inheritance tax reason for staying put. But I still feel awful about even writing this because... well.. they are my parents. They brought me up, supported me, and are family. I should help. But I want to be unencumbered and go on say a 10 day road trip, without having to worry about them constantly or, well, having to stay at home instead. I want to go out on a date and not feel pressure to get home because they are generally worried old people. I want to stay in a hotel without having to text them to say I've arrived. I know I'll miss them unmercifully when they're gone though.

So am I the asshole in this situation? Is what I'm feeling valid or should I just be thankful they are still alive and do the "right thing", give up my life and help them out?

Witcher · 04-03-2023 6:52pm

'Not to mention that there is an inheritance tax reason for staying put'

The mask always slips

-------------------------------------------

Breach of Charter - not appropriate in Personal Issues.

MarkR · 04-03-2023 7:07pm

You were happy enough to move home as an adult and let them help you out. If you want to break free, you're going to have to make some arrangements for in home care. They sound like they could be candidates for for some in home assistance while you move out.

They retain a level of independence, and you gain your own independence.

You need to talk to your parents, let them know that you want an independent life as much as they do, and then maybe rent your own place somewhere more central.

whiteframe · 04-03-2023 9:25pm

I think there's two parts to your situation: your parents, and your own life perspective (what you mention about relationships). I'll focus on the fist.

Only child, ageing parents living in the countryside, a house and garden that needs care, with no family or other support network, and a full time job (with what sounds like a long commute to that job?)... it must be a total nightmare for you. The reality is your parents are not that old. Your mom's dementia could well drag on for years and she might end up in a care home whether she agrees to it or. Your dad could also live for another 15-20 or more years, so you might be close to retirement before you see any inheritance (you mention the tax benefits of living at home).

I would start by contacting your local health nurse and see what the options are where you live. I assume your parents won't get any HSE home help hours since they have a family member living with them. Still, at the very least, you should be entitled to a chat with the health nurse and some visits from an occupational therapist to check the suitability of the house for when your mom comes out of hospital (and discuss adaptations for living with dementia). You could try to organise private home home for a few hours day. The going rate arranged on an individual basis is €13-20/hour. The health nurse or your GP may have some contacts, or try to post an ad in local shops.

You could also look into short-term respite care to give you and your dad a break for a few weeks a year (this can sometimes be state funded).

standardg60 · 04-03-2023 10:04pm

I know you said you suspected it OP but get out, get out now. There is zero benefit to staying, their legacy is ruined as is yours. It amazes me that parents would stifle their child's prospects to live a life. They are adults, it's time for them to grow up.

Is there two of you in it though? You've sold a house so surely you're in a position to buy or rent somewhere? The inheritance tax thing bothers me, are you more focussed on money than happiness?

This is clearly one where you're in control of all the solutions OP

GalaxyExplorer · 04-03-2023 10:37pm

Both you and your parents are in a tough situation.

I am sure you deeply love your parents, and you are doing your best to care for them, which you should remember is extremely important. You are being a good son. The danger is that you are becoming resentful about the impact this is having on you being able to live, and develop, a normal life. I am sure your parents love you and want the best for you, but perhaps they do are staring into the abyss of what to do in this situation, and depending on you more than they realise. Ultimately, there is a stigma about going into a home, and most people of that generation don't want to end up there.

The expectations of your parents are also likely at odds with the modern standard of living. You reference the desire to go on a long road trip, this is something they would seldom do, so perhaps don't even see the impact you not being able to do this could have.

My advice is as follows;

1. You love your parents, you need to be there for them in some capacity, otherwise, you will feel guilty and they will suffer (be it a fall, or other issue that crops up). So I totally disagree with cutting loose completely.

2. Being there for them does not mean being a slave to them. You need to organise some form or care or respite, and balance it with your own life. Your mother may be totally against a home, but you will need to make some uncomfortable decisions, and they may not be perfect.

3. I am sure your parents love you, dearly. In a better state they would also want to see you live your life to the full. My mother was very ill, yet told me to go and live my life, she would be "fine without me". There was no way she could manage, I sacrificed my time, career and time with my own family, and took care of her. If I didn't, she would have been miserable. I don't regret it, at all. I loved her so dearly, to leave her alone would have affected me mentally. But, I also needed a break, and you need to rely on supports. Even though ratcheting down your care for them may be uncomfortable, it will feed in to the greater picture of how an adult should develop and live their best life.

Also, try and avoid becoming resentful.

babyducklings1 · 05-03-2023 12:48am

Could you build on an annex or put up a log cabin or something to have your own space. You don’t sound happy at all and as an only child you do carry all of this alone which is understandably very difficult.

You will have to make some decisions as this isn’t good for you or your parents. Can your Mum get respite, can you get a home help? Do you have any cousins you can talk to or other relatives? A problem shared and all that. Could you even talk to your gp for advice or anyone trustworthy. You need your life and this isn’t an easy situation but people do navigate their way through difficult situations and talking about the difficulties Is a really good start towards resolving them and improving things. Wishing you well.

The DayDream · 05-03-2023 12:59am

Well all you can do is hope for the best - that they both die soon within weeks of each other. Then you'd be free and happy, right?

Obviously I'm being facetious but the point is - stop worrying about what's going to happen because you just don't know. You just said yourself moving out isn't an option.

So if you aren't going to move out then this IS going to be how things are. You can't say, oh, I want to still live here purely to avoid having to rent, I don't want to be caring for my parents though, just living in their house even though I have a good job.

What if instead of one of them passing, it was you? You got hit by a bus or something tomorrow. They would have to manage. And so they would do if you decide to make a change.

Until you actually act on your desire to live another way, you're worrying about stuff you made up in your head. You can do whatever you want. My mother is older too and is widowed but she wouldn't expect me to stay here if I had a job that paid a good wage, and I wouldn't do it either - I also don't want kids but I would like to have a partner and that would mean moving out to create a space that can accommodate coupling up. And my mother would understand that.

Everyone's parents get older and more feeble but they don't all stay at home forever to take care of them, especially if they don't want to. If it comes down to it, I'll do it for my mother even though it will suck, but that's because she raised me and my 3 sisters on her own as my dead was a deadbeat drunk and my sisters don't live close by and unlike me, they have kids.

TheadoreT · 05-03-2023 7:32am

Your parents seem like a handy excuse to blame your frustrations and life shortcomings on. It was your choice to sell up and move back there in your early 30's. 6 years is a long time(that's 3 pre covid).

Situations always seem worse when you're wrapped up in them day to day. So getting out is a must imo, you'll probably give more loving care on a part time basis than a resentful full time carer.

From selling your house and saving for 6 years you must have a lot of money. This gives you more options than you're saying if you're willing to actually spend some of it. You can rent and assist with care payments and go on living your life. Assume you'll be receiving your parents house eventually so you have that peace of mind.

Your relationship prospects aren't doomed because of this situation, that's too easy an excuse and I think that narrative suits you more than the reality.

miamee · 05-03-2023 9:26am

That's a tough situation to be in. You sound very busy at the moment with hospital visits etc and it's hard to see the bigger picture when you're consumed with the day to day.

I'd suggest building up a local support network if you can. Neighbours who can look in on your parents when you're away, call for tea, get some shopping for them, just keep in touch. If you knew there was someone doing that it might give you peace of mind to off for a few days or more.

Your parents are really not that old though people age differently, you'll know yourself if they are 'old' for their age or not. Do they have their own social circle outside of each other? That would be something to encourage even just for your dad if it's not suitable for your mother right now.

You can't do all of this on your own so even if you think you can do things alone for now, start looking at building a local support network of friends, neighbours etc.

Donald Trump · 05-03-2023 9:33am

Let them sell up and use their money to pay for the best of care in their remaining years. You can go off and do whatever you like and make your own way. If there is anything lieft if an inheritance, maybe they can leave some of it to you.

Hannibal_Smith · 05-03-2023 2:22pm

Have you spoken to the public health nurse, or the staff in the hospital? A friend of mine is going through something similar with her mother. The mother has very advanced dementia and lives at home and they've organised some sort of respite care every now and again to give the family a break. Devoting 100% of your existence to looking after your parents is a mammoth task and if it means you running yourself ragged, you have to explore options and ways to get help. I'm not at that stage myself with my parents so I'm not too well up on exactly what help is out there. Here's a link to the HSEs website on Caring for an Elderly person. There might be something there that might be of some help to you?

iniscealtra · 05-03-2023 4:04pm

You have sold your house. You should have the funds to build on a granny flat so you can have your own space and have friends/ girls over.
Employ some help for your Mam.
Get a cleaner.
Look into local day Centre/ meas on wheels.

It’s hard being the only carer but you do seem to love your parents. Get some help.

05-03-2023 5:17pm

OP, I know of a number of people of your own vintage in a similar type of scenario, so you are certainly not in a very unusual position. It is nearly always extremely stressful looking after your own parents, especially when one has become demanding or had a change of personality through dementia or any other medical condition. There’s the feeling of isolation, more especially in a rural setting, and hopelessness that the whole situation is likely to get progressively worse. It’s just hard to take.

I myself was lucky in that whilst my Dad did develop strokes and vascular dementia which went on for years, entirely smoking related, he at least got a place in a HSE nursing home, although it was a seriously depressing place. Ironically he became lucid shortly before his death, it was quite extraordinary the way he asked them not to place a PEG feeding tube “it would be a waste of time, as I’m about to die anyway”. Before that he either rarely spoke or didn’t make any sense when he did. My mum lived on with me in my apartment to age 89, and remained lucid for all her days. She gave me Enduring Power of Attorney so that if she did ever “lose my marbles and become difficult” as she put it, “you can put me in somewhere“. She had sold the family home in Dublin, and gave me (only child) the proceeds to buy my own place. Her strategy to divest assets was to prevent HSE or anyone else grabbing hold for any Fair Deal Scheme.

I know your situation is quite different, but I do have an appreciation of the frustration of one parent literally losing their marbles and becoming difficult, with the other philosophical but becoming naturally frailer. The feeling that precious years of your active life are flittering away on “duty”, years you won’t get back, is very understandable, and the fact it all falls on your shoulders alone. It is like an entrapment.

Do get onto HSE for supports, although it’s a postcode lottery as to what you’ll get and you need to fight for it, even going as far as lobbying politicians and making as great a nuisance of yourself as possible. Shouldn’t have to be the case in a well-functioning system as is the case in France & Scandinavia. There must be Facebook & WhatsApp groups now for people in your situation where at least you could vent your frustrations.

The idea of building a “granny flat” got your own privacy is not a bad one at all and would add value to the house. Inheritance is sadly very important these days, with the housing market the way it is and let nobody tell you it’s selfish to want a roof over your head and security for the future.

Having companionship with a lady should not be off the cards completely. My advice here would be to go on the apps, show pictures of you being active, doing your engineering work and also being relaxed, to make you a justifiably interesting prospect, along with a bio of your present situation. Eg “Presently I live in my parents’ home as they need my care pending whatever supports I might get, but I would love the enduring friendship of a lady who might understand this situation, and when opportunities arise I would enjoy the company”. This way you mightn’t get a whole lot of hits, but they would be self selecting and not more shallow types. Go for it.

Sardonicat · 05-03-2023 10:26pm

Find out who your Public Health Nurse is from your GP - actually the discharge co-ordinator should be onto that already in the hospital. Have a chat with them about what Homecare package your mother will be getting upon discharge. Emphasise the fact that you work full time and are not in a position to become your mother's carer. Your mother may be reluctant at first but don't let that be the reason to not do this. Your mother has dementia which will get worse and it is better to have the care package in place now. You will have to be prepared to fight for every little bit of support but some is available. You could also talk to your PHN re day centres for your mother- her dementia diagnosis will help here.

Finally, your mother's attitude could actually be a symptom of her dementia., so try to keep that in mind.

Public Health Nurse, OP. And contact daily if you have to, to get whatever supports are available to both your parents.

Xterminator · 06-03-2023 4:12pm

My mum fully expects us to care for her and is becoming very entitled, selfish and obstinate

people with and dementia often exhibit aggressive behavior as a kind of defense mechanism.

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/symptoms-and-diagnosis/symptoms/preventing-aggression

good into there on how to respond appropriately.

Caring for older people is challenging. dont be the full time carer if your heart isn't in it. some good advice has been given for getting what help is available in the community.

hullaballoo · 09-03-2023 12:41pm

I completely see where you're coming from OP, completely natural to have these concerns and not to be essentially duty bound into becoming a full time carer for elderly parents. I don't think the harsh comments are in any way warranted either. Financial interests are of course in play, and so they should be.

I agree with some suggestions on here, get a cleaner, gardener, caterer, set up/automate reminders re heating and tablets. If they complain about you getting "home help" for them, tell them it's not for them it's for you.

As things progress as they get even older, it might become difficult to withdraw yourself at that stage so I'd free yourself up as much as possible now with 3rd party help and get more as required.

Purple Mountain · 09-03-2023 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334613#Comment_120334613

Yea I agree. I think the OPs honesty is refreshing.

He's speaking aloud the thoughts of many people in this situation.

screamer · 09-03-2023 8:48pm

I’d tell them how you feel. I’d also see if they were willing to sell up their house and go in with you to buy a property that would be better equipped for them and closer to services so that they could get some in home help and you could live your life. A property that would let you and them live together but have separate accommodation would be best, so you’re there but you have your own space, own door etc. you’re an only child so it might be feasible. Life is about compromise and that means no one gets what they want, but they get what works. At the same time, I see my own MIL who has an adult child living at home whom she does everything for, they live there Scott free, and will inherit everything, so my attitude is, well you’re getting it, so earn it, looking after her is their responsibility, and is only paying back the 40+ years of ass wiping she’s done for them.

I do feel sorry for you, it’s not a good situation and you need to find a compromise that works for you all.

Skibunny77 · 11-03-2023 6:57am

Your expectation around inheritance is identical to your mother's expectation around care. I'm in healthcare and see this all the time, where adult children expect to benefit from parents assets yet expect parents to manage a lot of their own care without using their own assets. A reminder that our nursing home sector is poorly regulated, Hiqa have been saying this for years and I see it in healthcare. Primetime have done several shows on nursing homes and unsafe care in the last two years, I wouldn't go into one either!

So your inheritance isn't set in stone, your parents care needs may dictate that the house and their assets are used for their care, care you understandably don't want to entirely provide.

You need to have difficult conversations with your parents around their expectations and what you can deliver. I suggest you go see a counsellor and really work through the dynamic but you have to challenge existing structures.

There is an excellent think ahead document you can use for your parents to plan. If there is a social worker in the hospital you could ask them to facilitate a meeting with you and your parents around their care needs to ensure everyones views are heard. Or you could be direct and firm

'Mum we need to talk about your expectations of me when you come home. I love you and Dad dearly and I want to support you both, but I also want to build my own life, meet someone, travel and have my own interests. I cannot provide all of the care you need. . You have assets to pay for a live in carer or some home care or someone to help with meal prep etc and you need to have a chat with Dad about that. I want you to use your assets throughout your life for whatever care and support you might need. "

Highlight other older people who they know who use similar supports to live at home.

At the root of all this is your difficulty in expressing your needs. Go see a counsellor and work through this. I have seen many, many, people in your position who have managed to find solutions -- but thinking of their current assets as your fixed inheritance has to go, inheritance is what is left over after your parents lives have been lived!

Skibunny77 · 11-03-2023 7:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120318901#Comment_120318901

Just to say nobody in the hospital can or will force an adult to accept home care or home help. The Assisted Decision Making Capacity Law is coming into effect in April and the days of coercing older people to accept nursing home or home help are thankfully ending. Older people are entitled to make unwise decisions and live with an element of risk in their lives just like the rest of us. Including people with early onset dementia. That is the law.

So no, you can't pretend a home carer is there for you OP or coerce them into accepting help. You can simply advise them of public and private support options and then make your own choices while leaving them to make their own.

Sardonicat · 11-03-2023 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120343698#Comment_120343698

No one here said the hospital can force anything on anyone OPs mother has had a fall and has a dementia diagnosis. This WILL be taken into account when her discharge date is coming up, ie, is the layout of the house safe or does it need some modification against falls, does she need assistance bathing,cooking, etc, yet?

If OPs mother has sound decision making abilities still, than SHE needs to make that decision- she can't force OP or her husband to be her carer either. . If OP says they won't take on the role without HH assistance and his mother is assessed as needing that assistance than she can be choosing how things go.i know what I'd be choosing. It won't be long before the wheels fall off that bus and decision time will come round again. How dsgusting to think that people who can't make safe, rational decisions for their future care will soon be put solely in that decision making role. More elder abuse from the HSE and abuse on carers all presented as a human rights issue but clearly a cost effectiveness excercise.

Throwaway505 · 11-03-2023 12:46pm

Hi folks, as a general thing thanks for all the advice, I'm going to reply piecemeal to everyone, but first a quick update.

Update: My mum came home from hospital yesterday, so the past few days have been a whirlwind of getting a bed ordered for downstairs, temporarily moving another bed downstairs, assembling HSE provided equipment and trips to stores to collect further equipment like wheelchairs. I'm exhausted. She had spent as much time in hospital as they feel she needed and will recover quicker at home - she was miserable with the noise and bustle of the hospital, wasn't eating the (apparently unsettling) hospital food and couldn't bear the other four people in the ward. They did have a phonecall about the house and how suitable it is (it was fine once we physically lifted her in a wheelchair up the 3 or 4 steps - the entire downstairs is flat). But nothing other than that - any home inspection has at least a six week waiting list. As far as the hospital is concerned, its just exercise and pain meds she needs. A comprehensive home care package can just be forgotten about in the short term due to resourcing.

My dad (76 remember with the tail end of shingles) put a herculean effort into getting the place ready for her but he is now absolutely exhausted beyond words. He is doing all the housework and all the bedding/clothing/wheelchairing/pill-organising help - I am helping out as I can (but desperately trying to set up barriers) but I think he'll struggle quickly. I'm already filling in bits and getting caught with things just so he can sit down for a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, I will help out with the housework, of course I will as I live here, but I do need that barrier between "helping out" and "getting stuck caring". I am being dragged into things already and as much as I love my mother the words she used about helping out really did grate as they were out of the manipulation textbook "You can just do this one little thing for Your Mother".

Anyway, hopefully it'll only be a month or so before she is back on her feet fully anyway. From what we've heard, HSE community help has a waiting list of many months but the community can come around and put railings etc up. He doesn't want this and is resisting, because he feels they won't put them in right and will snoop around the house. Which means he wants to do it himself, which means I'll have no choice but to help him because he can't cope himself even though he'll say he can. More of my weekends gone as I am not taking time off work to deal with this. I can't anyway, remember I'm in healthcare and its brutal at the moment.

He survived ok on his own for the period when she was in, but he was obviously delighted to see me and we ended up talking for a good hour once I got in from work every night. That was fine, although it did mean I got absolutely NOTHING done on work evenings. My own hobbies and administration slipped further.

As I said I'll go through replies piecemeal but just to give a quick update for now.

One thing I will address is the inheritance query - it isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned! I'm an only child so the house and savings will come to me anyway. Savings will cover Fair Deal if needed. This has been discussed between me and the folks already. The reason I bring it up is that if I live in the house for the three years before they die and the seven years after they die I don't pay inheritance tax on the house. Thesedays, with rent as it is, its got to be taken into account for sanity reasons. It's hard to stomach spending thousands on rent (regardless of freedoms) and then to have to pay inheritance tax on their property when I could alternatively pay them a peppercorn rent and pay for a few bits here and there, and then not pay inheritance tax on the property. It just doesn't make prudent financial sense and could make the difference between being able to retire very early and not. Things like this have to be thought of and understand that this has been discussed with them and isn't a cash grab on my behalf - I could survive perfectly well either way money-wise. But it is being thought about, at the very least.

11-03-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120344759#Comment_120344759

Early retirement is very nice… I was kind of forced into it, but at same time happy to have accepted it.

11-03-2023 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120344041#Comment_120344041

Very good latter point, reminiscent of psychiatric care in the community for people suffering from poorly controlled psychosis.

airy fairy · 11-03-2023 1:06pm

I commend your getting stuck into it all. Many wouldn't.

But as you know, there's a fine line between helping and caring. For the moment, it seems, you will be living with them, and I would suggest keeping some situations at arm's length, lie if you have to.

Like the cleaning, yes, you can do it, but you need to suggest that you cannot do it due to extra work (you can slot in an activity here) and employ someone. It won't cost a lot, once or twice a week for 2 hours, hoover, wash toilets, sinks, shower, bath, change sheets, that kind of thing. By removing one thing so simple can be a step towards cutting the cord that has grown while you e lived at home. Of course there'll be moaning and bitching, but ignore, ignore.

You will, over time, have to loosen their dependence on you, and if it means stretching the truth for them, do. You will feel guilty, but for sanity and reducing the build up of resentment, you need to do it.

I've been in a similar situation to you, although parents didn't get to live to very elder years. There were days I just sat in the car a few Kms from their house and told them I was doing X. Guilty? Of course, but it did save the resentment.

Princess Calla · 11-03-2023 1:07pm

I have to be honest, I felt a lot of sympathy for you as facing the role of a carer is not something most of us want.

The extra stress, responsibility etc is not for the faint hearted.

However any sympathy I had for you , you lost on your update.

Your focus seems to have shifted to retiring early on the back of your parents hard work and savings, without putting in any extra work yourself.

I'd love for your parents to see this thread and for them to book a holiday to Vegas and blow the lot!

sporina · 11-03-2023 11:03pm

wow - are you on the spectrum OP? your posts seem so cold.. sorry if this is offensive - hope I don't get a ban.. just being honest..

if you don't wanna help out - why don't you move out?!

Skibunny77 · 12-03-2023 9:22am

Forcing care on someone who have the capacity to refuse it will be illegal under the new legislation. That isn't disgusting, it has come from years of listening to older people with dementia telling Govt they want to have choices and to live with risk. Safety is simply being physically safe, it is feeling like being an adult.

Thankfully we now have people with dementia continuing to speak up, to work, to volunteer and to show how a diagnosis doesn't mean they turn into a child overnight. I know people who would rather live a shorter life in their own home than a longer 'safer' life in a nursing home. OPs mother has the right to make unwise choices, she doesn't even have to consent to an assessment of her home/care needs while in hospital..

12-03-2023 9:35am

My parents had me back in 1961 when my mother was 41 and my Dad 39. It meant they were in their final decade when I was 40. I felt a little bit young to be in a situation of parents being in final years. But it is not at all uncommon, and indeed becoming increasingly so and will be ever more so in coming decades. There will be a helluva lot of 30-40 somethings in this position, and it’s not a great time of life, mid career, to be in that compromise. I can understand OP, though it may come across as self-centred and maybe it is. But he is explaining his inner mind here, not directly how he interacts with his parents.

airy fairy · 12-03-2023 9:48am

I think there have been a few unfair comments made about the op.

Expressing ones own plans, dreams and wishes for the future doesn't mean he doesn't care or love his folks. A person who is trying to make their own way in life and being pulled back by aging parents and expressing themselves doesn't mean he wishes them harm or rushing them to the grave. It's all borne from frustration I suspect.

Anyone that is a parent here, if they're honest with themselves, eye rolls and momentarily wishes for peace when their kids are young and jumping in the bed at 5am. It doesn't mean that eyeroll means them harm.

Letting parents age, fending for themselves just to even have a night out yourself doesn't mean you don't care. It's hard to let go. It's hard to have a clear conscience.

Throwaway505 · 24-03-2023 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348234#Comment_120348234

The second paragraph here sums it up nicely for me I think!

Update for those interested:

She's miserable. Still in pain, slowly coming off Oxynorm which is having its effects and they want her to come off that further. Sleeping loads. She is getting better, no doubt about that, but still having a struggle. She's a dreadful patient to be honest, very entitled and selfish in ways.
She is getting ever more militant regarding nursing homes. My dad is struggling with her care, he's 75 and since she has some tummy issues (long standing) there are very many trips to the bathroom (extendable seat on, wheelchair to bathroom, transfer to toilet and the whole thing in reverse). Or the equivalent on the commode. He's absolutely exhausted and I'm desperately trying not to be dragged in too much. Nursing help is nonexistant - she's out of hospital two weeks now and the doctor had lost the referral so not a peep out of the public health nurses - they refused to help without that referral. They finally got it two days ago and not a single world from them since. If he wasn't capable of caring for her I don't know where we'd be.
He needs to go onto the roof to fix a leak (yes you read that right). He won't get anyone in and won't let me do it. He'll be fine and its not a major thing, I'll be there too, but the whole thing was met with howls of anguish from HER as to what would happen if he fell. She'd end up in a home and she was visibly getting upset at the thought of it.
She told me yesterday the following: Emphasis hers. "I'm DREADING him going to the public health nurse and him saying he can't cope and that I'd need to go into a convalescent home... I just COULDN'T deal with that NIGHTMARE again". All the while with her head in her hands. We're going to have awful trouble with her. Obviously we can't force her into a home, but if something happened to him I just couldn't care for her there would be an unmerciful fight.
It turns out that we WOULD have been able to give her a convalescent home for a week or two on coming out of hospital under the health insurance but no-one told us. The hospital just helped her to our car - no care plan and no mention of this. Of course, once she's home, she is not entitled to it anymore, it's ridiculous.

So theres my rant and woe for the day over with. On the upside I did have quite a good first date yesterday but reality is already dawning that it won't work - I'll just be dragged back again and again to the house and my mind just won't be in the right place at all. I couldn't, with this and work, give her the time she deserves so I'll likely have to back off.

SAMTALK · 27-03-2023 9:24am

Hi OP

I get where you're coming from and there are some nasty comments on here about money / care etc

My mother is much the same as yours and it's so frustrating. They expect everything to come to a standstill no matter how many times we have told her that we have work/ homes/kids to look after and can only do so much, but she has refused all help from HSE that was put in place for her

It's all very well people saying get over yourself, they are your parents etc but when living with it the reality is very different

They refuse to meet you half way and all this does is build up resentment from their selfishness and from being tired and stressed all the time

I dont care about money / house etc, all i want is for her to accept that not alone does she need help but we do as well !

TheadoreT · 27-03-2023 10:52am

OP I think you could do with a bit of therapy to deal with that negative internal monologue you got going on there. You're so pessimistic about the prospects with that date. That type of mind frame manifests itself into things you say and you'll turn her off fast, not because of your family situation, but because of the woe is me attitude you're putting out to the world. But I'm sure your self fulfilling profecy will blame your parents because its easier that way isn't it!?

With regards your parents it's sounds like they're both in a bit of denial about the realities of ageing and relinquishing any sort of control. You need to assert some boundaries fast with them. As said before you've the funds to give you options here.

Neither your dating or parents situation is as hopeless as you're making out, so it's up to you if you want to continue using it as a convenient excuse or make positive changes in your life.

/tough love

Throwaway505 · 28-03-2023 3:14pm

Thanks folks - I do read every comment and think it all through, good to see that I'm not the only one in this situation. Tough love does help, and maybe some therapy would help but I'll have to keep that secret as they don't believe in mental health challenges being of the post-war generation.

Todays rant:

My dad planned to go out to get some stuff to fix a leaky pipe on my day off. Thats fine - but my mum had more bile acid diarrhea after lunch. She did have the gall bladder out years ago and whatever meds she is on are causing trouble now. I suggested options which I know myself and suggested they ring the pharmacy about it but I can't seem to get them to actually do that. So he can't go - he'll go tomorrow instead but that will now restrict my day off tomorrow most likely.
She half jokingly said to me this morning that she was bitterly disappointed in me for not getting more involved in her care. It was half jokingly said for sure - but I'm sure there was a grain of truth in it too. She believes family members should drop everything for caring.
She said later on that she hasn't received a single bit of sympathy or love since she came home from hospital - she just sees us both as helping her out because we have to. Under normal circumstances one would defend onesself, but I know that will just result in a verbal onslaught and an argument between the three of us.
Public health nurses received the referral six days ago. My mum has already said she'll probably send them away because they didn't help her at the start when she "actually needed it". Hmm.

I am doing my best to be aware of my own self fulfilling prophecy and doom spiralling. But its hard. When circumstances are trying to force your life to revolve around someone very ungrateful and difficult, you just feel like you can't take anything else on. When you're away from the situation you just want to be left alone for some peace and quiet.

Princess Calla · 28-03-2023 3:28pm

I think the best option you can do for yourself is move out.

You moved back home as an adult as it suited you. The situation no longer meets your needs.

Your parents will muddle along together. If they have to reach out and get additional support they will. Especially once they realise you're not available.

Bringing your dad to a hardware store, helping your mum out with stomach pains (admittedly not what anyone wants to be doing) are very small things in the scheme of things.

As they get older and health declines further , there will be bigger things. This situation is not viable for you.

Mollyb60 · 29-03-2023 10:39am

I empathise with you OP. My husband and I helped his mother to care for his ailing father in the run up to his death last year. We spent almost 5 months visiting every second day to help with the bedtime routine and it was exhausting. Social life had to stop, we were both mentally and emotionally exhausted. It must be much more difficult for you. At the moment my mother (who is in her 60's) is the full time carer for her 90 year old mother. She is 100% dependant on my mother for everything and can be quite moody and demanding. I see how it is affecting my mother (physically, mentally, emotionally) but like your mother, my grandmother absolutely refuses to go into a care home or accept any home help. It's a very frustrating situation but there's at least some helping out from my sister and aunts who live closer than I do.

I think it's good for you to come here and vent a bit. It allows you to get the frustration out in some way rather than letting it fester. The emotional manipulation by your mother is unfair. You need to find some way to be able to deal with this. Unfortunately when it comes to stubborn parents sometimes it needs to get worse before they can realise how unsustainable a situation is. It sounds cruel but could you go away for a few days to allow them to fully recognise the reality of their situation?

sporina · 29-03-2023 9:15pm

personally I think that if you live with your parents, you should help them - and if you don't wanna - then move out..

Flinty997 · 29-03-2023 9:42pm

You can't be a full time carer, cleaner and work full time and pay the bills. Never mind do it for years at a time.

Get carers in, and a cleaner. Lighten the load.

AnnieinDundrum · 29-03-2023 9:57pm

My parents resisted the “home instead” carers. Every single one of them was flawed… couldn’t do anything right…. Cleaning, cooking, bed making…

luckily there’s 3 of us to help. But all with full time jobs we need to maintain.

banging our heads against a stone wall for a year.

eventually I cracked and told them both to STFU with the moaning and complaining and sending carers away. I was at breaking point and my siblings too. Mum copped on and started paying attention to the positives. one carer was a lousy cook but great at the ironing and cleaning,,, grand that’s Tuesday sorted… and it continues, every week there’s a minor issue but they are minor and thankfully my parents see that minor housework issues are only minor.

talk to your parents. Tell them the pressure you are under.

talk to the GP, get carers lined up.. mum was bragging on the GP that her kids would quit work and look after them. I told the GP we couldn’t and help was organised. Only an hour a day but it helps.

Throwaway505 · 03-04-2023 8:53pm

Well, in the spirit of doing what MollyB60 suggested, I'm going to use this thread as a bit of a rant-station from now on.

But first, the good news.

She is improving. Without a doubt. The walking (with zimmer frame) is getting easier, she is off most of her painkillers (after a bad reaction to Tramadol, as a replacement for Oxynorm) but she still does have a long way to go to walk unaided. She still needs a lot of help and care and requires someone to be not too far away from her at all times. My dad can only go out to do the shopping, after putting her to bed first.

The bad news.

After three weeks, the local public health nurse finally rang. Now my mum was very nice about it, but did say to them that we could have done with the help when we needed it, which was three weeks ago when she got home first. The nurse agreed of course (what else can she say), but that is the system at the moment. The nurse asked if we wanted a visit just to see if everything was ok and whether we were managing ok. Of course, as with all old people, my mum said no, we didn't need any help at the moment. But that we would ring if we needed it. The nurse said "of course, anytime".... telling us to ring the phone number that is only manned from 9am to 10am on weekday mornings. Jesus wept.

I was about to start telling her why I thought it was a bad idea, but she beat me to it, saying that my dad had already told her off. But that didn't mean she did anything about it after. We're dealing with someone here who expects family to do 100% of the work and doesn't want anyone else to help her out.

So the whole "reject any form of help offered" has started. Basically my mother has decided to volunteer both me and my dad for extra work without even consulting us. The nurses could have done a few bits here and there, but oh no, me and my dad will be PERFECTLY HAPPY to do that without getting asked. Why she couldn't even have the nurse out once, I don't know, but I'm not annoyed, just jaded. There was never going to be a differerent outcome to that conversation after all.

Anyway, she is getting better, thats the main thing.

Princess Calla · 03-04-2023 11:28pm

When you moved back home initially what were the dynamics like?

Did you move back into a house share type arrangement where you looked after yourself (groceries, cooking, cleaning laundry etc) and they looked after themselves, then a rosta for communal spaces like bathroom, hoovering, cutting grass washing windows etc.

Or was it more traditional parent and child relationship , where they did the groceries your name went into the pot and you came home to cooked dinner. Majority of chores were looked after by them , laundry, hoovering cleaning etc.

If it was the later I can see why she is refusing help. She had probably done the lionsshare of household duties all her life. Now it's time for a little bit of payback. It's not forever you said yourself she's getting better. You are living in the house, these aren't household chores on top of your own household chores. You'd be doing the majority for yourself anyway if you lived alone.

A nurse would only be looking after your mum's personal care. If your mum doesn't want a stranger doing that for her, you have to respect her wishes. Guaranteed if roles were reversed she'd be looking after you and your dad in a heartbeat.

Sardonicat · 04-04-2023 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348172#Comment_120348172

She doesn't t hsve the right to force her family to become her carers, either. What happens if her husband becomes unable to care for her and her son decides, which he is entitled to do, that he doesn't feel able to give up his work to provide her care? Will she be enjoying the right to not be able to use the toilet or have a wash? How marvellous. And no extra cost to the HSE.

airy fairy · 04-04-2023 8:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120437277#Comment_120437277

Ring the phn on that number you have, leave a message. Tell them that indeed your mother needs at least a regular check on her personal hygiene and mental wellness. I would be telling both your parents that this is needed as you are not comfortable with refusing help.

Your mother may be on the mend, but she is still elderly. Of course she's going to refuse help, they all do, it's pride and a refusal to acknowledge aging.

Furze99 · 04-04-2023 8:49am

I think OP that as much as you have shown great care & understanding towards your mother, that as her condition progresses that nursing home care for her will become inevitable.

Deeec · 04-04-2023 9:01am

Its a hard situation OP. You do however need help.

Both my parents and parents in law are elderly and needed help over the last few years. It drives me mad that the public health nurse and home care services etc just seem to want to listen to the elderly people who very often doesnt give correct version of what is happening. They always refuse the help offered and say they dont need anything. The views or struggles of the elderly persons family are ignored - we are usually not even consulted. It seems to suit the authorities though as long as the person themselves say they are ok the phn and services just turn a blind eye - it makes it easier for them.

This is what is happening in your case - they are just talking to your mum and she is saying all is fine. You need to get more vocal. Get onto the PHN and explain your situation - you have to get it across that there is only you and you are also trying to work full time. You have to really push hard for help as you are going to need it more and more.

Terrier2023 · 04-04-2023 9:26am

Do something selfless care for your parents you will get good karma for that the world is not so exciting read the papers you are blessed a professional job money in the bank a house to inherit focus on the positives and remember you got your professional status on the back of their toil. Take an interest in the house after all it will be yours do the garden paint it do it up show an interest you will be getting a free house a 100k people would die for that blessing.

Deeec · 04-04-2023 9:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120438393#Comment_120438393

The OP is already doing alot for his parents and seems to be doing his best- he simply cant give them all the care they need though at the moment. He is working and has no other family to share the load. I know the point you are trying to make but finding time to do painting etc while caring for 2 elderly people is not really feasible.

Terrier2023 · 04-04-2023 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120438444#Comment_120438444

He has the proceeds from a house sale in the bank they get their pensions every week he can engage a private carer if he wants he has a good salary & no out lays for kids wives or mortgages or college fees. He is very well off and just feeling sorry for himself at being alone in this situation. Women / daughters always did these jobs without a word when a man has to do it its a big deal why is he single ? let him get a girlfriend / wife and she can help you . But to be honest a paid carer is the best idea as they are paid and have no resentment for doing their job, carers are very often lovely people.

SAMTALK · 04-04-2023 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120437740#Comment_120437740

It's irrelevant saying if roles were reversed she'd be looking after you and your dad in fairness

The OP is also trying to hold down a job.

It's very hard to deal with a parent who refuses all help offered and thinks family can drop everything to look after them.

times have changed and most houses have 2 people going out to work unlike years ago when a lot of women would be stay at home mothers

Princess Calla · 04-04-2023 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120438810#Comment_120438810

The OP is working a 4 day week. So it's a lot more manageable, he has 3 days off.

His parents let him move back home when it suited him.

This is the drawback of living with elderly parents, their health is only going to go one way.

Personally I don't think bringing a parent to a hardware shop a big deal, the op does as it ate into his day off.

The OP also doesn't like the fact that conversation with his parents is slowing down as their minds are no longer as sharp as they once were.

His mam has had a health episode and currently needs extra care. However she seems to be moving in the right direction and getting better.

Every update the op posts it reads like his parents are a massive inconvenience.

I've elderly parents myself and I get the fact that they can be incredibly awkward.

The OP admits he doesn't want to be a carer...which is fine I wouldn't want to be one either. However as long as he's living under the same roof as them it's going to be expected that he helps out. The parents could easily live another 10-20 years with various different ailments. The OP needs to figure out how to manage this.

Parental care - I just don't want to do it

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