Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

Trouwe Ier · 26-01-2023 8:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120154184#Comment_120154184

I am confused and somewhat dismayed about this:

a) Confused because I understood that of the 120 EWs (many of which have already been manufactured), 100 were for Dublin and 20 for Limerick. There had been no mention whatsoever of any proposal to deploy EWs in Galway, which in any event, has 41 PADs, all of which are less than 2 years old.

b) Dismayed to hear Stephen Kent (BÉ CEO) say that "electric buses" were coming to Limerick "by the end of this year" when it was my understanding from previous publicity that they were due to enter service in early 2023 AND that a few vehicles were to be provided for training as soon as last summer (2022). There is no visible evidence of any progress on "civils" at Roxboro and that is, quite obviously, the reason for the delay but planning permission had been granted a few years back and I would have thought that while these are significant works, they are not not HUGE works so I wonder did they tender in time. It took about three months to do the works at Athlone.

AX636 · 26-01-2023 4:17pm

A little update for electric buses, this is for Summerhill only tho!

p_haugh · 26-01-2023 4:33pm

Has the charging infastructure been installed yet? Or is the plan to get it done in time for delivery in April?

AX636 · 26-01-2023 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161129#Comment_120161129

No, still building sub station at the minute,

bk · 26-01-2023 4:57pm

Building the substation and upgrading cables too it if necessary is usually what takes most of the time to install charging points. Installing the actual charging points themselves is usually relatively fast.

bk · 26-01-2023 9:01pm

BTW Does anyone know what is happening with the N2 route?

Will it be launched at the same time as the O route? Launched before summer?

Also will the N2 use electric buses too and single or double deckers?

CatInABox · 26-01-2023 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162330#Comment_120162330

Not sure on the first three, but on the last one, as far as I know, there's no need for anything unusual for the N2, so it'll almost certainly be double decker buses. The O is only single decker because of that low bridge on the southside, otherwise it'd be double deckers too.

LXFlyer · 26-01-2023 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162330#Comment_120162330

Everything is entirely dependent on there being sufficient drivers available. Both those routes will require brand new staff so I'm not holding my breath.

p_haugh · 26-01-2023 9:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162437#Comment_120162437

Would the single deckers be able to fit through the Cabra gate (for the potential N2 routing via Phoenix Park)? Or is it the case that the gate isnt accessible at all for buses?

bk · 26-01-2023 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162437#Comment_120162437

Yes, I originally assumed that it would be regular double deckers, but then I started wondering given that at least originally the N2 was supposed to be launched at the same time as the O route. I was wondering if there was a reason for that, why launch it with the O, rather then when the N4 and N6 launched?

Just seemed strange, I was wondering if maybe they plan in using the new electric Wright double deckers on it. Shorter circular route that doesn’t venture far from the depot might be a good route to test out the new electric deckers on. Also lack of pollution when running through more residential areas.

mikeybhoy · 27-01-2023 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162693#Comment_120162693

These electric buses are not on trial they have been ordered the NTA so Tey should be able to handle any route don't you think?

bk · 28-01-2023 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167047#Comment_120167047

Perhaps "trial" is the wrong word, more of a case of helping to become familiar with a brand new vehicle and a different operating model. An opportunity to work out any kinks that might be discovered during rollout. Better to roll them out on a very short route, that runs close to 4 depots along the route, then for instance just tossing them on any long route and potentially suffer embarrassing break downs far from a depot.

I can't speak for bus operation, but as a software engineer, this approach is the norm in IT. Even when you launch into production, you normally first do a limited rollout, to a smaller number of early access customers, just to see how it is working in the real world and make any tweaks before going into full wide access. See Googles early launch of Gmail, which was extremely limited to invite only customers for the first few months.

You can do all the testing and trials you want, but often real world operations turn up unexpected challenges.

I don't know if this is needed or not, but to my engineering mind, it would be prudent to be cautious with the rollout of any new vehicle, never mind one so radically different.

BTW I'd also wouldn't necessarily say that these EV deckers can run just any route. The very long routes to the likes of Balbrigan and Skerries might be to long for their battery range (all day running).

john boye · 28-01-2023 4:06pm

Not sure what you mean by embarrassing breakdowns? New buses practically always break down.

mikeybhoy · 28-01-2023 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169802#Comment_120169802

Exactly what I can't understand why the NTA put in an order for 600 electric buses without trialing them first. Testing out different models and the like kind of like what they for the hybrids with the WH, VH and AH.

bk · 28-01-2023 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120169858#Comment_120169858

Sure, but no one cares when a new Diesel bus breaks down, but a shiny new Electric bus, that will generate all sorts of click bait articles with the media and outrage on Joe Duffy!

Best to be avoided or at least reduced if they can.

john boye · 28-01-2023 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120170990#Comment_120170990

I know what you're saying about the pr element to an extent but you've sort of said it yourself, it's completely new technology. They will break down unfortunately and will probably continue to for a good while after they enter service, it can't just be avoided by putting them on a short route for a while.

dublinman1990 · 29-01-2023 1:49am

I do agree why you do need to test the waters in how these new electric buses are going to work in the real world when they get into passenger service.

Installing a software update in the buses is a great way in being an effective deterrent in the allowing the operators to either find out about & resolve any potential problems like breakdowns early on when they begin their entry into their route networks.

When you think about it; these new electric single deckers are going to be put out on their clockwise/anti-clockwise route which will ultimately see them out for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for most days of the year.

The O route will be constantly linking up with every spine that will be built into the new bus network in the GDA by picking up and dropping off passengers when the spines get rolled out over the next years.

That's really going to be daunting challenge for them if they go out into the real world with unresolved issues while operating within a real world setting on the streets of Dublin.

That is why the O route in Dublin is a hugely important route to not to mess these issues up when they go out into service. If the drivers with all of their passengers are noticing these issues early on while these buses to out in service in an untested environment. That would be a huge fail for the NTA and Dublin Bus to resolve in the interim.

Could you imagine the number of complaints that could come from these people about these unresolved issues in the short term?

They could initially overwhelm the ability of Dublin Bus to actually run a proper and sustainable bus service for the people of Dublin. And we all know that is not what we want to see taking place on a frequent basis.

We all want to see both the O route and the new electric buses to become a success for the people of Dublin. That is the main reason why we are seeing them go out on route training in Athlone for the past few weeks.

The testing is there for a reason. It is there to not make fools of ourselves if things do potentially go wrong. If the software updates for the buses are to prevent these issues in the interim. That is when being prudent comes to you as a huge advantage.

p_haugh · 29-01-2023 10:46am

The EAs in Athlone began their time in revenue-earning service this morning!

Link to The Wanderer's Photo's Facebook post with more photos below (won't let me embed the link unfortunately):

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0eP8YfeG5q8EpA4LBHdzWpK297AQHwhU1nVViCedp791sdJSE5X9z12LRyT9YBhUUl&id=565096723527308&sfnsn=mo

dublinman1990 · 29-01-2023 10:17pm

There are more new photos of the new EA's earning service rollout in Athlone today from The Wanderers photo site on Smugmug.

https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/Officialevents/2023/Electric-bus-service-in-Athlone/

The pictures of the buses look great. Fair play to them. It appears like they will become a very popular sight in Athlone over the coming months.

p_haugh · 31-01-2023 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120175131#Comment_120175131

Are the destination displays on the EAs different to those found on the PAs? From the pictures here, the displays seem a fair bit more dense and clearer to see, especially the side and rear displays.

dublinman1990 · 04-02-2023 8:52pm

The Microsoft Connector electric buses are up and running in Dublin. These are the Higer Steed buses. They do a route from Honey Park near Monkstown Farm. What is the other terminus for this route?

The video below is from YouTube. It suggests that the route passes Dún Laoghaire.

https://youtube.com/shorts/JxYxr9RIveE?feature=share

p_haugh · 07-02-2023 12:36am

Managed to do a day trip out to Athlone to give the EAs a try. Must say they're a nice bus!

I noticed that they also have USB chargers (8 sets of 2) for people standing as well now.

Some things to note, the in-bus displays have some interesting variants for stop names, and the "time to stop/terminus" indicator seemed to get out of sync easily if the bus was running behind time.

Also, it's difficult enough to track the buses in real-time. On both Google maps and TFI Realtime, buses were tracking poorly. The bus location doesn't appear yet either (is this a BE wide thing?). Sometimes it would be marked as delayed, then suddenly it would be marked as departed (even though it hadn't appeared at the stop yet). It did seem that the A2 bore the brunt of traffic and delays compared to the A1, which makes sense as it's a longer route.

Overall a good experience, will be interesting to see these operating within Dublin in the near future.

mikeybhoy · 07-02-2023 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202885#Comment_120202885

One of those doing the Holiday Inn shuttle at the airport atm very strange looking bus. Think it might be on a trial as it has TFI Local Link branding on it even though it's not a NTA affiliated service of any description.

dublinman1990 · 11-02-2023 7:17pm

From Dublin Commuter Coalition's Twitter account on 9th of February.

91 additional Electroliner Streetdecks ordered

10 additional single deck EA's from ADL ordered

Also the 24 PA's coming to NTA Fleet are going to Dublin Bus.

W4/W6 routes with GAI will be run with SG's.

DaBluBoi · 11-02-2023 7:22pm

Which garage do yall reckon the PAs are going to? Harristown?

dublinman1990 · 15-02-2023 2:42am

This is a good review on the Higer 12m electric bus. It is a pity that he didn't sound the bell on it.

https://youtu.be/k99uQJhAgQ8

dublinman1990 · 19-02-2023 3:48am

A Youtube blogger from NI has a video here showing the inside one of the Bus Eireann EW's at Wrights. Although there was 2 buses in the video. The 2nd bus at the very back was used as a demonstration in showing the rear, sides and lower deck of the bus.

https://youtu.be/kBOBAHZOyWE

The video doesn't have great picture quality however it was taken 3 weeks ago.

bk · 20-02-2023 11:12am

Looks nice, though, fancy London getting leather seats! :)

d51984 · 20-02-2023 9:27pm

Stagecoach in Scotland has taken delivery of 25 new 10.8m Volvo BZL Electric single deck buses, be interesting to see how these fare out and weather they will be of interest to the NTA in the future.

EVBusFan · 23-02-2023 5:30pm

Does anyone know have the larger version of this Table seen in the Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy that includes the regional cities on the timeline, I remember seeing it somewhere but cannot find the Document that contains it.

p_haugh · 27-02-2023 10:16pm

Just seen this on twitter, nice to see rural local link services get some investment!

https://twitter.com/Feljin_J/status/1630257124260339716?t=f1TTjvZUPgshF_P7FLUS7Q&s=19

p_haugh · 10-03-2023 3:52pm

Sneak peak at the EW and EA interiors for those allocated to Dublin Bus... They (aka the NTA) are finally getting with the times and will have proper internal Passenger Information displays!

https://twitter.com/Feljin_J/status/1634194726550216707?t=l_bXpWnAfRs3K0gfobnz6Q&s=19

d51984 · 10-03-2023 7:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341043#Comment_120341043

Looks well apart from one of the seats upstairs on the EW missing its yellow grab rail, little things like that annoy the f**k out of me.

d51984 · 10-03-2023 7:14pm

Spot the missing yellow on the top seat rail, its just a little thing but for a new bus its shabby.

d51984 · 10-03-2023 7:19pm

Now that screen does look well. Looks like bus is in Inichicore, bus geek in me is trying to identify the bus parked opposite. Its like a GT/VG but the front destination looks strange.

john boye · 10-03-2023 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341960#Comment_120341960

The display has been removed

dublinman1990 · 10-03-2023 8:17pm

Is the bus without the scrolls an ex London Gemini?

AX636 · 10-03-2023 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342185#Comment_120342185

That looks like the go-ahead trainer that got painted in tfi colours

d51984 · 10-03-2023 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342552#Comment_120342552

Never knew this, so its in full TFI livery? It looks like an ex London destination display thats been removed, strange though that Go Ahead would repaint one of their training buses in to TFI livery though.

Someone please fix that seat, its annoying me 😂

d51984 · 10-03-2023 9:54pm

https://flic.kr/p/2haaGKR

Could be this one thats been repainted? Sorry for drifting off topic.

d51984 · 10-03-2023 11:17pm

Confirmed thats its ex Go Ahead London. 03 reg. Now back on topic :)

AX636 · 10-03-2023 11:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342580#Comment_120342580

I seen it posted somewhere,but I can't find it anywhere for the life of me now

d51984 · 10-03-2023 11:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120343077#Comment_120343077

Dying to see a photo of it, very strange thats its been repainted in to TFI livery though.

devnull · 11-03-2023 10:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341043#Comment_120341043

Do they really need that huge bus stopping sign underneath the screen blocking the view? Why not do it the same as virtually ever other country with screens and simply just display a message saying it is stopping instead at the top in white writing and red background after the bell is pressed and make the bus look less ugly.

Seems very strange, just like when they started not deploying the modern red STOP signs on the SGs with bigger traditional Stopping signs. At times I think we are really behind the curve with stuff like this.

bk · 11-03-2023 6:15pm

I agree that the Bus Stopping sign is unnecessary and a bit ugly. Bus Eireann has neater screens IMO.

But delighted to see such big screens finally being introduced. I assume the extra width will allow for both English and Irish place names to be displayed at the same time without needing to flick between the two, which reduces usability. And allow to display the next few upcoming stops. which is a problem at the moment with how fast stops can be passed.

The screens look like they are pretty regular TV or PC Monitor widescreen LCD screens put in a rugged case :)

BTW As an aside, I like everything they are doing with the new buses in London. The high backed seats for improved safety, mobile phone holders on the back of seats, timber floors, bigger windows and the very cool glass roofs, I would love to see some or all of these features introduced in Ireland:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-60348230

mikeybhoy · 11-03-2023 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120346255#Comment_120346255

Seen pictures of those new buses in London. They don't have the normal handrails upstairs so I don't how they are an improvement for safety. Don't think high back seats are nessecary for an urban service.

bk · 11-03-2023 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120346796#Comment_120346796

They definitely have handrails:

There is a document floating around where they did testing with crash test dummies and the current design looks very poor in terms of safety. These new design seem to be a significant improvement for only a relatively small change in seat design.

Interesting to note, the new single deckers seem to have high backed seats, but not handles at all, so a worse design then the London Bus Design:

Here is the photos from the London Bus dummy crash test:

mikeybhoy · 11-03-2023 11:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120346860#Comment_120346860

I think some Translink buses in the North have seats similar to those seats used in London. Okay maybe there is a safety argument for them but I can't the nessecity for them on a city service given the relatively low speeds obviously they make most sense on a coach given the longer distances and higher speeds.

Yes they have handrails but not the full length handrails as seen on a standard bus. Proper full length handrails are more important on a city service given the amount of people who'd be moving up and down throughout the upper deck not an issue on a coach. Could create difficulty for less mobile passengers such as the elderly and plenty of elderly sit upstairs.

That TFI design isn't great and I'm not sure why their using high back seats on the single decker but regular seats on the double deckers seems strange. The other thing is high back seats could encourage ASB and the like as high back seats make it easier to hide vandalism, drug taking and general mischief from other passengers/the driver. The 8500 DARTs for example seem to have more issues than the 8100s for example.

john boye · 12-03-2023 10:47am

A glass roof upstairs on a bus can be torture on a hot day.

Citrus_8 · 12-03-2023 11:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348230#Comment_120348230

Not if there's an air con. But I agree that it wouldn't be the most environmentaly friendly way to regulate a temperature.

Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

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