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Gary Lineker, BBC and Freedom of Speech - **Read OP**

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ah yes, the notion that the public must have been manipulated when they believe something that you don't. A classic

    So continued describing of migrants as law breakers and spongers and so on by the Tories and other vermin like Farage hasn't been done for the craic? So Tories describing an invasion of immigrants, etc isnt designed to trigger a reaction?

    These boat boyos most certainly have arrived illegally,

    So if I hopped into a dinghy and sailed over to England, I'm arriving illegally? What makes it illegal to use a dinghy but not to ise Irish Ferries?

    Can you point to a law that makes it illegal to use a dinghy?

    what you are refering to is if there are extenuatiing circumstances which may allow for their illegal arrival.

    It is not illegal to arrive. It is illegal to stay without a visa, etc.

    Given the amount these bucks who are adjudged to have genuine cause for asylium I have no problem calling them what they are, illegal immigrants

    That doesn't make sense. You are saying that if they have a genuine cause then they are illegal immigrants?

    There is a concerted PR effort from the NGO sector and media to abolish the use of the term, despite its accuracy.

    It isn't accurate!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Lineker argued that he is not subject to the same level of control as BBC employees given his apparent freedom to express personal and political views on social media.

    The BBC confirmed in recent Yeats that his comments on Twitter were hisbiwn and nothing to do with them

    That avenue of defence is now gone, wouldnt be surprised if The Conservatives said enough is enough and we will hurt this guy where it hits him most.

    How is it gone?

    As for hurting him, he is on £1.3million with the BBC and now ITV have offered him three times that amount. That doesn't sound like he is at risk of getting hurt.

    BBC have made a mess of the issue but Lineker is marked now.

    He isn't marked!





  • Oh no Seth you don’t get it man, the bbc, man, they’re everywhere man.

    Garys finished man, he’s spoken out against big television his life is over man, they’ll have him wrapped in a carpet and buried in a landfill by dinner time Tuesday.

    Oh wait sorry it’s the bbc we’re talking about not the fcuking mafia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Since you asked, you must show a passport twice in Calais, once leaving France and once entering the UK. The British officer is posted on French soil.

    Taking a dinghy to sail to England from France most likely means circumventing these checks with intention.

    If arriving on a private sailboat, you have to visit the harbour master, as far as I know. This applies to all citizens, British or foreign and is certainly not 1930ies Germany.

    I doubt that that's what's on the mind of a migrant or a trafficker.

    It's not necessarily true to what Gary stated, but again, it's his right to free speech.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,319 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...happy days, maybe we can beat the American's, and make our system more than twice as expensive than most other developed counties!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Did... did someone say Linekar was "Marked" now? Sweet Jesus. Absolutely. Marked by ITV. Marked by Sky. Probably Marked by numerous US networks. Oh how will he survive.

    BEST CASE. Absolutely best case scenario for BBC is if they come back on bended knees, begging for him to come back. Otherwise he will simply go to the highest bidder that he agrees with. The VAST majority are behind him. If not his opinions, then his right to HAVE those opinions. Of course you are going to have the tinfoil/red hat brigade opposing him but leave them digest themselves in their own bile of hate. They will say that there is a HUGE silent majority who don't agree with Linekar but, heads up..... they will never ever ever ever be able to back up that claim that they are in this "silent majority" ever... EVER... in NO way that cannot be instantly refuted


    Ever



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    I meant marked in his legal case.

    I thought that was pretty obvious.

    He will have loads of tv offers no doubt, virtue signalling is all in fashion these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    If Gary releases a book in the run up to the Christmas rush would you be purchasing it?

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,546 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Not necessarily. Very few Jews were killed or imprisoned in Germany before the events of Kristallnacht in November 1938 - and the Nazis had been in power for nearly six years at the point.

    Comparing the language of 1933-38 and the rhetoric about migrants and refugees by the Tory Brexit regime and their many press pals is a perfectly valid issue to raise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Oh noes, we'll wind up like Amurikka rather than our dogshit public healthcare "system" that costs about 3-4k for every man woman and child in the country and is still only free to the welfare class?

    Euthanizing RTE and the HSE would go a long way to fixing this country for johnny taxpayer. Speed the day.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I'm the oppostite of woke. The opposite of politically correct. Yet I support freedom of speech so I'm supporting Lineker here. He didn't say anything really bad. What he said was quite bland actually.

    It's getting to the stage that nobody is allowed to have a different opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Can't find the post you were replying to (assuming it was a post) but Clarkson's case was a bit different: telling racially insensitive jokes will get you into trouble in a lot of places and is a bit different from expressing an opinion. He also punched someone which is definitely crossing a line.

    I'd agree with your post though on freedom: but broadcasters simply need to put up a 'viewpoints expressed by the individual are not nessecarily those of X brodcasting' and move on. We are (thankfully) beginning to get to the point where the public are starting to see the point of freedom of expression and side with the commentor and not the employer/broadcaster. Thus, cancelling and censoring is beginning to lose it's force: people have to think twice before the fire someone for a tweet because the public might not react as positively to their virtue signalling as they may have anticpated.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Oscar Madison




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    No. Probably not. Because my interest in football can be written on the back of a stamp... AFTER I write what I know about football.

    I have zero interest in football. Seriously... NONE. it bores me to tears. Millionaires kicking a ball and faking life-threatening injury for a few mins... any sport really. MAYBE i have a slight interest in rugby... MAYBE!

    So I have no interest in Gary Linekar as a footballer or pundit.... I know him more for his crisp ads than anything football related. I do not think I have ever watched a full episode.

    BUT I stand by my point that he should be entitled to his OPINION. Especially as he stated this OPINION, not as an official (or unofficial) spokesman for the BBC or MoTD but as Gary Linekar. An opinion, as a human being, that he is entitled to and entitled to express. Had he presented this as something like:"The official opinion of MoTD is..." then, absolutely, nail him for violating his BBC contract. But that is not what he did.

    He is 100% entitled to his OPINION. and others are 100% entitled to disagree with this OPINION. But, given the fact that BBC legally is not supposed to be swayed by political interference, I find it chilling that it seems they chose to pursue this path.

    THAT is what I find disturbing: That the famed BBC impartiality is being cast aside. It is nothing to do with the individual of Gary Linekar or even his opinions. But more to do with the creeping oppression of supposed independent organisations by government in the Western world. One only needs to look at Eastern Europe news shows to see how that goes. People are being arrested for disagreeing with the government. I know this not what is happening yet in the UK but...

    Thankfully this is not moderated by the BBC...



    So... as is usual with me (sorry): TLDR. No. I won't read his book



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I doubt any book he might release in the wake of this would be focused on football.

    Allow me to rephrase; were Gary Lineker to release a book about this situation and his socio political beliefs and not football, in time for the Christmas rush, would you purchase that?

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Would you look on any such endeavour in a negative light? Say a book, or a Netflix or amazon prime documentary cataloging Gary Linekers struggles?

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,615 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    All the talk about free speech and whether the language used is actually reminiscient of 1930s Germany or not seems to miss the point to me.

    He wasn't removed from the programme for bringing the BBC into disrepute, or for making inflammatory statements, or similar.

    He was removed from the programme for reasons of 'impartiality'. Now, on the face of it, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a state (and state-funded) broadcaster might have as a condition of their empyoyment that the employee (including whatever contractual relationship Lineker has with the BBC) cannot make comments that are biased towards/against a particular party. It doesn't even seem crazy that the condition might include what the employee might say in a private capacity on social media.

    For me, the real issue is why Lineker has been censured in this way, while many many others who have made statements/posts/etc that were clearly biased in favour of one party have not. And on that,I'd like to know the make up of the panel or committee or ad hoc group of people that decided Lineker should be censured, while the others didn't need to be. That panel should be the very definition of impartiality in its make up, but I wouldn't bet on it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Might be off-topic but I think it's an example of read the room while all this is going on. Delete if so.




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Can't even see how this could possible be concieved ON-topic....!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Would you look upon a similar show, book, animation, haiku, interpretive dance, mime show or similar about BBCs side in a positive or negative light.

    I have stated multiple times that my OPINION is not based on Gary linekar the footballer or pundit or personality. My OPINION is based on my thoughts on what (correctly or incorrectly) seems to be the impression that an state TV station (sponsored at least partially by people who support either side of the argument) SEEMS to have acted at the behest of the UK government rather than being impartial.

    I don't believe I am required to explain or justify my OPINION any further as my OPINION is JUST AS VALID as others.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is it really that big of a leap? You're smarter than that. A conservative govt led by Sunak is happy to put pressure on the BBC while he's building his own swimming pool.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    I fail so see the connection... unless you think both involve being in deep water...



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,365 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    If GL had said something like Fiona Bruce saying that 'Stanley Johnson only hit his wife once' (broke her nose) he wouldn't be reprimanded at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I'm only asking because you appear roughly aligned with Gary Lineker at some level at least and it is almost a guarantee that a UK celebrity embroiled in a news story such as this will be the subject of a docuseries, book or whatever it may be as a means of capitalising on the notoriety they received from said news story.

    What I was trying to get at was as a person aligned with Gary Lineker in this instance would you find such exploitation of this situation to be something that would change your opinion of him?

    You don't need to respond if you feel you've answered as much as you're willing to on this, I just felt that perhaps the reasoning behind the question I posed was not clear to you.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They could get ChatGPT to present.

    I asked it to write an intro:

    ”Hello and welcome to the incredible world of football! It's time to dive into the excitement of the game with the BBC's Match of the Day, the premier destination for all the latest news, highlights, and analysis from the world of football.

    At #MOTD, we've got everything you need to keep up with the English Premier League and beyond. Whether it's star-studded showdowns or shocking upsets, we've got you covered. And it's not just about the goals, we're also bringing you the latest gossip, news, and opinions from the world of football.

    Now, I know some of you may be wondering, "Is this an artificial intelligence?" Absolutely not! I'm just a passionate presenter who may not know much about football but is eager to learn and share with you all the excitement that this beautiful game has to offer. And just so you know, we are 100% politically neutral and support the government's policies on any and all topics.

    So, whether you're a dedicated football fan or just looking to catch up on the latest news, Match of the Day is the place to be. Make sure to join us every week and don't forget to use the hashtag #MOTD to join in on the conversation!”



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Double stands and hypocrisy on full display. The left are vociferously anti free speech on matters they disagree with. How easy it is to forget the shitstorm drummed up around Jeremy Clarkson. And for what? Punching upwards against Royalty.

    Listen here. He shouldn't be earning any money. Fire him from every job. Put him into reeducation camp


    You either believe in free speech -without caveats buts and howevers- or you don't. The left clearly do not. If they did JK Rowling would be left alone and not constantly harassed. Harassment is to put it lightly. Try death treats , doxxing and home visits. Everything associated with her must be cancelled. Nobody on the left ever stood up and defended her right to have an opinion.

    Linaker has been dolling out politically charged hot-takes on Twitter for years and the reaction has always been mild irritation. Nobody wanted him silenced or cancelled for his politically biased fish and chips / Walkers crisps ads.

    The moment he invoked Nazi Germany to strengthen his position is when it all blew up in his face. To reference that era in history , no matter how vague, is to liken half the country nazis. Thats crossing the line for someone who works for the state broadcaster. A quick history lesson will show it was a Troy government who were the first to wage war on Hitlers Ideology. Hundreds of thousands of young British men gave their lives to defeat Nazism. Likening supporters of a border control policy thats also employed by Australia and New Zealand to the bad guys of WW2 and getting backlash for it shouldn't be a shock to anybody.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Even if he personally put pressure on the BBC - which is something that hasn't even been suggested - then Sunak's personal choices are not relevant, and even if they were, building his own swimming pool is hardly a free speech issue.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    Where exactly in this tweet...

    "There is no huge influx. We take far fewer refugees than other major European countries.

    This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the '30s."

    ...did Lineker "liken half the country nazis"?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,546 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But it hasn't blown up in Lineker's face. He seems perfectly fine and relaxed and at ease with himself. All of the pressure at the moment is on the Tory Brexit regime, their numerous right wing press pals and the BBC itself.



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