The eviction ban

The Spider · 13-03-2023 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352911#Comment_120352911

😂Thanks Donald consider me told 👍

irishproduce · 13-03-2023 11:46pm

Being discussed on Katie Hannon now on rte1.

So far it's all tenants. Solidarity being passed around.

Rte really applying pressure the last few days

Bass Reeves · 14-03-2023 1:45am

Have watched it on RTE+1. Two tenant's given serious time one a PBP councillor and one member of the Socialist Party member. Connor Skehan given as a panel member given about 2-3 minutes compared time given to Eoin O Brion who was allowed to hog the program. Nessa Hourrigan given rakes of time as well. FF TD probably lasjd less time individually than either of them.

One LL allowed to speak twice and one property manager allowed to speak once.

LL has taken back her house and is not renting it at present. 2 bed in Dublin being let for 1050. A family member is moving into it.

When we often talk about RPZ's we forget that from 2014-2016 the government also had a rent freeze in place.

mrslancaster · 14-03-2023 2:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356032#Comment_120356032

Terrible situation for those tenants, the government have really messed up. Theres nothing to rent and the GP member looking for more changes to prevent landlords selling will probably scare another lot of landlords into leaving. How is that going to help?

They need to stop changing the rules every few weeks. If they just leave the current rules as they are, maybe extending the ban for another few months would give everyone some breathing space. More restrictions on landlords doesn't seem like the best option.

Pawwed Rig · 14-03-2023 7:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356069#Comment_120356069

Anyone who doesn't see what is coming will be badly burnt if they are a LL. The anti LL policies were the start. The reduction in rents of social tenants pushed through without consultation or warning.

The eviction ban then showed that the govt does not consider it your property (at least not exclusively).

What does the future and a SF govt hold? It won't be good for LLs anyway. Talk of having to sell houses with tenants in situe would severely impact their value. Lots of other anti LL rumblings from Leinster House.

As I said earlier in the thread I have great sympathy for people facing homelessness but am not willing to take on a disproportionate level of risk to solve the problem.

redlough · 14-03-2023 8:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356069#Comment_120356069

"every few weeks"? the eviction ban is in for years and has left many landlords stuck with ban tenants.

Extend for another few months will make no difference, if they do people will just wait and then once it is announced it is gone again the same reaction, hoping that it will be extended again.

The market is f**ked already and thats after years and years of changing rules so the tenants have all the power. Don't see that changing anytime soon.

Murph85 · 14-03-2023 8:49am

Maybe, just maybe, they should build more housing...

Murph85 · 14-03-2023 8:59am

It might make sense to offer incentives to ditch sites zoned for commercial and switched to residential, where the site is appropriate. Perhaps even freezing any new commercial developments, until residential, is under control...

Only 27000 homes expected to be completed this year... 6,000 less than targets and around half of what many " experts" believe is actually needed...

https://www.newstalk.com/news/nearly-27000-new-homes-set-to-be-delivered-this-year-bpfi-1446349?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1678778572-1

redlough · 14-03-2023 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356231#Comment_120356231

You can build a million houses and you will still have homeless, people will still sit on waiting lists and in hotels till they get the "forever" home in the exact location they want.

Over 10,000 houses still available for sale in Ireland today

Murph85 · 14-03-2023 10:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356290#Comment_120356290

I agree... but instead of dictating to people what they can do woth their homes , resulting in landlords fleeing the market and leaving homes empty. They would be better off getting their finger out and building more... they always want the easy option...

LongfordMB · 14-03-2023 10:32am

Any LL watching that Katie Hannon program last night will have got the fear of God put into them. Agitated young socialists and PBP people talking of "overholding" and Eoin o Broin tacitly endorsing it. Member of a governing party saying we should legislate to prevent LL selling their own asset! Jesus.

None of them intelligent enough to realise what they are saying is only making things worse for themselves.

redlough · 14-03-2023 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356434#Comment_120356434

But they are building more, what we don't need to do is build houses now that will end up getting knocked down in a few years like we had after the Celtic tiger. Like rezoning, if they have zoned for commercial then it was done for reasons, changing it now will mean long term are those houses sustainable?

I would prefer to see replanning to move towards apartments only in major cities. Dublin has enough houses and at this stage we should be building apartments. Especially with poor quality public transport spreading the city out more and more is not the answer.

We also need to change the laws to attract landlords back, or as agreed post the crash let large rental companies into the market, not have weekly press conferences from some political parties complaining about these companies.

Sunny Disposition · 14-03-2023 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356517#Comment_120356517

The lack of insight from the media is very disappointing, but I think it actually reflects the decline of the last 20 years, as less money has gone into the press due to the rise of online advertising.

It's not that complicated; measures such as an eviction ban and the RPZs have encouraged thousands of people to leave the rental market. That has resulted in fewer properties being available, which is obviously bad for potential tenants and wider society. So, wisely if belatedly, the government are removing the eviction ban.

But large sections of the media have opted not to cover that, going for more simple stories about people facing short term difficulty, rather than the reality that the eviction ban would inevitably do more harm than good if reinstated.

Tbf the Sunday Times editorial last weekend went through the issues quite well and explained why the right move has been made. But the likes of RTE allowing these jackasses to spout claims they themselves know are untrue or at best disingenuous, is a real shame.

Our media, political class and of course our housing market are all in terrible state and there are links between all three.

blanch152 · 14-03-2023 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120356032#Comment_120356032

Those TV programmes have become politicised. Neither of the tenants were credible.

Emblematic · 14-03-2023 2:14pm

I thought more could have been discussed about how we got into the situation where RPZs and late the no-fault deferment had to be introduced, and the fact that many TDs are landlords themselves, and therefore would have been unlikely to take action that would undermine their vested interest.

HerrKuehn · 14-03-2023 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357341#Comment_120357341

... and yet TDs have taken actions that undermine their supposed interests as landlords, reducing the amount of interest relief that can be claimed, increasing the amount of tax that needs to be paid, increasing required standards for rentals, etc, etc. That is before we even get to the issues around evicting tenants who don't pay etc.

How would you explain all that?

Emblematic · 14-03-2023 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357490#Comment_120357490

I would explain things like that as panic measures dealing with the consequences of years of prior inaction and mismanagement. Hence the need to offer some basic minimum standard of accommodation or putting some limits on rents that would other wise go through the roof. These measures should not have been necessary in the first place but it is Government's pandering to vested interests that brought things to the initial crisis and, unfortunately, made the measures necessary.

Bass Reeves · 14-03-2023 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357950#Comment_120357950

And the vested interest has mostly been on the left side of the political spectrum as one left wing party tries to outdo another in there rush to be seen as the protector of the renter.

Conor Skehan made a tell comment last night when the PBP counsiller started on encouraging over holding.

He said '' you are only making it harder on people looking to rent to find places in future'' or similar words to that effect.

They are encouraging small LL to sprint out the door and they have done nothing to encourage them to stay.

Sunny Disposition · 14-03-2023 4:06pm

The Government's attempts to limit rent rises has been a huge factor in their explosion.

The recession saw many people become accidental landlords, and very many of them wanted to get out of it. But that was exacerbated by foolish policies that intensified the scarcity of rentals. And the picture is still getting worse. And most landlords expect SF will do what it can to make things even more difficult, so the issue is likely to continue getting worse.

If the State had been less interventionist more people would have stayed in the market and there would have been small scale investors, meaning more money going into property meaning more houses being built. But the Government felt it had to be seen to do something, even if it was the wrong thing.

Emblematic · 14-03-2023 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358013#Comment_120358013

As I said in an earlier post, it is what happens when you pander to vested interests over a number of years without looking at the total picture. Things come to a head and measures need to be taken to protect those who haven't been pandered to. And of course the vested interests don't like it then.

Emblematic · 14-03-2023 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358034#Comment_120358034

Yes, we don't like theses things now but the point I was trying to make was that things were going wrong long before any sort of RPZ was introduced. However because particular aspects of the market, in this case the landlords, weren't themselves suffering (in fact quite the opposite, they never had it better) nothing was done to ease supply problems until things inevitably came to a head and protections had to be introduced. A different governement might have seen things coming and taken action but ours did not and we are left with the fiasco today.

Bass Reeves · 14-03-2023 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358036#Comment_120358036

What vested interest did government pander to.

monkeybutter · 14-03-2023 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331627#Comment_120331627

no for new entrants, no cap

Red Silurian · 14-03-2023 4:59pm

Isn't it amazing the difference between the legislation underpinning the eviction ban and that underpinning COVID-19 restrictions

Eviction ban - said it would last 6 months, 6 months later, gone, all in one go!

COVID Restrictions- Said it would last 2 weeks back in March 2020. Mask wearing was the last restriction removed almost 2 years later in March 2022 after 5* extensions to the legislation

*Open to correction on exact number of extensions but I think it was 4-6 months extension at a time and was extended for the last time in January 2022

tinsofpeas · 14-03-2023 5:33pm

It will be genuinely interesting to see what happens as a result.

On the one hand you could reasonably expect chaos, on the other hand this country has a remarkable knack of limping ever downwards.

All details aside, I think everyone can agree this situation, and country in general, is a dead man walking, it's a matter of when it keels over, not if.

Some people got wealthy out of it, most got hardship out of it, and a husk it's what's left that ALL have to live in.

Lots to be heard of "But the economy!". Let's put that in perspective for fear of being innured to what a crisis entails.

If it were reversed, imagine ireland as a country constantly pumping out one estate after another, apartment after apartment, year in, year out, year in, year out, until there's multiple homes per person at ridiculously low prices, zero demand.

All while there's a genuine economic crisis, year in, year out, year in, year out. Every year worse than the last.

Imagine someone pointing out "but look at all the useless homes we keep building, it's amazing!"

You'd rightfully tell such a gombeen to feck off. Right?

In other words, the "amazing economy" we supposedly have, when compared against actual needs, isn't worth a stale shaite.

blanch152 · 14-03-2023 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120351306#Comment_120351306

Well actually, the overall situation on the ground does change in the following situation.

Tenant isn't paying rent, refuses to move, landlord evicts and sells. House is bought by a young couple. So people who were not paying their way are replaced by people who are paying their way, and the moral hazard to society is reduced.

lawrencesummers · 14-03-2023 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120351306#Comment_120351306

No your right, because nobody has access to the information that can contradict you.

homeless numbers may increase, but others are going to be getting a home.

and all it does is continue to distract from the source and solution to the problem which is supply.

HerrKuehn · 14-03-2023 6:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357950#Comment_120357950

Of course it could also be due to the difficulty in achieving the required construction of houses. Particularly in the context of a devastated construction sector after the housing bubble burst, a rapidly growing population, the covid shutdown, inflation caused by the Ukraine war and enormous numbers of refugees arriving. Rather than say some sort of landlord led conspiracy for example, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

tinsofpeas · 14-03-2023 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358463#Comment_120358463

Maybe you could say you're taking a longer view of it then, as if the burgeoning inequality continues apace, then it all falls dead anyway.

A big race to emulate the United States, wealthy people living in gated communities afraid of their shadow or to set foot outside their rapidly shrinking safety all while poverty deepens for more and more.

Maybe south Africa is a better example.

At any rate, sustainable, it ain't.

The economy and the money means little, evidently, when all critical societal services are falling apart.

If money was the answer to these problems of housing and healthcare, we'd be flying. If a booming economy was improving society, we'd be laughing.

But they don't help, as contradictory as it seems, otherwise we wouldn't have these escalating problems year after year.

Worse than simply not helping, this apparent wealth and apparent economy are being used as excuses to ignore reality. "But look at all the money", yeah, so where is it going? What's improving? Where's the infrastructure? What's the plan? What's the vision?

It's all a bit emperors new clothes.

tinsofpeas · 14-03-2023 6:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120358589#Comment_120358589

I appreciate the optimism.

However it's long past time to see reality here. They are not going to fix the housing crisis. It isn't fixable.

I read recently that there were 120k immigrants into Ireland last year. Similar if not more for this year.

And the Government is struggling to build 30k?

You hardly need a mathematics degree to see that not only is the housing crisis not being fixed, it has every single factor pointing towards "worse than ever"

But hasn't the last 10 years been the same anyway, each year worse than the last?

Let's be serious, this is a conceptually broken system that is doing what it was invariably going to do; breaking.

You'd have infinitely better hopes of winning a national lottery than thinking this housing crisis is to be fixed.

The best that can be hoped for is a semi-controlled implosion. And even then I'd rather a lottery number.

The eviction ban

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