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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Bog standard Model 3 with zero extras? And how do you know they have sold for €42.5k to €44k?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭Killer K


    Two were different colours (one black interior and the other white interior). The one I am referring to for 44k was @eamondunphy's car who posted what he got for it on here. One was white with black interior 18 wheels as opposed to 19s and with higher kms than @Anishrt2020 car and that made 42.5.

    Got this directly from the owners as was chatting to them as was looking to pick up a 'reasonable' 222 M3. When sold, asked them what they got for it and have no reason to believe they would inflate what they got. Reasonable price to me would be 39-41k but that doesn't mean they aren't all making closer to 44k than we would have expected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @eamondunphy is the previous owner of my current car!

    His car had an option or two I think. And he got very strong money. I guess he did well and was perhaps lucky too. Most people in the market wouldn't offer anywhere near this and sellers are coming under a lot of pressure now with delivery date looming. People have told friends, family and colleagues about their shiny new car coming and they don't want to embarrass themselves not going ahead or let those people down, even if it meant accepting many thousands less for their own car than they had hoped. I see it all around already and it has barely started yet. Great time for buyers 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭Killer K


    But I have given you three examples including Eamon Dunphy's car which I said (if I remember correctly) is blue with white interior so yes has extras. Those extras don't translate into what they would have cost from Tesla. Wouldn't say he got lucky (or you would have to say all three of my examples got lucky), if you read his post he perservered.

    222 Model 3s are making 42-44k so no bargains there yet considering the cost of a brand new one.

    Things may change, but based on the evidence, asking 44k for a 222 M3 with larger wheels and with very low KMs is perfectly reasonable and the seller should probably expect to get somewhere between 42-44k. The only things I can see going slightly against him are the couple of scratches on the rims and the KE reg.



  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭smax71


    Valid points on both sides and as @unkel has said its basic supply and demand. I'd find it strange that someone willing to pay €42 to 44k for a used M3 would not instead order a new one. It's not as if there is a supply problem with M3s. Each to their own and no harm in asking. TBH I find it more strange that plenty of 2019/20 M3s are still being listed at mid to high €30s, with odd very optimistic guy listing into the €40s. I think some people are still clinging to the notion of zero or even positive EV depreciation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @smax71 - there's probably still zero or even negative depreciation at the very bottom of the market, the well sub €10k EVs. There simply isn't a lot of supply of them and this supply can never grow as it is no longer an option to import them (from the UK) for profit



  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭smax71


    It's also worth paying a bit extra for an EV as a runaround 2nd car at that price point due to the very low running costs and reliability compared to an ICE



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Aye, my point exactly. It seems very few people are aware of this. Once the general population finds out the benefits of EVs, they can see past cars with very limited range and will appreciate that these are ideal as second, local, cars. Demand will go up, supply is still very limited and can not go up. So price will increase. At least until we can get €11-12k brand new Chinese EVs on the road, which I expect to still be a good few years away. And even then, a €6-7k older Leaf or Fluence will be preferable and superior in the eyes of most people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭Killer K


    If reports this morning are correct that there will not be a second shipment of M3s before July, then things are looking even better for @Anishrt2020 today in getting close to his asking price.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Can't argue with that. Particularly if the grant is halved or worse



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,563 ✭✭✭eagerv


    unkel, while I agree with most things you post, there are many people like myself who prefer the shape, efficiency and handling/performance of the Model 3. Of course there are many who prefer the space and extra equipment of the Y. But I ain't one of them, perhaps when I get a bit older..😁. I probably would have bought a Y last year had the price been so similar as now, but I could well be bored with car now and possibly would not be here any more. Both are great cars, but to state one is far superior to the other simply is not true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Couldn't agree more. I prefer the Model 3 myself and the Performance is a wee gem. I like low, I like sporty suspension. I do not like SUVs or MPVs. When my 3 kids were young, all I had was large saloon cars with a boot. Not even a hatchback!

    Simple logic has it though that you have to pay a premium in total cost of ownership to own a Model 3 over a Model Y. Could turn out to be quite a big premium if you buy a Model 3 new or nearly new now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,563 ✭✭✭eagerv


    Even the standard Model 3 RWD is a gem, such good value compared to most similar or smaller "GTi" types.

    Sorry for thread drift, but remind me to tell you sometime (Not here😁) about an invite I got during week to a Tesla (Not as yet official) open day here in Phnom Penh..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Yes the early RWD cars had the rear drive motor from the Performance. I think it's one of the few Teslas I haven't driven yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭creedp


    Am interested in picking up a 2020 M3 and would love to get a LR for extra range with the extra power & 4wd being a most welcome bonus. However they are quite a bit more expensive at the moment so do people think the LR is worth a €5k+ premium?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The LR does have considerably more range than the same age SR+ as they have +50% of battery capacity. However, the range is probably not much more than the latest RWD model in real life and they are quite cheap now new. The performance is very much improved especially at higher speeds over the rear wheel drive cars, and the 2022-> the difference is even larger. Also the LR have the option of the acceleration boost for even better acceleration later on.

    I think the AWD is worth the extra, puts smile on my face every time I need to overtake somebody and the AWD grip when overtaking is nice on the wet too. That being said the SR+/RWD is plenty quick also coming from almost any other car.

    I feel like I don't ever want to change our LR as it just feels like a nice amount of power handled well, just right.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Yes is my personal opinion. But you’ll get other opinions from people that won’t.

    It’s a personal choice.

    I think the P is worth the extra over a LR too, which is why I bought one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭creedp


    Dont get me wrong Id love the P if I could afford it or if it was my main family car. Unfortunately I have to run a 7 seater as well for a few more years so a well priced used LR is my loftiest ambition at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭creedp


    Dont get me wrong Id love the P if I could afford it or if it was my main family car. Unfortunately I have to run a 7 seater as well for a few more years so a well priced used LR is my loftiest ambition at this stage.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I have a MY LR on order so absolutely nothing wrong with it 😃



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭Killer K


    What is this guy up to now?

    Has he a 231 coming as well and decided to just edit his old ad or is he trying to pass the 222 off as a 231?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭Redfox25


    Best case, reusing his add as not to pay more.

    Worst case, chancing his arm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,563 ✭✭✭eagerv


    Personally I love the LFP battery,but I know they are very new. I never worry about how much is in battery, handy for regular full top ups with solar.

    However I do occasionally dream of that P.😊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭creedp


    Forgive the noob question but does the 2019/20 LR have the LFP battery?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    No LR or P has or will have a LFP battery, it's a physical space constraint



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  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jog501


    He's chancing his arm. It's literally the same car he has had up for months and he even mentions the difference to 231 models with USS 😂. Very strange behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Tentative enquiry.

    2020 M3 Performance.

    39,920 Kms. I'm the second owner. First owner put 6k on it then sold it to buy a 911 turbo.

    What's a reasonable asking price for it? I put 4 new Michelin sport tyres on it in November. I'm not in an immediate panic to sell it but I'm moving to a house with on street parking and I'm not arsed public charging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Very hard to say. It's still under full Tesla warranty which will help in a private sale, but the market for second hand cars of that sort of value is small. And your timing is terrible, the arse has fallen out of second hand Tesla values (and most other cars too) and many current Tesla owners are on a race to the bottom having their cars for sale and keep dropping their prices as the Model Y deliveries are starting in a week or two. You might be better holding off for a few months (and hope the SEAI grant goes or is lowered) and then assess the situation

    Would love it myself though, brilliant wee car in track mode



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I have a 2020 M3P.

    White on white interior with EAP.

    36,000km

    Warranty until 2025 and battery and drivetrain warranty until 2028.

    Tesla offered €41k trade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Insurance is up at the end of the month. Might put the payments on to monthly and then see where I go. I was thinking around 45 - 47 might be a reasonable shout?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭bf


    time might be your friend here. Tesla deliveries done by end of March & there has been a distinct lack of M3 deliveries this quarter, and vast majority of them standard range.


    at mid 40s I would think it’s a good buy, but you may need to hold out a bit to get that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭bf


    For sale: all weather mats & bootliner for VW ID4. These are original VW parts & cost over €300 new. Perfect condition - looking around the €150 mark.


    Any enquiries/offers PM me!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,876 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Well I sent in an enquiry to autobuy last night for the crack.

    They'll offer me between €29800 and €30200.

    I haven't had such a laugh in ages 🤣🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭bf


    Short term, dealers aren’t the answer! Private sale the route to go as painful as it is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,726 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    A 2nd car tends to be used less, which means paying a premium for an EV has a longer payback



  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭smax71


    Say in my case I have a leaf as 2nd car, does about 15k k a year which currently costs about €400 to charge on night rate. Equivalent for my diesel at say €1.65 p/l is approx €1,500. So if purely looking at fuel savings I could pay a premium of €3k over an equivalent ICE to breakeven over 3 years. However tax, repairs/maintenance will also likely be lower and I'll have the benefit of a relatively modern fully automatic, dirt simple to drive EV which my other half values very highly.

    So basically up to each person to do the math and decide for themselves which works best



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    You must be getting a fantastic night rate or you don't live in Ireland or the UK...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    15000km at 16kWh / 100km means 2400kWh used (for simplicity we disregard charging losses, which are about 6-8%)

    At €400 that's 16.7c / kWh which is actually a pretty terrible rate. Most EV owners would be on the Energia EV plan. Myself included. I renewed late August and I pay well less than half that. I'm pretty sure there are other plans available from other providers that you can sign up for today, that aren't as bad as nearly 17c

    What made you think his rate was fantastic? I guess you didn't do the sums and reckoned €400 per year is a very low figure to fuel a car? Welcome to the world of EV owners 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Would a leaf do 16Kwh/100? I thought they were heavy on juice. I can't see any plans giving 17c per unit, maybe one of those stupid 2 hour window smart plans accompanied by eye watering day rates, believe it or not people have houses to run too, it's not only the car that uses electricity in my house. 20% of electricity usage in my last billing period was car charging.



  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭smax71


    I have the same electricity plan as @Unkel so if all my charging was done at night rate 15k km would cost less than €250. I added in a buffer for top up charging done at day rate and public chargers. Even if all charging was done at public ecars chargers the charging cost would be the same as for my diesel. This is why I wouldn't recommend an EV without home charging if your sole motivation is to save money. Although my other half would still opt for one as a run around due to it being so easy to drive. So as I said before, it's up to the individual to decide what works best for them



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,318 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    My leaf did around 16kWh/100km once you avoided motorways or above 100km/h indicated (91kmh GPS).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Not bad at all, would there be a big jump at the higher speed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,318 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes, it was worse than my model S. 19-21kwh. Really really bad at motorway speeds. This is what coined the term leafspeed!

    Great car around town though and, remembering what the competition was in 2011-14, a great EV of its day



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭RM Ernest


    My long term average in my 30kwh leaf over about 90k km is 14.7 kwh / 100km. Mostly based on a 100km year round commute on national roads at 80 - 100kmh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭creedp


    That's far better than my 2016 L30. The car display is showing a 16.7 kwh/10km long term average over 160k kms. However Leafspy is currently reporting a 70.1% SOH and 20kwh remaining on battery. This should give a theoritical average range of approx 120km but the max range at present is only 100km and sometimes as low as 80kms even driving liking Miss Daisy, ie at a max 90kph indicated (80kph GPS), which is a bloody killer!! So at present Leatspy is reporting an average consumption of 20kwh/100kms which isnt great, to say the least, for such a low range car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,318 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    That's much better than I got. I didnt even see a kwh figure below 15 before I got my Ioniq.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Comer1


    "I'm pretty sure there are other plans available from other providers that you can sign up for today, that aren't as bad as nearly 17c"

    I don't think that there are



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    A quick look found SSE airtricity have a rate of 10.55c incl VAT for night boost. This is 3 hours per night, so enough to put about 20kWh into your EV. That's enough for a good 40k km per year - more than most of us do.


    A tried copy the link but their website doesn't allow it - I'm sure you'll be able to find it yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭RM Ernest


    Not for 3.3kw leaf charger Unkel!

    But ever other EV yes 😌



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,826 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Only 20k km per year for the 3.3kW Leaf so!

    (I bet not too many people do much more than that in one these days)



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