Can I move into room that has come available in a rented house I own?

jonocon123 · 12-03-2023 11:41am #1

Hi. I own a 4 bed house which is rented out and registered with RTB. One room is coming available and I'd like to move back into it and out of my expensocve rented apartment I live in. Reason I moved out in first place was to be closer to daughter and now she is older and my circumstances have changed. Can I move back in amd make it my home again and deregister it with RTB amd the remaining tenants stay on licence? Thanks

alias no.9 · 12-03-2023 12:00pm

A lot to ponder. How are the rooms normally let when they come free? If you normally select the new tenant you might have a case but if the tenants find their new housemates it will be much more difficult.

To sweeten the deal for the tenants, you could offer them a rent reduction which you'll probably get back in Rent a Room tax relief.

Pawwed Rig · 12-03-2023 2:54pm

I will leave it to a more knowledgeable poster as to whether it is a problem or not but you are quite entitled to give a notice of termination to all tenants on the basis that you are moving in. You can then take them on as licensees if they are in agreement. The only thing that would concern me in what you are suggesting would be the administrative aspects. You MAY have to let them know with the usual notice periods that their protected tenancy will end before moving in. I can't imagine you can just move in unannounced.

Could get messy if everyone isn't on board here

L1011 · 12-03-2023 3:01pm

This would not make the existing tenancy magically become a licence, no.

Pawwed Rig · 12-03-2023 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348866#Comment_120348866

Yes. That is why I would suspect giving the tenants the statutory notice is required.

jonocon123 · 12-03-2023 3:20pm

I guess I'm looking to know can I move into a room which is coming free in a few weeks even though I've not given anyone notice. It's perfect timing for me but I'm aware my rights as a property owner are less now then they used to be. Can't seem to see anything in the law on this. Is it a gap that no one has considered?

jonocon123 · 12-03-2023 3:21pm

I see. This is what I wasn't sure about, can't see anything online about it

Spear · 15-03-2023 12:40pm

Moved to a forum that's actually related to the topic instead.

DFB-D · 15-03-2023 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348945#Comment_120348945

I read something like this before, maybe on the independent.

But as I remember the gist was that you can if the rooms are rented indivdually, but the existing tenancies continue.

Might be something you discuss with the tenants to see if they complain or not...

Ginger83 · 15-03-2023 3:12pm

You should get written clarification from the RTB to be sure before you make a decision.

The DayDream · 15-03-2023 3:14pm

All I know is if my landlord suddenly decided he was going to live in the house I was renting in, I'd be absolutely livid. Especially if he thinks this magically takes away my normal rights and turns me into a licensee, with no feckin notice even!

Besides the absolute ripoff rates being charged this is why renting is so awful in this country. Landlords don't even know that any of the rules are and just assume they can do whatever pleases them.

Having an owner occupier is a totally different vibe for a tenant. If you know the deal going in than that's one thing, to have it changed midlease would be unacceptable to me. I understand you own the gaff but if I'm a tenant and this happened I'd be on the RTB immediately to see what my options are.

Your housemates are going to be uncomfortable with this arrangement to be sure. I'm guessing you don't care and maybe there is no violation but it still sucks for them. Be real fun having to face them every day after you raise the rent next year too.

pc7 · 15-03-2023 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361888#Comment_120361888

Be next year before you hear from them, could you contact a solicitor (and perhaps an accountant to see how it will change your liabilities) in the interim? I take it you'll need to give notice where you are currently.

Ginger83 · 15-03-2023 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361900#Comment_120361900

It might not be allowed but if accepted by the RTB and if it doesn't affect the tenants rights there may not be much the tenant can do if the landlord respects their rights.

Bass Reeves · 15-03-2023 3:36pm

With the way the rental market is it would be crazy of tenant's to kick up a fuss. Let's look at it logically if they refuse you can hand in there statutory notice. It might be 12 months before you get possession but you will get possession.

Not sure if you can then change it to licencee arrangement, however there may be a notice period for that.

Donald Trump · 15-03-2023 3:40pm

If the people renting your room have a tenancy, then you cannot erase that.

I reckon that you'd initially only be a licensee of the tenancy holder yourself. After a certain time has passed, you would be entitled to be a tenant yourself.

You can move in, but if you think it's a crafty way to get a tenant out, it might not go the way you think.

Eldudeson · 15-03-2023 4:00pm

To be fair to the OP, he is trying to find out what he's allowed to do and hasn't said that he's just going to do it off the cuff and to hell with everyone. He's just looking for what the rules are.

It looks like a grey area that does need clarity.

IMO, a reduction in rent should be a given if he does move in with the rent a room scheme so maybe everyone could be a bit better off.

ELM327 · 15-03-2023 4:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362101#Comment_120362101

If all other tenants rent individually from the LL then that wouldnt be the case. If however, there's a main tenant and he sublets the rest of the house, your situation would apply. A very odd case where the owner of the house would be a licensee!

whomitconcerns · 15-03-2023 4:15pm

If they have a lease in the house, then you would interview as a normal tenant and they would decide to take you in or not.

There is no way that you could just move in.

ELM327 · 15-03-2023 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362287#Comment_120362287

As above, that situation would depend on how the existing lease/s is/are structured.

If all other tenants only rent rooms from the LL then there is nothing stopping the LL moving into a free room. If however there is a central tenant who sublets then yes absolutely the interview etc as you outline would occur

Bass Reeves · 15-03-2023 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362287#Comment_120362287

Nobody is saying he can just move in The question is as a tenant with the way the present rental situation is would you take the line he was not entitled to move into the empty bedroom. If you do that he can give the statutory notice for termination and move back in then and you end up without accomodation.

Nobody is sure if the exact law here. He may be entitled to move back in especially if he let the rooms individually.

SwimClub · 15-03-2023 5:33pm

If you let the rooms individually then I think the advice is sound that you can move back in, otherwise it's 6 months notice and then move back if they object to that. But they would need to bear in mind that if you are looking to keep some rooms rented to licensees going forward, then being difficult now would rule them out.

Politically everyone is supportive of people moving back to their own property, they were going to include this as an exception to any eviction ban extension.

Either way I think you need to serve them with notice to end the existing lease(s), you can explain that you want a licensee arrangement going forward, if they want to move I think you'll have no problem finding someone looking for a room share in a house.

Claw Hammer · 15-03-2023 6:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361888#Comment_120361888

The RTB don't give legal advice.

The whole thing depends on the existing lease arrangements.

Ginger83 · 15-03-2023 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362767#Comment_120362767

The owner is not seeking legal advice. They are asking if it would be within the RTB rules or not.

Bass Reeves · 15-03-2023 6:37pm

If you are ringing the RTB let on you are a tenant and ask there advice on it. However trying to get through is 30-60 minutes

MrMusician18 · 15-03-2023 6:56pm

Assuming this is a standard part 4 tenancy then you will have to give notice to terminate the lease. The duration of the notice depends on how long the lease has been in place.

You will then be free to take the room and license the others to the same or different people.

You might be able to convince the current lot to terminate earlier voluntarily if you commit to giving them the license. You could also sweeten it with a reduced rent.

Marcusm · 15-03-2023 11:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348866#Comment_120348866

It would mean that they were living with the landlord and thus fall outside of all RTA protections. I wonder is that what the OP has he n mind.

blackbox · 15-03-2023 11:50pm

If the rooms are let individually I can't think of any reason why you couldn't move into an empty room.

However this would not instantly change the status of existing tenants. (appropriate notice would be required)

If current tenants leave it should be possible to take on any future "tenants" as licencees.

Bass Reeves · 16-03-2023 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364299#Comment_120364299

It dose not seem to be l. He was renting an apartment as his daughter used to stay over. Now she no longer requires to stay over. He stated the apartment was expensive.

If he wanted rid of tenant's he could just give statutory notice and evict.

I suspect he can move in to the house in either situation whether he another tenant replaced the tenant's.

Again at worst he can refuse a replacement tenant and still expect the existing residents to make up the full rent.

However I suspect he can move into the vacant room. Any case I saw in relation to this at the RTB was where a LL tried to use this as a loophole to evict in the short term. If the LL is moving in long-term on this case the RTB is not involved.

Claw Hammer · 16-03-2023 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362840#Comment_120362840

There are no RTB rules. there is a law, the Residential tenancies Act and he is asking if a situation complies with that, which is legal advice.

18-03-2023 2:30pm

I'd suggest you speak to the tenants, explaining the situation, that much is going to be necessary, you will get people on here saying it isn't allowable, but I think it is a grey area. I'd tell them you have no intention of affecting their rights as tenants for the current lease, (which I think is a relevant fact, how long has this tenancy been in place and how do they pay? individually or collectively?)

You could offer following that to stay at a reduced rate, but that you are paying for an apartment that essentially you cant afford or you wouldnt consider.

I can understand why they might be concerned, but I dont see how they are losing out? if the alternative is you give notice and follow that course of action. Imo opinion it would be an unusual situation, because you would have a tenancy, but appear to be factually not liable for tax under the allowable limits, that may benefit your tenants if in fact you offer a sweetener and make it written outlining your reasons, their agreements if they do and you could get this on the basis of a potential reduction in rent.

If you are around the same age and potentially are like minded individuals, I think this is an arrangement that could be beneficial for all. Unfortunately, the regulations and guidelines appear to have been created by people who have very little real world experience and for very limited, inflexible and sometimes unrealistic scenarios.

DownByTheGarden · 21-03-2023 6:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348383#Comment_120348383

Thats a very good idea.

Can I move into room that has come available in a rented house I own?

Answers