You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

Do you think that fella from Ireland first is getting elected to the Dail any time soon?

Do you believe Ireland first are a serious threat to the stability of this country?

Forget their aspirations. Do you believe that Ireland First pose a real threat to this country?

We've had one on the go the last few years in the shape of the National Party, they've achieved nothing since their formation.

If left leaning Sinn Fein were to be the largest party in a coalition government they're proposing all sorts of pie in the sky nonsense that will likely drive investment away from Ireland and plunge the country into an economic crisis of never before seen depths. They will be relying on the likes of People Before Profit, the Greens etc to make up a coalition. Only then will we see the true insanity of the Gino Kenny's et al. That's where the danger to this country lies. Not with a few nitwits with bookmarks stuck in the first chapter of Mein Kampf.

Free speech innit mate 🤣

Thats what years of taking ganja will do, but I doubt he will be there after the next election seeing as he turned on the very people he needs to vote for him.

Didn't the guy who killed the Detective Garda who was sentenced today (Stephen Silver, was all over the news at dinner time) cite the George Floyd, BLM situation as justification for him emptying a clip of bullets into that man?

I'm pretty sure had he been a looney of the right wing variety more would have been made of his political leanings during his trial.

Edit. Just want to clarify that I'm not trivialising that case for point scoring. The whole thing as awful.

The far right element at he protests was very small, most of them were ordinary local people concerned about unvetted males coming into their communities and their fears were well founded based on assaults that have been happening but ignored by the lib media.

Most of the assaults are made up by those scumbags and people are starting to see that thankfully. We've seen those things pushed on here too. You yourself have stated every refugee is a liar and economic migrant which says it all about you.

So the nazi's were the real victims all along?

Here's the thing about nazi's and totalitarian states. They targeted people because of what they were.

They hated jewish people because they were jewish. It didn't matter what their political beliefs were, or even their religious beliefs. They hated them just for existing. It's not something that they could ever stop being. If they changed religion, changed their names, it didn't matter.

People who were anti nazi hated the nazi's but because of what the nazi's believed. They didn't care what they were, the cared who they were.

The alt right in the culture war go after gay people. They go after trans people. They go after emigrants and people of different races. They go after women. They want to remove or restrict the rights those people have. It doesn't matter how nice those people are. It doesn't matter how harmless they are. It's what they are that matters to right wingers, not who they are.

And a key point of the nazi's beliefs is that they targeted certain groups and scapegoated them. See that group? they're the reason your life is crap. They're the source of your pain. We need to get rid of them. Once they're gone, the country will be so much better.

So yes, the language around migrants is very much like the language that nazi's used. And calling that out doesn't make someone totalitarian. it makes them the enemy of totalitarianism

Labelling people as Nazis because they're against illegal immigration and would like stronger measures to tackle it, is needlessly aggressive language that only serves to polarize and divide groups of people in society. Something the Nazis themselves were very keen on...

Apart from anything else, it's a pointless strategy. It achieves nothing worthwhile... when you throw around these lazy generalizations, you've clearly lost the argument. And you actually feed the sort of movements that you claim to dislike. When people see the left behaving like morons, with these sort of brain dead opinions, it doesn't drive more people towards their loony worldview.

We are creating deeply polarized societies. And the worst part about it, is that so many people not only don't seem to care about the long term consequences of this, but in fact are actually enjoying the tribalism.

We know that people on the far right will do anything to downplay the far right so that it appears like there is no far right in existence. We have actually seen that leaked from telegram chats of the far right in this country. One of their biggest aims is to downplay the far right on twitter and forums. So it's quite suspect when someone comes along with that exact M.O.

Nobody has said the far right don't exist.

We're illustrating that the far left exist and are enjoying a greater amount of support than the far right could dream of in Ireland.

Take the 2020 General election for an actual measure of the support for left/far left versus the far right in Ireland. More than 40% of the votes cast were for left/far left parties (Sinn Fein, Labour, Greens, Doc Dems, PBP Solidarity).

The right accounted for 0.5% of votes cast (Renua who are no longer a real entity , Irish Freedom and the National Party). Only one of those parties (National Party) are an avowed far right party.

Even if we take just the extremes, the far left PBP solidarity vote was 57,420 (2.6%). The Far right National Party vote was 4773 (0.2%).

This demonstrates that just accounting for the extreme ends of the political spectrum the far left is massively out muscling the far right in Ireland with no sign of any gains being made by the far right.

This demonstrates that what you are describing above is little more than scaremongering.

"So the nazi's were the real victims all along?"

"So, what you're saying is...."

You just label these parties far left. I label them far right. See how easy that is.

Can you substantiate how each of these parties is "far left" and how that delineates from simply "the left" "the sort of left" and "the middle?" etc.

Your thesis seems to hinge on defining this well.

Can you please link to these manifestos you have indicated, thank you.

This seems like its paraphrased, what's the source for all this, and how does calling something out as far right make them far left?

By that logic, you're as far right as they get, for calling out a far left. Bananas, right?

Needs citation and substantiation. How do we verify these policies were all indeed fiscally right of centre and socially left of centre. And how does that make the other entities who are not FG or FF "far left" - it's not a zero sum game, you can have as many moderate parties as there are stars in the sky. The existence of an allegedly middling FG or FF does not make SF or whomever else, by exclusion, the far left.

You made the claim. Your burden of proof.

What you say without evidence will be dismissed without evidence.

Clearly, these entities are not the far left based upon their manifestos or you would be more than capable of proving your point. A failure of you to prove your point is not a homework assignment of mine - I'm not your butler.

Widely accepted by whom?

Your level of argument is like someone shouting the Democrats are a far left party (which is a laughable statement). You'd actually want to be able to substantiate how exactly your labels stick properly to each of these. If you can't, that's fine, you picked an uphill battle today trying to make boogeymen of the far left from which there is apparently no dangers coming.

Any political activism can take up enormous amounts of personal time. Is not wanting kids evidence of being far left?

Socialism is such a broad stroke that's simply 'left' to me, not 'far left.' Unless you know of Paul Murphy's intention to seize the means of production and collectivizing private property? That's Bernie left, not burn down Milwaukee, occupy Portland far left.

Then it should be easy for you to prove your own claim. Dismissed without evidence.

In case you forgot what you said:

"Take the 2020 General election for an actual measure of the support for left/far left versus the far right in Ireland. More than 40% of the votes cast were for left/far left parties (Sinn Fein, Labour, Greens, Doc Dems, PBP Solidarity)."

By lumping them all together you made no effective distinction between the 2 classes of "left" and left it as a labor for the reader to interpret which of these groups are left and which are "far left" from your single parenthesized data set.

But it's an online discussion and I literally don't have the care or the onus to look. The burden of proof lies with the claimants. Why should the person making the argument be expected to put in less work than the person listening? I must remember next time I sit down for someone's dissertation defense to come prepared with their slides and samples.

If you told me they sold them in India I'd certainly have an ask.

Also,

How dare we be scrutable - we might learn something new!

Simply stating you don't have a burden of proof doesn't mean you don't. Simply saying it's easily substantiated doesn't mean it has been - as demonstrated by your lack of being able to substantiate it so easily, now instead just filibustering rather than substantiating.

You wish to make an argument that dangers are coming from the far left and your most impressionable and substantiated example thus far has been Paul Murphy having a baby. And your 2nd best attempt is waving at a parenthesized set of parties and saying 'yep, they're the danger' and scoffing that such a weak argument is being quite modestly challenged for soundness and we've found it lacking.

You and me. Even you found your argument lacking, placing the burden on me to fill in and "google" your gaps for you. "It's not like I'm saying something extraordinary" etc.

But that's the issue with the context of this thread how are we pitting them each as far left and far right? Are there no moderate parties?

Well the thread is all entirely about the label isn't it, so we should want to be clear on who the left is, how left they are, and how dangerous they allegedly are yes?

You can PM me about off topic things. But I'm here to discuss the topic. If you have some personal animus toward me that's not a problem of mine to resolve here. I'll just note that's your excuse for not backing your own arguments.

You made an entire argument over the data you posted which is why you posted it, and you characterized it as you did.

I had a whole paragraph typed out about your labeling of everything of right or left but the focus of the thread title is the left, we had a whole thread discussing the titling of the right. The purpose of this new thread is the left, not a continuation or threadban-evasion of the previous thread to which this thread is ironically titled.