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Ireland v England Grand Slam Decider 2023

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Your showing your sparkling knowledge of the rules again thinking the ball was dead.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Define the ball being dead please. In your mind, does the ball being dead mean the ball is in play?

    If youre not tackling but youre running towards an opposing player at speed, what exactly are you doing?



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    I'll ask you again, how many years of rugby have you played?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Players are routinely tackled at exactly the moment they gain possession, or are in a realistic position to gain possession. To say that players 'brace for impact when a player is running at them without the ball' is not true except in kick chase situations. Coaches might take a dim view of their players not tackling or not placing themselves in a position to tackle, and any future Lions coach will have that image of Steward turning in the back of their mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭Seadin


    I'm delighted in one sense that Ireland didn't destroy England like France did last week. We won the Grand Slam but we may have to lower the expectations with the RWC slightly after yesterdays performance. Yes I want Ireland to do very well in the RWC and it possible win it but no harm for Farrell and the Irish team to have something to work with facing the RWC. They will know after yesterdays game, that performance would not do against France or New Zealand in a RWC and if we get to the QF stage. Some of the handling errors they made in the game were very poor. The lineout at times did not function properly either. They have plenty to work with going forward and hopefully everyone they need playing doesn't get unfortunate injuries coming up to the tournament. Let's hope they create a bit of history for this RWC as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    The Laws state that a tackler must attempt to wrap. Failure to wrap constitutes foul play.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You’re asking this poster how long he’s played, while also dismissing the views of ex-pro’s who’ve played for decades.

    You can’t have it both ways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Maybe a new thread for the endless red card argument.

    Think the problem here like many rugby rules is the interpretation of the laws by the officials at that point in time. I can clearly see both sides of this argument from an officials point of view and I suppose why this is gonna go round and round.

    When I first saw it my immediate reaction was due to Keenans dip in height this was clear mitigation to avoid a red card. My opinion hasn't really changed although I can see how an official interprets it the way Jaco did. Don't think anything Steward did was malicious or planned and think Wilkinson got it right on the ITV uk commentary, Steward was initially gonna hack the ball and as Keenan fell forward realised an impact was coming.Think he was unlucky.

    It's a grey area as it's not an exact science, the mitigation is always open to interpretation.

    But hey ho we would have nothing else to talk about. Sure we only won a grand slam :)

    Bottom line is I find it hard to be absolute on this one either way.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Think this sums it up well. I think it was harsh but i get why the ref gave a red under the rules.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Very good summary, imo.

    I think it’s possible to understand why it was a red and also think Stewart was unlucky.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Steward could have tried to grab the ball with his hands. He had time to turn his body and lead with his upper arm/shoulder into Keenans head.


    Steward as never legal which removes the various mitigation factors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    True. No malicious intent, but some contact never the less.

    You wouldn't see Scott Penny making such a silly "tackle".



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Oh so it's ok for that poster to call us 'deluded' because we think it's a red card? And base their nonsense on how it is in soccer or GAA?

    aloooof, you're a mod here now. Maybe keep up with the conversation before you dive in at the arse end of it.

    I'm asking that poster that specific question for a reason, and it's because they came in here with their billy big bollocks comparing rugby to GAA and soccer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,734 ✭✭✭Bleating Lamb


    Nursing the Mother and Father of all hangovers today but is worth it.

    Watched the game in pub yday and as such you don’t get to hear the analysis properly at both half and full time.

    After 60 mins I said to a pal that Sheahan was already MOTM……was excellent in open play when others around him were underperforming.

    Thought Bundee was excellent as well,and considering his lack of game time Rob Henderson wasn’t found wanting either.

    Well done Ireland!😉🏉☘️💥



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    the poster in question had referenced playing in other sports, Soccer and GAA. That’s where that question stems from. If you are going to say anyone who has played at any level in another sport, it’s a bit of strange argument about an incident in a rugby game, no?

    Personally I thought Kearney’s point was ridiculous. He was offering a side profile to avoid him. Then why did he plant and brace?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Steward didn't run 20 metres to tackle a guy. He ran at a loose ball. Keenan became the ball carrier roughly 0.2 seconds before the collision. Had Steward got to the ball first chances are Keenan would have smashed into him and got a red card for head contact.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    England were very good in parts and sloppy in others. Credit to them for getting upto pitch despite lacking a cohesive and drilled attack, their defence was shown up last week but as good as it's been all tournament this week.

    I worried that if England upped their game and Ireland weren't on top of theirs that we might have struggled but that didn't really transpire. England upped their game and Ireland were not at the top of theirs but we limited their scoring opportunities when they had real momentum, we created and subsequently coughed up plenty of scoring opportunities ourselves but were just clinical enough to put the game out of reach by the final quarter.

    Lot's of people discussing the various turning points but for me it was the Jamie George try. England were absolutely spent by the time that went over, they had no energy or lift off the back of that score and walked away breathless and subdued. They'd answered the worst of their critics but the tank was empty and the confidence we'd started to build when we stretched to 24-9 was never reigned in.

    Interesting that three of our tries this weekend were scored by our hookers when just last week we spent a considerable amount of time with no hookers on the pitch. Have heard criticisms of the atmosphere for the second time this tournament but again, hearing the exact opposite from anyone I know that was there. Huge ovation for Sexton when he came off which is well deserved in his six nations swansong and a big credit to the English team, not only did they have their best six nations performance yesterday but they showed a very great deal of class at full time.

    If I was in charge of officiating I'd have given a yellow to Steward. I can accept the line of logic that resulted in the red but to me it was unfortunate, maybe a bit clumsy but mitigated sufficiently to reduce the sanction. Player safety is the out and out priority so I tend not to contest these calls but I thought Keenan was dipped enough and Steward passive enough that the sanction should have been reduced.

    It doesn't tarnish the result for me either way - Ireland were in control in the final 20 and one player wouldn't have made the difference.

    Won't go into individual performances as we've just won a tournament and yesterday was the culmination of that effort. The coaching ticket on the other hand absolutely deserve singling out. Am always mindful that Andy Farrell played against Ireland on a very significant day not only for Irish rugby but for the country itself. In 2007 England came to play Ireland in Croke park after much discussion and debate about whether that was acceptable and how it would be received. It was an occasion that I've always been proud of in that Irish supporters demonstrated intense passion and matched it with maturity and a respect direct both inward and outward.

    We absolutely annihilated England that day and yet their starting inside centre is now the devoted leader of the Irish rugby team. He's rapidly becoming the Jackie Charlton of Irish rugby and I hope the same enthusiasm surrounds him going into 'France 23. We all had our doubts about Mike Catt but Ireland is now one of the best attacking sides in the World and Paul O'Connell's introduction coincided with this team becoming a force in the way that Irish rugby has never been but Paul O'Connell always was.

    Great win, have enjoyed every minute of it.

    Sexton > Rog

    (sorry)



  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭jt69er


    Watch it again, Keenan had the ball, Stewart turned into him. Cheap shot!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Absolutely, Keenan will definitely be cited tomorrow. Way too many hypothetical head injuries, the authorities have to act.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    It wasn't a good performance. But we won our 4th Grand Slam in our history, beating the World Cup favourites on the way, as well as the supposed best Scottish team of the pro era in their own backyard (both comfortably). Not to mention hammering Wales in the Millennium. These days don't come around too often and should be cherished and enjoyed.

    While we didn't play well, we managed to pull it out of the bag when it mattered most. There was a period in that game when everything was falling apart. But we managed to compose ourselves enough to get things together and deliver a big final quarter and take the game away from England. Yes the red card was harsh, but no team has ever won anything without a bit of luck on the way. There was zero luck involved in the 4 wins prior.

    IMO, yesterday Andy Farrell confirmed his status as our greatest ever coach.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,146 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I worked at the game. not my usual place but atmosphere was up there one of the best and i thought we werent busy...

    Havent seen game in full yet but on the red. it was a definite red. no mitigation no contest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭crisco10


    Yeah, watching rugby on virgin is like an exercise in sensory deprivation. The picture is blurry, and the sound muted.

    All the big moments (bairds turnover, the 1st half defense etc) the crowd were involved. I've been to lansdowne on enough quiet to days to know yesterday wasn't one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭crisco10


    While I agree that steward was unlucky, his issue was that he didn't even try to grasp the ball (in fact he turned toward the touchline when ball was the otherway).

    If he had been trying to gather the ball, the liklihood of it being called a "rugby incident" goes up significantly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Red was unlucky for me, Steward went into self preservation mode just as Keenan was at his most defenceless.

    Think there was enough mitigation in the unfortunate timing to reduce to a yellow.

    Just hope it doesn't affect Keenan's confidence going forward.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,098 ✭✭✭Augme



    They haven't taken a long hard look at the laws though. Hence the reason new laws are being trialled in Super 12 rugby around this issue and the severity of the punishment. Also, if they'd take a long hard look around the science around brain injury they would punish players who lead into contact with their head too.



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