Detective Garda Colm Horkan killed in Castlerea, Roscommon - [MOD WARNING POST #1]

Both the clinical director of the Central Mental Hospital and the doctor who examined Silver the night of the incident said he was very mentally unwell.

How this behaviour described by Greg Kelly on the night in question constitutes anything but a very mentally unwell individual is beyond me https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/stephen-silver-out-of-touch-with-reality-in-the-hours-after-garda-shooting-court-told-1378666.html

Thanks and what were the criteria the judge gave for deciding one of these expert opinions was accurate and the other not?

Feel free to share as much detail as you like.

Thanks, having read same I still think it's an unsafe conviction in the ethical or logical sense.

Based on the judges directions it seems the burden is on the defence to show beyond reasonable doubt sufficient mental incapacity.

So as soon Prof Kennedy steps forward with his 'learned impunity' opinion, there would pretty have to be a reasonable doubt.

Legally sound, ethically and logically highly dubious imho.

You keep mention logically. I'm confused. Explain what you believe that word means please.

As for ethically. That amuses me. He brought the gun to a place he was going to rob. Hmmm. Maybe he was handing it in as he knew he was potentially going to be a murderer. God bless the scumbag.

He'll get all the psychiatric help he needs when he's in prison for like. He'll be well looked after. Unlike many other poor unfortunates on the outside without a home or shelter.

I don't think he murdered anyone.

At least not beyond a reasonable doubt.

And it wasn't proven that he did, the law just defaulted to that position.

Absolute rubbish.

He murdered a person who was protecting the people of Ireland. He had a family!

You try to play down a brave man doing his duty on a daily basis and he paid the ultimate price.

And your first thought is about the killer. Says a lot about you.

He put a bullet in him.

Are you a physiatrist. Was in court.

The man is dead. I may need to expand that sentence a bit, just to be logical...he's not alive!

Please feel free to ask if you need a scientific definition of how your brain destroyed may result in an unfortunate event.

What's SCC do you mind me asking?

It’s the prosecutions goal to provide the evidence to convict the defendant beyond reasonable doubt - I’ve been on an Irish jury in the past and have a high degree of faith in this system- it’s not perfect but it’s not that bad either.

The jury would have focussed a great deal of their energies on the prosecution evidence. While reading the sad history of mental illness of the accused, you might be tempted to say that there’s strong argument for manslaughter due to diminished responsibility - however it’s his state of mind at the time of the murder that counts the most- historical data and testimony, while somewhat relevant from a context perspective and quite heartbreaking to read, is not the core issue.

Guidance from the Judge included:

To convict him of murder, you must be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he intended to kill or cause serious injury,”

Also, the possible verdicts they could consider related to capital murder, murder simpliciter, or manslaughter either because of diminished responsibility or self-defence. She said that a verdict of not guilty was not open to them in the case as Silver had entered a plea to the charge of manslaughter.

While this case is very sad for all concerned, my faith in the jury system is very strong given my own experience- in the trial I was involved in, the defence tried to create doubt through some outlandish conspiracy theories and red herrings- however the prosecution evidence was very clear and very compelling- from the limited reading of reports I’ve seen on this particular case, I think the defence did something similar- the more the defence seems desperate to clutch at straws the more solid the prosecution case sounds- scatter gun doubt didn’t work in the case I was involved in and it didn’t work here either.

The bar of beyond reasonable doubt is very high- while it probably did surprise me that the jury didn’t choose diminished responsibility, I wasn’t at the trial- it’s the jury that heard all of the evidence and I’d have faith in their decision - and the fact this is a retrial just shows how difficult such a decision is to obtain.

Sad tragic event all round. Garda lost his life doing his job which is terrible. Its pretty clear that this was due to a mental breakdown. Families ruined and bereft.

Rip.

I am not convinced you can have faith in a jury of non experts to decide on his degree of mental capacity during the key timeframe. Those believing you can, probably did not have faith in the first jury being unable to agree a verdict.

This jury's decision was most likely swayed by the testimony of the Professor of Psychiatry. The go to guy for the DPP in these matters. His learned impunity argument seems questionable. I mean a man who thinks learned impunity from previous events is going to see him released from custody the day after killing a guard is clearly not of sound mind to begin with.

Also the key witness for the prosecution , if you knew his background, is not a reliable witness at all in my opinion. It would not suit the prosecution to focus on this, though. So I respectfully disagree with your view that the prosecution case was a strong one. It did not have to be. Had Silver killed a civilian they probably would have found it much more difficult to get a prosecution in this case.

A jury of 12 individuals who are total strangers to each other agreed with the prosecution evidence. You’re focusing totally on the testimony of the psychiatrist - what about the fact that Silver shot the victim 11 times- he meant to kill him- which places manslaughter with diminished responsibility in a much more inaccessible place in the minds of the jury - as for your comment on a civilian vs a guard there’s no point in confusing the thread with alternative realities - I could say that quite possibly, had only one bullet been discharged and somehow killed the victim in the struggle, that maybe the manslaughter with diminished responsibility might have been considered more appropriate - but that’s not the reality we’re dealing with here.