Irish Traveller culture to be promoted through school curriculum: Posted on BBC website!

A culture which treats women and girls as inferior and less than human IS an inferior culture. I don't care what race or religion or nationality the proponents of that culture are. People as individuals are all equal from birth. But all cultures are NOT equal, and refusing to acknowledge this has led us into the mess we're in today. Why can't you see that? I am sick of liberal left-leaning people abandoning women and girls to these practices because they're afraid to offend or be called racists or whatever. It is cowardly and dishonest.

And what do you propose doing with these 'inferior' cultures?

And on what basis have you concluded we treat women and girls any better?

I very much doubt women and girls are being trafficked to this country, and other Western countries, to the extent they are, to meet to the needs of Traveller men.

I doubt so many women and girls find themselves disproportionately in sweat shops and forced labour because of Travellers needs for fast fashion and consumer products.

Last I checked it wasn't Travellers opposed to regulation of violent pornography and hate speech, so that girls, and boys for that matter, wouldn't be so readily and dangerously exposed to it online.

You seem fine with abandoning women and girls to these practices, just so long as you've got the minority groups to portray as some simplistic, one-dimensional 'bad guys'. Is that how it works?

Sadly they are being trafficked and it's horrific. What I'm saying is that it's very much likely to be demand from settled men that's driving the practice.

It didn't take long for you to start putting words in my mouth.

I didn't for a moment imply or suggest it's only settled men engaging in these practices.

But given the demographics I think it's fair to say it's predominantly settled men driving the demand for these practices. I also wouldn't know of any Traveller CEOs signing contracts to outsource manafacturing to where forced female labour is widespread.

Ultimately we're all responsible for our actions and should be held to account. I'm not making excuses for anyone.

What I am doing is pointing to the fallacy and danger of comparing cultures to denote one as criminal and inferior.

And challenging that is not 'whataboutary', you're the one bringing this hate-filled notion of cultural inferiority to the table.

But let me guess, you're not a racist right? You just happen to be writing about the awful practises commited by some Traveller men, while conveniently ignoring the similar awful practises of some men in your own culture.

Well of course it's mostly settled men engaging in these practices in Ireland, they make up the vast majority of the population. Just because Traveller men are not CEOs signing off on things doesn't mean they aren't part of the globalised chain of exploitation in the clothing industry, the sex trade, etc. etc, they are consumers as much as the rest of us. What about the recent cases of Travellers engaging in actual, direct human slavery like two stories below? Are such practices common among settled Irish people?

You are going round and round in circles. I do see what you're saying, I know that Travellers have suffered discrimination and prejudice in the past, and that it's wrong to attribute negative traits to an entire group of people. But the statistics speak for themselves. It is not "hate-filled" to point out that they are as a group, up to their necks in violence, criminality and ways of life that negatively affect them and their ability to function in mainstream society.

You are the one who first used the word "inferior" by the way, when you said that it's wrong to treat any culture as inferior to another. I then made the distinction between people and culture. Travellers are not inferior people but the way many of them live is inferior, especially the girls and women. And I don't ignore the similar awful practices of men in my own culture, that's quite a leap. You don't know anything about me or my line of work. I can tell you that Traveller women are very over-represented in domestic violence shelters and services, it is absolutely accepted in "their culture" that men beat women and control them. Do you think that's common or acceptable in mainstream culture? Or if I were to pull my 16 year old daughter out of school to marry her cousin, do you think I would get away with that?

I do feel like I'm banging my head off a brick wall here, so I'll leave it.

I think most parents would object to that kind of 'culture' being shown to their children in school. I could see a lot of empty classrooms when that would be shown. I's neanderthal behaviour.

And all done on the dole.

Hopefully this video will be preserved for future generations

Nice video here, Traveller women speaking about their culture and experiences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Iktpfq68I

I find the above, and some of your other responses to be really strange. I have friends, relatives, and colleagues from various different cultures around the world, and we discuss our cultures regularly. I have travelled all over the world, and have never come across anyone, anywhere, who considered questions about their culture to be bullying or racism. I think asking what, exactly, Traveller culture consists of is a fair and pertinent question, considering it is to be thought in schools - if asking what their culture is, is a racist question, then how is a curriculum going to be devised?

I can, in a couple of sentences give a brief outline of Irish culture, Muslim culture, Sami culture, Native American culture etc. I cannot do the same for Traveller culture - is that me, or, as I suspect, is it because the question cannot be easily answered?

Einstein said, “If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

I think that applies very well in this case.

Also, I didn't call anyone a racist or bully for asking me to define Traveller culture.

They're racists and bullies because of the things they said about Travellers. Then they asked me to prove these things wrong with examples.

This is what you "progressives" like to call "victim blaming". Many of the people you're calling bullies have been bullied by Travellers, yet in your mind, somehow, the Travellers are the real victims. I've known many Travellers better than you ever will; I've been in their homes, I've seen their wars, and I've experienced it all as closely as you could. It's very clearly you haven't had the same experience, yet you're calling all of those who have names. You're literally speaking from a position of utter ignorance, acting as an authority on a topic that you've zero right to. You need to lived it before you can speak on it, and you've clearly never lived it.

So nobody knows Travellers as well as you?

Here's an interesting article on Traveller's in Rathkeale. What you might find of interest here is the settle people interviewed speaking about how peaceful and quiet they find the town, and how most businesses there now welcome Travellers.

Listening to the likes of yourself, you'd expect it to be a warzone.

Please explain?