Ireland v England Grand Slam Decider 2023

Ill add Bealham to players getting really important playing time.

It wasn't Peyper's contention that Steward should have turned sideways.

Steward said he didn't have time to avoid Kennan.

Pepper replied 'You had time to turn sideways'. His implication was that Steward had enough time to make a decisive movement, contrary to what Steward had asserted.

Those comments from ROG were very disappointing when I heard them. Expected more from him as a coach and person.

Basically said that neither the risk of injurying a player nor the risk of being sent off and bans is enough incentive for him to change how he coaches his players to tackle safer. What they might lose in every tackle isn't worth it versus the risk.

I was surprised more wasn't made of it at the time.

Really shows what a negative step moving to the 20 minute cards would be, if anything points to the need of even harsher punishments until certain coaches cop on.

I don't disagree that your take on his position is correct, but I understood him to be talking about legal hits that end up as illegal hits. Meaning that currently a legal tackle is pretty high (just below the shoulder) and that in some instances it makes perfect sense to hit at the maximum height to stop a player in his tracks. Hitting at the maximum height sometimes leads to illegal hits (he talked about getting your 'timing' wrong) but the risk/reward means players and coaches continue to do it. My takeaway was that the legal height is too high as it leads to head shots, especially given that coaches and players will always play the line.

@Clareman Lomu was nearer 18 stone than he was 16.

Nearer 19 than he was 18. And that was in 1995 as a teenager!

I always remember lomu listed in programs as 18st 8 lbs.

Wasn't sure if I misremembered so went back to listen and you're being extremely generous to him, giving him every benefit of the doubt. If Borthwick or Jones came out with that exact interview they'd be slated.

Yes, he tried to caveat everything by continuously dropping in words for the importance of player safety but then when he got into details those words went out the window. It was 'player safety is of the upmost importance but...'

ROG acknowledged, nearly gleefully, that the French player would have realised that he was much larger than Herring and said 'the mindset is that they're trying to get a shot in', 'this guy I'm going to shudder him', 'I want to buckle him'.

He was given every opportunity to say that he coaches his team to tackle safer than was shown on the pitch that day but basically used the excuse that he has lots of other things to coach and can't coach every tackle scenario.

For me, that all makes it crystal clear that ROG doesn't see enough incentive for him to take the time and effort to coach his players to put player safety and staying on the pitch over 'getting a shot in' that could end in concussing the opposition.

The game needs to continue to shift the incentives until coaches have no other option than to focus on coaching players to be safer out there

ROGs job as a coach is to win rugby matches, he's not the health and safety welfare officer. He's there to make the best decisions possible that will ensure his team win rugby matches. Its the responsibility of the Governing bodies and Unions to enact laws to ensure player safety. There's nothing stopping world rugby outlawing tackles above the waist. Expecting coaches to implement and coach to laws that don't exist is a cop out on World Rugby's part.

Again, you're making my point for me.

I'm using ROG as the example as he just came out and said the thing out loud - that for all the lip service of caring about player welfare he isn't incentivised to coach his players to tackle lower.

I'm confident that many, many coaches feel the same way as him.

It might be green tinted glasses but I feel the Irish set up is different and have their players tackling lower - their card stats support this. I'm not saying it is down to trying to be 'good', they clearly see the incentives of keeping 15 on the pitch as being enough compared to the big hits.

The lads have decided. Not a red….not even a penalty….a rugby incident……. Saying all that - prob should have been a red in France game….

Fortunately the lads are all able to bring the weight and value of their extensive playing & coaching experience to this subject, as none of them are brain injured (opinions may differ on this). A panel of ex players currently dealing with the long term effects of CTE might not come to the same conclusion.

But that's not ROGs fault if the disincentives are not high enough. As for the game needing to continue to shift, that's very open to opinion.