Your New WHS Index

WEEKEND RESULTS ....FAIRLY TYPICAL

Preferred lies ,mixture of tees. Some forward end of members tees some forward end of championship. Some rain some wind...Its ireland lad...Patricks weekend... MARCH...

59 Friday AND 87 Sunday Played.

24 equalled or bettered their h/c Friday

32 equalled or bettered their h/c Sunday

Course rating is 71.6 slope 133

It is high scoring.....but...

In fairness was 42 or 43 ever considered out of reach ?..with forward tees in part and placing ..it is going to be high scoring (not in my reach ) ...but it is going to be in early 40s....yes the 47 is daft ...but that is Div 3 and will be a feature of div 3 going forward with high upper limits...that isn't a whs issue.

It has been pointed out a few times ..and we just haven't got our head around it ...but as WHS is an average based system..loads of people will be equalling their handicap...their average performance is equaling their handicap.

Whilst it appears people have lost a bit of confidence in WHS for club golf...we do need to understand it is an average based system ...it isn't comparable to old system...

And add in a comp over two different days. Weather can play a part.

But isn't it the case that no matter what system is used, there will always be a lag between a players ability/form etc and their handicap reflecting that ?

I agree some of the scores being reported do seem whacky since WHS came in, but I think its a few factors, mostly around being that its an average based system, it automatically brings almost the entire field into contention on a given Saturday. It might not be PC to say this, but I personally think that, under CONGU, if you had a field of 150 players, probably 100 of them were wasting their time and money entering, they had no chance whatsoever. If you're average Joe club guy, CONGU really nailed you for that really good round, and even worse if you had two good ones with the ESR. You could have some high handicapper had the round of his life in ideal conditions (let's say 40 yards of run in the summer), loses 4 shots and then reverts to his "normal", but his normal 30pts is now 26/27pts, and he won't go back to his old handicap for 4 years.

Also with it being average based, you've probably got half the, now more competitive, field likely to beat their handicap each day. Maybe WHS has swung too far the other way from CONGU, I don't really think so tbh, I know most weeks in my place the scores don't seem to be too mad. You get the odd one, but you always got that anyway. I'd totally disregard winter scores anyway, conditions are usually so far removed from real golf they're almost a different sport imo.

I dunno, is your handicap there to help you compete or stop you competing, or help you compete but not too much ? The idea of demonstrated ability is so subjective in a way. Like, demonstrated since when ? last year, 5 years ago, 10 years ago ?

back of an envelope stuff. but i think it was pretty much known that under CONGU you were expected to play to your handicap once in about 8 rounds. Logically averaging your handicap brings that number down. average of 8 means likely somewhere between 3-5 rounds out of best 8 will be better than the average. so that means 3-5 rounds out of last 20 will be better than your handicap. or about 1 in 4. but not only that you play to your handicap, you beat it and sometimes massively. its a vastly different system, and it's not a good one

Totally agree. Honestly I don't mind what system we use, I'll score what I score and have no motivation for prizes. I think I probably prefer WHS but really its like 51:49 in favour. I like how current it is and how you can have a few games where a bad round won't impact you (obviously depending on your sequence of 20). The flip is that its much more volatile and when a really good, counting score drops off your record, you can have a fairly big jump in H/C, which if you're trying to get down or improving can be annoying. Still, I guess its only a number !

It would have had to be subjective and imperfect. A good HC Sec would have been able to look at the scoring form and make a call. Completely agree that it would have put a fair bit of work on the HC Committee which mightn't be fair, but ESR's / too low of an initial handicap were fairly infrequent.

In general terms I think Congu was a really good system. It was unfair is a fairly small minority of cases where HCs didn't go out fast enough for some genuine cases. It would have involved more work for the HC Sec but my suggestion would have helped resolve one of the major flaws in it imo.

WHS does quickly correct things. In genuine cases that's great. But it also allows not so genuine cases to quickly build up their HC.

If I was to choose who had control of this, I would prefer the HC Sec to have that control.

GreeBo ...I personally think getting people to play off different tees sounds great in theory...but in practice, it is hard enough to get 4 people to tee off from the one tee...would be chaos, dangerous and slow..

would disagree regarding tees

good golfers become great golfers with a honed short game. length helps, but i know a lot of really low guys who wouldn't have length off the tee, they are just lethal with their short game

True enough about the lower guys, but prior to WHS it was predominately the lower guys playing to their H/C as they were more consistent. There was an article maybe 6 months ago showing that its a much more even spread under WHS. A low guy is rarely going to win the overall, its just the nature of the game (unless conditions are bad) - we all know a 20 h/c has more scope to shoot 4 shots under than a scratch. I mean for the sake of argument, let's say a scratch guy could shoot 5 under on his best day, does that mean that a higher handicap shouldn't be allowed or able to go better than -5 ? When net scores are king, the low guys always get short shrift. Most of them are fine with that anyway from what I've seen - they generally speaking have different goals in the sport, lowest handicap possible, qualify for a Championship, win a scratch cup etc.

I totally disagree about the amount of effort argument tbh. Your handicap is meant to let everyone compete, not to let them compete if they put in X amount of effort. Who decides on what is an acceptable amount of effort ? To me, that argument just doesn't stand up. I mean, I see the point, but you're just never going to have a system that's absolutely "fair" to the best gross golfers, they're too much of a minority and they're competing against a theoretically now bigger number of golfers able to beat their handicap. I assume for the vast majority, golf is simply their pastime, probably equal part social and "sport" as such ? Is that fair to say ? Some people are just never going to be good at golf (in terms of their gross score) but they love it and enjoy it and their handicap allows them to occasionally be competitive. I don't think its right to tell anyone you can only have 18 shots because you could practice harder. All that said, I don't know where I'd draw the line, I don't think anyone should have 54 shots either.

I think the really low handicaps sort of have to accept that they're basically playing a different sport to the majority. They're the best and they system is designed to let everyone compete somewhat equally. Low handicappers are always complaining about something anyway (and I am one-ish). That's why personally I think there should be a gross prize in every competition and why class or category prizes should really come to the fore. The different tees argument is fine (maybe even great) in theory but I think you just wouldn't get the buy-in from golfers conditioned to a lifetime of playing from the same tees as everyone else. Pride alone would prevent it and that's before you'd even think about Joe off 18 who can easily hit it 250yds but can't chip or putt, or John off 6 who can only hit it 200 but chips and putts like a demon. Just can't really see it being practical tbh.

I think WHS in theory is excellent in telling you your current average ability - CONGU was not deigned to do that.

It was too slow to gain in CONGU - so this system is better in that regard.

The problem is - it is almost too fast. You can win an event have a good round - but by literally a few casual games of golf with a mate - non competitive rounds, your handicap can change rather dramatically again - as you shift 2 or 3 good scores out of your record.

I think the thing that people have an issue with is - as it is an average - higher handicaps will have a higher average - and a larger range (STD Deviation) - and this average minus their range , gives them a Net potential , way beyond what is possible for mid to lower handicap players.

It is early days - and it will be an interesting summer. As system is way more established - and there are so many more golfers around - and new ones.

I think my own conclusion is that - WHS is a better system , more enjoyable for tracking your performance , and gives you control and freedom of your time you play. I think it is damaging to Irish Club competitions personally - but in relation to monitoring your own performance for you , it is better.

The fact clubs are moving to an increased emphasis of Cat - means , that WHS is not working for them.

We need to remember that it is not just WHS - and the upper limits that are doing the rounds - and people playing off handicaps in the 30s - winning stuff , whilst not that often - will bring any system into disrepute.

Whilst I never heard of it used before- you could have a competition played based on a % of handclap - 10 % of 30 is 3 ------- 10 % of 10 is 1.

You are competing for % improvement in the round - but we like to think in shots and relative to par 72 - and 36 pts - so that is a bit out there - but somewhat solves the issue of scalability that is often talked about.

Anyway - it is here to stay , not changing - but if clubs are changing their competitions , golfers are stating their disquiet.

Id be one of them play a lot get lessons, range, gym, even swing speed sticks off 17 playing golf years never got lower! Playing partner off 13 plays once a week thats it.. Actually does my head in 😂 I also find a lot of single figure guys who dont play golf much or put in the work so to speak, took golf up at a very young age! as in 8 or 10 years old.

@FixdePitchmark those 5 winners would fall into Division 1, 2, 3, 3, 4 which would be reasonably reflective of the distribution of handicaps in our club. That was the same for a larger sample throughout 2022. There were very few scores of 45 or more. 41 would be typical winning score.

I recall that under CONGU you were expected to exceed your buffer of 33 points 1/8 of your games. This should translate to 1/8 (12.5%) of the field having 33 or more points. Under WHS the scoring generally seems to be much higher with maybe 12.5% equaling 36 points or more. So perhaps the 39 points score that would have won on CONGU now needs to be 42 for the win.