30 million for 2km of greenway!

Nothing would surprise me when it comes to costs of Greenways. It's usually 'ching..ching' all round: reports, landowners, plans, construction access, fancy bridges, insurance. I read now & then about one at Blessington too that started off with a modest proposal, councillors eyes lit up at funds available, expanded into a behemoth to extent that locals started objecting and now all stalled.

Going green is going to make some people A LOT of money.

From the etenders site - expected completion Q2 2025.

Id say the 'greenway surfacing' is a very small cost of below utilities work.

The project consists of a Greenway route along the bank of the Royal Canal over an approximate 2.1km length between North Strand Rd (Newcomen Br) and Phibsborough Rd (Cross Guns Br).

The key aspects of the project can be summarised as follows:

• Construction of a dedicated cycle track and footpath, segregated by a slight level difference;

• The route follows the existing tow paths which will require localised widening. In particular, two sections of the existing tow path will require the installation of a significant length of sheet piles in the canal to facilitate the required widening.

The project involves a number of new structures including:

• A retained earth structure from the tow path to footpath level at Phibsborough Rd;

• A new steel bridge crossing the canal adjacent to Lock Gate 3;

• New concrete ramps;

• New concrete structural ramps/bridges;

• Various minor concrete, masonary and retained earth structures;

Includes 5 no. new signalised toucan crossings or junction signal upgrades to be provided Associated ducting, chambers and cabinets also to be provided as part of the works and Infrastructure as follows;

• Infrastructure for a proposed ESB Networks 110kV circuit is to be provided along the length of the route which include 5 no. ducts and junction bays to facilitate future pulling of cables;

• Replacement of existing public lighting heads along the entire route and associated lighting columns, pole retention sockets, ducting, chambers, ESB mini pillars and power supply connections;

• Replacement of CCTV infrastructure along the entire route

• Installation of 4 no. additional ducts along the entire route;

• A services crossing of the canal at a point east of Lock Gate 3 which is expected to require temporary damming of a short section of the canal.

Removal of existing services including:

• 1.5km of existing gas main and 2.1km of existing CCTV ducting

• The route requires a section of cut into the existing ground level with gas main diversion

TII reckon as it currently stands that standard greenway/cycle infrastructure is costing €4million-€7million per km, with €5.5million being the median figure. Just another reference point for people.

The TII figure I gave takes the latest inflation into account (Feb 2023), which TII reckon has been fairly significant/large.

Edit, the reason they're quoting the 4-7million figures is because it's actually becoming a problem.

The costs balloon when building in a constrained urban environment with existing services.

Did an international cost benchmarking exercise a few years ago in work. One of the biggest indicators for scheme cost is the width of the street. Narrower the street, higher the cost per km, because services are funnelled through a smaller section. Makes sense, and added to the jealousy of typically wider streets they have on the continent.

Unscrupulous people gouging on a construction job in this country, tale as old as time.

Plenty of situations where Greenways are following old railway lines and detour here & there for good reason. No problem elsewhere.

There’s already a path there. Is this ridiculously over engineered, over specced, ie a bells and whistles job? If they were told 10m max was available, could they not produce a perfectly serviceable cycle path?

This is very suspect. Tender is 16.94 million excluding VAT. Add on VAT and we're roughly around 20 million. Where is 10 million euro disappearing to here?

I walked from the convention centre to Kilcock during covid times. The variety of the walk is what makes it interesting. I didn't see any need for improvement but I suspect this is all about making a cycle route for commuters. Nothing wrong with that but smooth, straight greenways are boring for me, maybe not someone commuting to work daily.

Has anyone on this thread actually walked and cycled this route.

Its already paved. Some of this work is effectively through a park.

You need to do nothing to it do enable anyone to commute along it. Its being done to turn it into an amenity.

5 traffic lights on the cycle route. Would expect flyovers for that kind of money

Phase 3 is a more complicated project than just path widening. It’s being built in a confined space in an urban area and, given construction inflation, it would have been much cheaper to build if it wasn’t delayed so much since its approval by councillors in 2015...

... As noted above, a large chunk of the project’s €30.8m price tag is set aside for contingency and risk, nearly €5m and just over €2m respectively.

he Projects’ Business Plan states: “At this stage, the main update to the risk register has been the addition of a risk item associated with inflation; whilst the main contract costs are known, current market conditions give rise to the possibility of emergency relief or ex-gratia payments.”

Only the Coolmine bit is a little tricky on a bicycle. The rest of it is no problem on a bicycle.

But these works are for not that section.

I love that section on the bike!

You might like the Coolmine section as it is - but would you recommend it to a commuter on an e-bike in a suit and tie or a family out for a ride? You can't even push a buggy between Castleknock and Coolmine stations for most of the year and even in dry conditions there are many points where two anythings couldn't pass. That's even before you start bringing kids on bikes and nervous parents into the mix.

Anyway, this isn't the thread about that bit. Clearly here the cost is driven up by using the opportunity to do far more than resurfacing the existing path. I could argue that the money shouldn't be coming from a Greenway budget, but actually doing the work at this time seems reasonable. e.g. installing ducting for future HV cabling is the kind of thing we probably wish we'd done more of over the years, but it's obviously not essential to get an excellent bike path.

Let's be honest, these green ways are really not about nature. More tourists, developments etc etc = less nature.

I've used the Mayo and Waterford ones and the are brilliant resources for everyone, except nature 😁

Maybe it will soon be viable to do a lot more safe cycling in Ireland which would be wonderful.

I remember living near London and there were a load of bridal ways to cycle/walk on. We don't seem to have those here. Was there ever horses in Ireland ? Or did we go straight to EVs 😁

They tend to be way over engineered here, existing trees and vegetation shaved down to nothing. Sterile Elf n safety compliant. Everything has to be manicured, everything a playground for humans it seems. An overgrown rail alignment would be more useful to nature, but that's seen as a 'waste' by both landowners and leisure enthusiasts.

The only thing I've seen even close to a bridleway is a short stretch of greenway near Shillelagh. Low environmental impact gravel surface, not tarmac.

Just picking holes in the cost and the fact that "green" can mean different things to different people.

For me, they are a wonderful resource and I'm happy if they use existing rail lines, canal tow paths, etc. But I'm not happy if they are ripping up a river bank, removing trees etc

Also, I hate they way people have to be cajoled by marketing or personal gain to look after our natural heritage.

Wrong post

It’s far from completed. Passed by on the train earlier, still needs to be properly surfaced. Absolutely right that it’s still fenced off.