Unhappy with owning an EV in Ireland

josip · 23-02-2023 11:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120269120#Comment_120269120

Day trippers. Proper long haulers will do 1000km+ back to back. 😀 And 500kms between toilet breaks wouldn't be unusual in the afternoons/evenings.

willthiswork · 19-03-2023 11:53pm

I have a 2 year old Ioniq and as time goes by I'm getting more annoyed with it! I generally charge at home as I am one of the rare minority (apparently according to this thread!) of car owners who has a private driveway. But the battery range is nowhere near what I was promised when I bought it. The dealers told me that the advertised range was about 330km but would actually be about 300km. Well, 2 years on, if I get 250km at 100% I'm lucky. And that's rarely what my actual range ends up being. So that's super frustrating for me!

The 100% increase is charging costs with the ESB eCar network doesn't help either. I charged it today for three hours at a cost of nearly €12 for 100km :-/

20-03-2023 12:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628723#Comment_118628723

Has anything changed in a year?

NIMAN · 20-03-2023 12:17am

Probably not, although I don't use the irish public charging network, so perhaps I'm speaking out of turn.

I know the government has said money is getting spent to upgrade, but we always hear that line.

n.d.os · 20-03-2023 7:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377858#Comment_120377858

That's quite little range to be honest. Probably more suited to someone who sticks to city driving. Have you considered changing the car? Also, stay away from ESB chargers wherever possible. Ionity is the way to go.

eagerv · 20-03-2023 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377858#Comment_120377858

I would have thought that range would be about correct for the 38kWh Ioniq, I don't think anyone expected over 300km in real world. The battery is only about 35% larger than the Classic 28kWh which would manage perhaps 170-200km.

Excellent efficiency though for the size of batteries.

joe1303l · 20-03-2023 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377858#Comment_120377858

Consider changing it for for a bigger battery EV. You can never have too much range and given you can charge at home, it should almost eliminate the public charging farce. You should get good money for your current car, possibly close to what you paid for it.

willthiswork · 20-03-2023 11:50am

Yeah getting a bigger battery might be my best option. I generally can manage without using the public network but if I want to visit family or drive to Dublin I’m kind of stuck!

Orebro · 20-03-2023 2:48pm

You're at around 250Km at this time of year in Ioniq38, but you'll get close to 300Km in the summer.

pron · 20-03-2023 11:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278336#Comment_120278336

1000km in a day?

Let's assume there's enough road in Ireland to do that reasonably ..

Let's assume an average of 80km/h - That's 12h30m of only driving - and very few cars will actually do 1000km on a tank (despite what the guess-o-meter says)

Okay, that drops to about 9h if I'm looping from Dublin to Galway and back repeatedly on the motorway, but I'm going to be stopping more for fuel (even ICE cars use more fuel at speed)

At that number of hours straight driving, you'd be a danger to yourself and anyone else on the road around you, there's a reason commercial drivers have limited hours.

500kms between toilet breaks, sure - but that's at least 4.5 hours of driving, Dublin to Galway and back effectively ... Toilet break would be the least of my worries on that, but at some point, after 4h driving or so, I'm going to want to stop for food :)

There will be vanishingly few drivers doing that level of motoring daily - that's 300k km in a single year, I'm knocking 65k km off, as it'll be in for service at least every fortnight, and tyres every month or so.

1000km in Ireland:

Letterkenny, Donegal -> Galway -> Cork (via Limerick) -> Wexford -> Dublin -> Letterkenny comes in at 1004km and about 13h30 of driving per Google Maps.

Just to keep things in context

josip · 20-03-2023 11:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381568#Comment_120381568

We'd never do that at home; we do it out foreign.

Also, I think the limits to hours applies to drivers of 3.5t plus or 9 pax, not 'commercial vehicles'.

And funnily enough, the daily limits for those is 9h, which is your motorway calculation above.

Turin to Budapest or Nice to Cambrai would be around 1100 and 11h for more context.

pron · 21-03-2023 12:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381592#Comment_120381592

Fair - however there are also rest and maximum stint rules.

Min 9 hours uninterrupted + Min 3 hours uninterrupted

Rest of minimum 45 mins after maximum 4h30 driving time.

All that in mind, the thread is "Unhappy with owning an EV in Ireland" .. the few times a year you fly to Turin and rent a car to drive to Budapest (per example) aren't (strictly) relevant :)

1000km stints in Ireland are rare.

Normal drivers average 15000km a year, which is less than 50km/day average allowing for a few weeks away etc. Very few EVs won't manage that daily round-trip, even clapped out 2012 Leafs

Now, if we do that as a 350km trip once a week on average instead, sure, you're probably charging or will need one of the newer models with 400+km notional range - but that's achievable in most cases if you're buying a new EV, and even with a 40kW Leaf, it's a fast charge for maybe 30 mins tops on the trip somewhere during a 4-5 hour drive, no big loss while you have a bite to eat.

There'll be edge cases it won't suit, sure, and there's always someone who needs to drive from Letterkenny to Derry via Cork, but you can't keep everyone happy :D

the_amazing_raisin · 21-03-2023 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381592#Comment_120381592

Just to keep things in context, it's worth remembering that the charging networks in Europe are much better than most of Ireland. Spending 30 mins queuing to get on a charger is pretty rare

So charging stops are literally charging stops, that's all. Yeah okay maybe there's an impact of stopping twice instead of once, but is that really so bad? And you arrive a bit fresher as well, so it's not all negatives

I'd be more nervous driving from Tralee to Letterkenney in an EV than from Turin to Budapest

unkel · 21-03-2023 3:03pm

Your man Nyland has shown that in continental Europe, the better EVs are no longer the restricting factor, it is humans and their needs. Several of the EVs he tested can do 1000km in 9-10 hours including stopping to charge. With near zero anxiety if you have a Tesla as there is no queuing at superchargers and no chance they won't work or you don't have the right app or dongle or bank card or phone reception

ELM327 · 21-03-2023 4:08pm

Yes I think the 1000km challenge videos show that now on the top level EVs the man is the limit now, not the car.

DownByTheGarden · 21-03-2023 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622307#Comment_118622307

The lobby group have to be the least effective lobby group in history though.

Where we are now is too many EVs for the infrastructure and too many owners without home charging, so these cars are getting 100% of their charging time on chargers that could be shared between normal owners who only need 5% of their electricity from a public charger. It just chokes the network.

But when you mention problems with EV ownership in ireland you will get a reel of people posting their particular use case with not an inkling that all peoples use cases can be different to theirs. Its got so bad now that when someone posts that they considered, or even did own an EV and moved back to petrol that its like EV owners have been insutled and they must post their own use case again and again, almost as an excuse for owning an EV.

A friend of mine got an EV and it is parked at the charger in Tesco for 4 or 5 hours every single evening. There are other people on a journey who might need that charger and cant get at it. And then he will moan about the price of electricity to charge his car. He should never have got an EV.

waterwelly · 21-03-2023 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383887#Comment_120383887

Home electricity should fall back towards where it was before the war. Might take a while but it will get there.

If public chargers are mostly occupied there is no incentive for these operators to reduce their prices.

EV's are only for people with home chargers, in fact without a big PV array it's hardly worth it at all given the high price of the cars.

Then you have people borrowing money to pay a high price to try get a saving back on fuel.

ELM327 · 21-03-2023 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383887#Comment_120383887

That friend is very silly. Sitting on a charger for 4-5 hours at a tesco every day means he's sitting on the wrong charger and likely bought the wrong EV for his needs.

liamog · 21-03-2023 4:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383913#Comment_120383913

Prices on public chargers at the moment are tied to the high commercial energy rates and forward purchasing contracts. I don't think it's the operators who are banking the high prices right now.

Running an EV without private off-street parking has to be worked into the system. It's not going to be suitable for those who need to charge on an AC charger for 4/5 hours per day (what's that a 200km daily return commute). The average annual mileage here is 17,000km, taking out a few weeks for holidays gives an average week of around 350km. Charging a car for up to 45mins a week isn't the huge burden that people who own driveway seem to think.

innrain · 21-03-2023 6:23pm

I was expecting this. I saw a proposal on FB that only people with driveway should be allowed to own EVs which is not far from the subject. The examples are there to show that in some circumstances is workable and there are solutions. Of course the solutions should be offered by those elected not by people on forums but so far all they are promises.

.... between normal owners who only need 5% of their electricity from a public charger

or

EV's are only for people with home chargers

I kinda feel insulted too. I really thought I'm normal.

also

If public chargers are mostly occupied there is no incentive for these operators to reduce their prices.

Do you think the commercial networks would still exist only with the "normal" owners would buy 5kWh a year? Don't you think they exist because users like me who spend 000's in a year? In a normal economy would not be that the demand brings the supply?

Sorry for insulting you again. I'm going to bring my kid to some training and while she does what she does I'll pop in Lidl across the street and do some shopping and charge ~40kWh while at it. (about 250 km) Then I'll go and still wait 10-15 minutes as she's always late.

waterwelly · 21-03-2023 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384419#Comment_120384419

Nobody is out to insult anybody.

I see the Kia Sportage starts at ~€37000.

I see the Kia EV6 starting at ~€54000.

I'm failing to see why anybody would choose the EV6, pay an extra ~€17000 for the inconvenience and relatively high cost of charging on the public network.

I'm failing to see the logic of it here, I really am.

Tesla start about €45000, a Toyota Corolla starts about €33000, again I just don't see the logic of it, at all.

joe1303l · 21-03-2023 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384622#Comment_120384622

Your point is very valid, there is a huge premium to buying a new EV. In the longer term, you should however save some of that premium in fuel and servicing savings presuming you can charge mainly at home on night time rates. Maybe an E-Niro would be more comparable to a Sportage than an EV6 ? You might also save some polar bears.

waterwelly · 21-03-2023 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384671#Comment_120384671

The discussion was about buying an EV and relying exclusively on the public charging network. As in no home charging.

Charging at home with your own driveway on the night rate a completely different cost benefit payback scenario.

TitianGerm · 21-03-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384622#Comment_120384622

How much is a Sportage when it's specced similarly to the EV6? Or a Corolla when specced the same as a Model 3?

The issue I have with these types of comparisons is they never compare like with like. You wouldn't tell someone who buys a 7 series that you could buy a civic for half the price.

joe1303l · 21-03-2023 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384712#Comment_120384712

If you can’t charge at home, you shouldn’t even consider buying an EV here in Ireland. Public charging is a disaster zone even without considering pricing. An EV6 seems much more upmarket than a Sportage though.

KCross · 21-03-2023 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384622#Comment_120384622

There will always be examples where it doesn't make sense and maybe you are right that the EV6 is a bad buy.

But lets look at another real world example which I posted on another thread....

"An interesting anecdote... I was looking at VW Tiguan prices the other day. VW sold 2600 of those in 2021 and 1500 in 2022. VW sold 3000 ID4's! The market is voting with its feet/cash!

Of the 1500 Tiguan's sold in 2022, 90% of them were diesel (50/50 split between manual/auto). The cheapest diesel Tiguan is €42k for a 122HP manual! An automatic is €48k which is €1k more than a base Model Y which will be its direct Tesla competitor. If Tesla deliver big numbers it would be hard to look past a Model Y vs a Tiguan! Each to their own, of course, but its alot easier to make that decision now after the Tesla price drop."

So, you can compare the cheapest Tiguan, Corolla, whatever and say it makes no sense but the reality is the entry level ICE cars are not competing with EV's. The EV's that are available are much higher spec and the more expensive ICE trim levels accounts for alot of what people are buying, per the above figures so that's a fairer comparison (i.e. compare the Tiguan diesel auto to a Model Y, not an entry level Corolla)

If the entry level Corolla or whatever is your bag then fair enough, its a hard sell then to buy an EV for an extra 5,10,15k when you dont care/value the extras that you get. Manufacturers are targeting the higher end right now, because they can... more profit.