Ireland v England Grand Slam Decider 2023

It was not a black and white decision. I think it was a red but I can also see why there are alternative arguments. Not sure any of that panel are apologists for dangerous play.

I'm like a broken record at this stage - where did I say it was ROG's fault? You're another who is tripping over themselves to defend him while not actually reading my posts.

I am pointing ROG's description of his approach to coaching is a symptom of the issue - I've consistently highlighted the change needs to come from those who make the laws, which is World Rugby.

I'd much rather the game didn't need to shift further but clearly certain coaches, players, pundits, fans still can't wrap their head around what needs to happen to avoid things getting even tougher.

This is exactly what he should have done. Difficult to do it in the heat of the moment. The hope is that players faced with similar scenarios in the future will err on the side of caution to reduce serious head collisions. It will take time. We will never ever eliminate serious head collisions but hopefully we can reduce them. I would like to know how many HIAs we had in the whole 6N and how it compares to previous years.

The problem is that a lot of red cards are in completely random situations, and the chances of a player being in that exact situation again is very rare. Steward stepped up into the line as the ball was loose after being lost forward, and then it was gathered a split second before the collision.

Compare this to something like Porter against NZ last summer. 6'8" Retallick running in a straight line in an upright position from several metres out. Porter chooses to make a high tackle, resulting in a broken cheekbone and putting the opposition player out for several months. Even in the disciplinary hearing, it is deemed that it isn't a red card, due to it being a 'passive' tackle. My argument is that this is the type of tackle that should be disincentivized, because it is about as normal and mundane as a tackling situation gets, and there's no excuse for poor technique, passive or not.

Hasn't really seen that before, definitely looks like there's head contact and that could have seen a card.

ROG absolutely spoke out of both sides of his mouth but when it came down to the straight forward question about coaching he was crystal clear that he didn't feel incentivized to divert coaching time to focus on safer tackle technique in different scenarios in the manner many would expect given the increasing sanctions.

Time and again when there is head contact it is asked by commentators and fans how it keeps happening - many of these deemed as 'accidents' or 'unfortunate'. An element is that coaches, including ROG, aren't coaching players to be more careful.

Instead of multiple threads getting derailed by debates around red cards. It might be handy to have a rolling thread to discuss all these incidents and elements to them?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058289108/the-should-it-or-should-it-not-be-a-red-card-thread/p1?new=1

So I see Freddie Stewart will be before a disciplinary hearing this afternoon and its understood that the English Union will look to have the red card dismissed. I have looked at the incident a number of times and its very clear that Stewart made the decision to turn and use his elbow against the Irish Rugby player. No way was it an accident. He could have kept going the way he was and not turn at all in which case nothing would have happened or he could have let the Irish player hit the front of him but no he used his side and his elbow so it is quiet clearly a red card.

That is exactly my original and continued point.

I don't think ROG deserves respect for being honest, he kept throwing out a bunch of niceties about how important player safety is at the same time. I agree he let the mask slip and was more honest about it than most coaches but plenty of bullshit in there too, which clearly some here latched on to defend him.

I'd argue that some coaches have adapted to the new guidance. You don't regularly see Irish players putting them into a position where there is a risk of a negative outcome. They're either incredibly lucky or coached to use techniques in certain scenarios so they minimize the chance of being penalised (and the opposition injured). You'll never mitigate all risk but improving technique can substantially lower it.

Contrast Ireland's approach to the multiple late/borderline hits from England got away during the game outside of the red card that could have been penalised. As another poster said 'sh1t happens' but you can take steps to put yourself in a position for it to be less likely to happen while also being successful.