The distance debate

That’s VERY surprising, and would suggest that they should indeed be looking at the drivers first!

I'm not sure this will work, let's say Seamus power currently it's it 30 yards on average past Shane Lowry,(insert other golfers of your choice if you don see that scenario) and it's all down to swing speed and technique. Tweak the ball surely the driving distance differential would remain the same. Yes the driver/wedge par 5s are not what we want to see, if a golfer has an eagle putt it would be much more enjoyable to watch if he's played a wood into the green.

For me they need to put the longer hitters optimum landing range a much smaller target,brng in the fairway and rough a these pinch points. But not on all holes leave a handful of risk and reward holes, but make it more about course management

We won't see Augusta or st Andrews changing and that can be ok, the greens in Augusta and bunkers, undulations, never mind the wind at st Andrews or the big name links courses are still enough of a challenge.

My thoughts on this are that amateurs and pros do not play the same game already so limiting pros shouldn't make a difference. If you think your irons, driver, ball and whatever else you can name are the same as Rahms, Rorys or JTs then you are mistaken. Callaway make several 'tour only' driver heads that amateurs cannot buy. JTs irons are one of a kind bespoke titleist MBs, Rorys the same except TM. Wedges are usually handmade for pros and a significant number of pros use golf balls that aren't availabe to the public. Left Dash ProV1s were a popular tour ball that only recently became available to amateurs but there are others that are still tour only. As well as that, Rory uses a 2019 TP5, I believe Spieth is using a 2019 ProV1 and loads of other tour pros use previous versions of a ball that aren't available to the general public. The driver heads are also 'hot', as in they are as close to the CT limit as possible. Amateurs do not get this option. Could go on here but I think the point is clear enough.

To add to that, I get that its nice to compare your round to a pros at the same venue but again you might as well compare a Polo to a Ferrari. You're not playing off the tips and the setup is nowhere near what it would be for a tour event so the idea that you can't compare yourself to pros is correct, but it was fantasy anyway so this doesn't change anything IMO. If you are that concerned about testing yourself against the pros you will be able to buy these pro balls and have at it. Somehow I suspect the amount of players beyond elite amateurs taking up that option will be very low.

Its already proven that tightening fairways and adding rough doesn't overcome the advantage that distance gives you so I don't get why that is being suggested as an alternative. We've heard that for years and its made no difference when courses have attempted it and there is data to support that with SG. Worth keeping in mind that sustainability is a big part of this too. Courses cannot just continue to expand in size and in maintenance costs because manufacturers have developed some new tech.

For anyone against this change i'd like to ask how far is too far? Is 8000 yards too long? What about 10,000? If we continue to allow distance to grow we'll end up with all of the classic courses being obsolete and stuck with horrific PGA only courses purpose built to cater to the pro game. I'd be shocked if anyone wants that for the game. Would love to hear some other suggestions too from those against this change.

Exactly so many people are stuck in their own bubble and not just when it comes to golf.

At my course maybe 7 of the 14 par 4s are driveable off the regular white tees, with the problem a lot worse in winter. Have played with guys who can hit the middle of our 310/320 signature hole with a 3 wood! And they're not leaving to play the PGA Tour any day soon!

Also played with a guy of 12/15ish who hit it to the fringe on a 375 yard par 4 scaring the hell out of the group ahead. Now he was mostly going around just trying to bash the ball as hard as he can, if that's his idea of golf maybe he gives it up of the ball gets rolled back. But there's always long drive and the range if you just want to bash it.

People saying it doesn't need to change would they advocate no restrictions on ball speeds and equipment tolerances?! Because they have always existed, we're just argued over where they should be set and what their objective should be. Protecting the massive investment we've already made on courses alongside ecological concerns especially ongoing water shortages worldwide should be our priority.

Golf as we know and always loved needs protecting right now imo.

but they did implement ball and clubs restrictions 20 years ago

no they were roll back rules, because some clubs became illegal after it for being too hot

the game of golf has changed, you have the likes of nick faldo at 6 foot 4 driving the ball 250 yards, right, others were hitting it further, but yet he won

its the players and the tech/analysis around the game that has brought it on, the number of fat players on tour has diminished

i think he is wrong, when you can measure and get the ball to perfect launch conditions, and the clubs and balls are limited, the only other place left is speed and for all the talk of bryson what has he won, one US open

what score do you think he should have shot? He had an all time amazing putting performance and a bit of luck to get to that score

what would be the upside also? it doesn't really matter either way

the point of the video was to sell clubs, that's it

were taylormade telling you the stealth one was unforgiving last year? no of course not

i can assure you not hitting the middle is still penalising, despite what taylormade say

you just arent hitting it far enough outside the middle

how many people do you think are reaching par 5s in 2 shots?

This may be a bubble, but one of our par 5 is reachable, the other not so much, but having played with in excess of maybe 200 different people, 1 has hit the green in 2 circa 480-500 yards tad uphill

the odd person has made the distance, maybe 3-4

I've met many players who think that's how far they hit it

even on the shorter one, the number who reach are tiny

the general issue is bomb and gouge merchants making mincemeat out of course

if thats not about scoring then what is it?

environmentally, golf could do a lot

I don't see the issue with rolling back the ball. If they were allowed, manufacturers could create a balls and clubs that would go a lot further - so if you have an issue with rolling back the ball, would you be happy to let the manufacturers at it and have unregulated equipment? We're already using "throttled" equipment, so what difference does it make bringing in a little bit more.

Same where I play, two par 5s (par 70) and most younger single digit players are typically going for it in 2 if any sort of decent drive. Depending on the tees it can be anything from a 3 wood to a 5i. I have seen one guy hitting an 8i into one of them, admittedly after a massively wind assisted drive but there are some very long amateurs out there these days. Obviously depends on who you are playing with, i've also played with people who are taking 3 good shots to get anywhere near those same greens, even hitting driver, 3 wood, 3 wood in one case. Older players who have lost their distance but still have their accuracy suffer most from the longer tees in my experience. Some real life data here that makes for interesting reading https://mygolfspy.com/arccos-2021-distance-report/ Its pretty clear that many golfers are playing off tees that are too long for them but i'm not sure what the solution is for that. The USGA tried a 'tee it forward' campaign and it flopped, i'd expect the same reaction here to be honest.

Your talking like 1 in 50 players that length is causing an issue in the amateur game.

You couldn't justify any changes on that basis.

The only reason I'd suggest a change for amateurs is to remove the (stupid word) bifurcation argument.

If the new ball has very limited impact on the vast majority of amateurs [due to vastly lower swing speeds]...it probably is worth considering for the greater good..

These 1 in 50 guys would suffer a bit ...but so what.

Bluenote...your a great striker of the ball and have a hurling background..but I wouldn't be using that par 5 as any reference in the argument...massively elevated tee...wind typically helping..a downhill landing zone on very hard ground.

Most courses have 5 par 5s...about 2 will be reachable and 3 won't...I wouldn't be mad keen to force regulation golf on people..golf is hard enough with rare joys out there ...under regulation is a rare joy for amateurs...and if they can do it, they have hit 2 great shots..

The argument is really about amateurs...I know golfers can be delusional...but again I enjoy watching these 1 in 50 freaks..they would still reach the par 5s with a reduced ball..

Misinterpreting the data there to be fair. The 274 isn't carry distance (Arccos is not a launch monitor, it just tracks the distance between each shot you hit). If you look at where I see must long club golfers distance (I don't mean carry) i'd have looked at ages 20-49 and under 10 h'cap the distances are 238-251 total which is about what I'd expect for most players. Looking at my old arccos stats for my last driver I averaged 261 total distance, my swing speed is 105ish and a good strike will carry 250yds, have had drives that travelled over 300 yards but i'm not dumb enough to think I can carry a ball that far and that is my normal distance. I'd agree that a lot of people overestimate their distances but i've had multiple trackman fittings and sessions as well as arccos data and am 95% confident thats about right for me. I also play with players who regularly outdrive me when we both hit good shots, not sure why thats hard to believe to be honest.

I'm not actually in favour of the amateur using the MLR ball at this stage but it also wouldn't bother me in the slightest if we did adopt it, i'd expect it'll happen sooner or later in any case.

most don't have a hope of hitting a 280 yard drive and a 220 yard 3 wood, that's why GIR is 3