Have you guys noticed that more and more young men are kind of dropping out of the dating scene?

Linda_G · 19-01-2023 10:06pm #1

I know this sounds weird but from what I have seen is that a lot of young guys in their 20's have kind of given up on dating as they get older. None of these guys are horrible looking, just average or so, decent job, and some are the rising star. I noticed many guys avoid unneeded interactions with women at College.

If I had to make a guess it would be primarily because of the internet, since more and more guys can play videogames or spend time on netflix than socialize. I don't have any hard numbers on this, just has been my own observance, have you guys noticed anything similar?

20-01-2023 1:38pm

I'd be in that group minus decent job...

Although it's not because of the internet, video games, or tv and movies. The only obession I may have is music. I'm always listening to something (The Lonely One by Alice Deejay right now xD). That's not hurting my chances with women though.

I'm 21 next month and it's getting less and less appealing. I only went out with someone last weekend. We went out previously in October. Went tits up twice. Fvcking nutcase. Called the Gardaí in Mullingar to ask wtf to do if she shows up at my family's home. There have been many other (ableit less severe) issues in the past too. It's just not worth the brain strain.

Will be sticking to casual affairs for the foreseeable future.

Esel · 20-01-2023 8:43pm

Most posters here would not be looking to date young men, so probably wouldn't have noticed... 😀

JupiterKid · 22-01-2023 7:43pm

I'd wager that it might have a lot to do with the dating/hookup apps like Tinder etc. where young men might find the pool of men looking for women very large and the ladies seemingly very picky, which can really dent confidence.

Also the general role of "social" media and the Internet. Lots of young lads seem to give out here on Boards that young women, particularly native Irish women, are extremely picky and have very high expectations of potential dates. So many may not bother if they feel it is too much hard work and heartbreak involved.

The aftermath of the Harvey Weinstein scandal and the "me too" movement has also made many men very wary of chatting women up on nights out lest it be construed as lecherous or bordering on sexual harrassment.

And the aftermath of the Covid-19 pandemic and the prolonged social isolation won't have helped matters in this regard either.

I would hate to be a straight young lad on the dating game these days - it seems like a complete minefield.

22-01-2023 7:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143359#Comment_120143359

It is. Painful.

Timlin2005 · 26-01-2023 9:05am

This is the biggest disservice Feminism is doing to young women. It is giving a message to pursue career and delay marriage/children for as long as possible. Most women who go this route don't realize it till it's to late and her beauty/fertility value have declined to the point she can only get 2nd and 3/4th level pickings in the dating market.

However, if you are single and in your 20's know your going to be hitting the wall soon. Your going to become less and less desirable to the dating male population.

ancapailldorcha · 26-01-2023 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143359#Comment_120143359

I booted up Bumble recently and got nowhere. Literally nowhere on it. I'm at an age where I really need to be getting a return on any investment I make. Spending hours a week on an app with no results is just a waste of time.

I think the apps have encouraged a very selective mentality since there's no chance of falling for someone based on wit or person-to-person banter or such. It's all very sterile and dehumanising IMO.

I've gotten to a point where I feel like a partner would just be a complication at this point. I'm quite happy without all of the drama and just doing my own thing.

H.Dowling · 05-03-2023 9:51am

We were talking about this at University the other day. My University Course has 80% female and men kind of have to be stick together whenever we get put into team assignments. I don't think many of us want to go into relationships. There's a lot of things I have heard that it's a negative experience. My classmate recently left his girlfriend for a younger woman.

kerryjack · 06-03-2023 6:00pm

I know a few lads in there 30s that are content enough and don't seem to be in any panic about getting hitched up, its a handy life in my opinion, luckily enough now in 2023, society is not judging anyone that chooses the handy life. I persume they can get there kicks out of only fans for a small subscription and nothing wrong with that. This whole 2 parent family working full time and juggling kids school, and activities and trying to keep up with the jones is hard work. There is rewards of course when kids are small and fun and show your loads of love and fun. But again as they get older there needs and expectations become greater its a real challenge now these days with the cost of living crises and if I was ye young bucks I wouldn't be in any great panic.

iptba · 19-03-2023 2:32am

This blog post which links to the 2 links below suggests there may be something to the original poster's question:

The Decline of Intimate Relationships

Here I look at the data for England and Wales on marriage and cohabitation, and also a recent Pew Research survey of dating and relationship status in the USA.

For those who would lament the decline of intimate relationships, there are disconcerting signs of this in the younger age range (under 30). My review of marriage and cohabitation is effectively an introduction to the Pew survey which seems to provide the clearest picture of the declining interest in intimate relationships amongst the under 30s. But most revealing are the comments left by viewers of a CNN programme which presented the findings of that Pew survey. I include a sample of those comments at the end of this article. They suggest a picture of a broken society.

http://empathygap.uk/?p=4311

For Valentine’s Day, 5 facts about single Americans

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/

Why the rate of single men in the US looking for dates has declined

https://youtu.be/vK4y6C1Uuhw

Yellow_Fern · 19-03-2023 4:55am

Id love to see some numbers on this from Ireland. How common is it? What is the trend and how much?

cms88 · 20-03-2023 12:24pm

IMO men don't want the hassle. While it would be called out as not being true etc the fact is some,not all, women want it all kids. house etc and when they get and maybe realise it's not all it's cracked up to be the blame is put on the man.

In the summers of 2020 and 21 i seen a lot more Irish families around as they couldn't travel etc I noticed so many men with kids who just looked so so unhappy. I'm not saying it was because of the kids as such, but maybe a mix of the supposed norm not being what they actually want. Once kids are added into the mix it's really too late at that stage to go back.

So maybe younger men are seeing this and they just don't want that life for themselves.

20-03-2023 3:12pm

I got off the dating apps a few weeks ago and to be honest, I feel better for it. What I want in a relationship, I can't really get at the moment. Hard to be appealing when you've yet to make something of yourself.

I'm in somewhat of a unique position for my age in that I've made sure that I can't have kids. Not something I want, nor have I ever wanted. I see what it does to people. Plus I can barely look after myself, let alone an 18+ year financial, physical, and mental commitment.

Going back to the apps, my self worth was just non existent when I was on them. All of these superficial prerequisites you have to meet is really bad for your (or at least my) mental health.

My two cents anyway.

Tee_ · 22-03-2023 10:46am

Six out of 10 young men are single. Young men should wait until they're 30 when the odds turn in their favour on dating younger, more attractive women. If he has a good job by that stage, he will gain more power.

A woman I know told me dating got very harder after she turned 30. She says before 30 she had lots of options and had interest from men. Now she said, nobody cares anymore as she's 33. And she found no man interested in pursing a long-term relationship even after trying for 3 years. She said all other women she knows after 30 have the same issue. For women after 30, it becomes harder getting serious relationships because you have you less options as Men tend to be attracted to younger women in their 20's. So many women make the mistake of wasting their 20's on their career and rejecting genuine Men in the hope that they "deserve better" but by the time they hit the wall at 30, it's nearly always too late to find a Man by that stage because the pool of eligible Men rapidly shrinks.

growleaves · 22-03-2023 11:09am

@JupiterKid 'The aftermath of the Harvey Weinstein scandal and the "me too" movement has also made many men very wary of chatting women up on nights out lest it be construed as lecherous or bordering on sexual harrassment.'

That is being very timid.

Just don't touch a woman physically and the chances of facing some kind of accusation from a club/pub interaction are essentially nil.

Most likely these men don't want to face eye-rolls, rude dismissals and other ways of being shot down (in public).

There's a reason men and women hide behind app screens.

But an ordinary man can be screened out electronically before he has a chance to speak.

Its better to go out imo. Tenative eye contact, an initial 'Hi!' and chance conversations are better ways to meet someone than spamming bored girls on social media.

cms88 · 23-03-2023 7:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386887#Comment_120386887

imo Irish women have higher options of themselves than women from other countries.

This is why imo you see one of the phrases that annoys me a lot. The ''He's punching above his weight'' line.

Peregrinus · 23-03-2023 7:59am

I think a lot of this has to do with the rise of internet dating. It has changed the dating scene in a number of ways.

First, it's inefficient. Personal encounters (at parties, through friends, through common interests, etc) have a much better "conversion rate" into dating relationships than do online matches. For both men and women, the proportion of swipes that turn into actual dates is miniscule; the investment of time required to get one date is massive, compared to more traditional methods.

This isn't helped by the fact that, according to the research, both sexes tend to swipe on people who would be judged significantly hotter than they themselves would be judged. As a result the rate of favourable matching swipes is low. I'm sorry to have to tell you that the hotties that you are interested in are interested in people who are way hotter than you. (Plus, if you're a woman, you have to wade through truckloads of unsolicited dick pics.)

So, why has online dating become so dominant? I think the answer, or part of it, is because it is safe. I don't mean safe as in, you're not going to go out with someone you barely know only to find that they rape you/accuse you of rape/hit you over the head and dismember you with a blunt hacksaw. I mean safe as in emotionally safe; you can explore at least the initial stages of a connection with somebody without investing, showing or risking too much; you can decide how much to show and how much not to show; you can withdraw easily at any time; etc. Embarrassment-free flirting; turns out we quite like it.

The problem is, we like it so much that it is becoming the only option. Other avenues are closing off. In the past, if you flirted with someone in a bar, say, when this wasn't particularly welcome, you would be regarded as annoying or, if you didn't pick up the "bugger off!" cues, a bit insensitive. Now, you are more likely to be seen as downright creepy, because people don't expect to be flirted with in bars; they think that should happen online. Which means that people are more cautious about flirting in bars; it's harder to do than it used to be. And, if you do it, it's less likely to be well-received. Some people blame this on the "me too" movement or, more generally, on "feminism" but I think that's wrong; it's a cultural change driven by the growth of dating apps.

There is one bit of good news, though. The investment of time and the relatively slow pace of progress involved in dating apps means that, if and when they do get to dating, people tend to know one another a bit better. The result: if you do get to form a relationship through a dating app, statistically, it will last longer than a relationship formed in a more traditional fashion.

growleaves · 23-03-2023 2:25pm

@Peregrinus "Now, you are more likely to be seen as downright creepy, because people don't expect to be flirted with in bars; they think that should happen online. Which means that people are more cautious about flirting in bars; it's harder to do than it used to be. And, if you do it, it's less likely to be well-received."

Your post should come with a health warning.

Which clubs/pubs do you hit up on a typical weekend?

Many women go out to meet men, and they will be doing exactly that in just a few hours (Thursday night).

Women who are afraid of rejection, and of appearing 'slutty', must wait for men to make the first move.

A woman who likes the look of a guy will throw out every non-verbal signal known to existence to get him to speak to her: staring at him, licking her lips, 'accidentally' bumping into him, asking him the time or some other inane question.

Every other girl in the place sees what is going on: the girl is throwing herself at the guy.

Piercing this veil of deniability and reading between the lines is part of becoming socially aware.

This is going on all the time, in bars and clubs up and down the country and in every other country.

Timid people are going to magnify their fears about rejection and retreat to the apps. Cautious=timid

Sn@kebite · 29-03-2023 11:16pm

@cms88

Women at 30yo are going to be pushing for kids if she wants them. That will panic a lot of men (me included), as she has a ticking biological clock in her head.

So younger women are more likely to get interest from men most likely due to the fact she will more likely NOT be thinking of kids (yet). Men most likely will need to trust her and theres less time to get to know an older woman if wshe wants kids soon, he doesn't want to end up a deadbeat and in the family courts draining his bank a/c. I think men know this but just don't say it.

The other aspect to all this is men are often expected to pay/organize pretty much everything on dating and I think men couldn't be arsed lately. Other websites are filled with women in their late 20s/30s panicking about not being hitched.

Fred Astaire · 30-03-2023 12:44am

As a single man who enjoys travel, is happy to travel solo and does so regularly, to go to the cinema solo etc - dating just seems like such unnescessary hassle. There are times where I can feel a bit lonely and think, it'd be nice to have a partner. Maybe 20% of the time - particularly around Christmas. But the majority of the time, I'm happy that I can make whatever plans I want, do whatever I want, when I want.

The majority of my friends are settling down now, and I could be massively wrong here, but to me it just seems like they've done so because it's just the next phase in life. I don't think any of them are extremely happy. Again, that's just my impression from the outside looking in. Certainly on the rare time I join them on a night out (as I'm not a heavy drinker), they act like they are "off the leash" for the night. If I end up with one of them with their other half, a good amount of the night is spent bickering. I feel like they've rushed into things purely because it's the done thing to get into a relationship and start a family. Some already have kids, others can't be far off. And here's me, actually having an occasional internal debate on whether it's something I want or not, whether I'd be a good father, whether this is a world I'd want to bring a child into, whether I could accept the most significant change in lifestyle I'll ever have, or the lifetime responsibility - which is probably more thought than my friends have put into it as they've hurtled through the socially accepted stages in life without even stopping to breathe. And at my age, I feel like kids is going to be something on the minds of a LOT of my potential partners.

I'm early 30's and looking at home ownership and honestly that is the biggest drive towards finding a partner for me, because without one I'm looking at an apartment for the rest of my life. But every so often when I think of firing up the apps, I remember what an exhausting ordeal it is. The last time I went on, I had the stomach for it for about a day, but that day did seem like it would lead to something. I'm not one for small talk usually, which holds me back, but I am decent looking so I do get a good amount of matches. But all the same I ended up chatting to what seemed like a genuine girl, very attractive, got off bumble onto whatsapp after I gave her my number and left the ball completely in her court - because I don't think it's fair to ask a stranger for their number after a day or two of chatting, if I'm comfortable enough to give them mine, I will, and maybe they'll be comfortable enough to use it. I'm not one for being able to juggle multiple engaging conversations, so I guess I have a problem in that I don't keep my options open enough and play the field as I'm supposed to on these apps.

Anyway, I was as respectful as possible, put no expectations on her - like I get that in 2023 it can be intimidating for a girl to meet up with a randomer off the internet. I understand that she is probably getting bombarded with unsolicited dick pics, or overly pushy/forward lads. So I'm then trying to find the balance between trying to not be that, but still trying to create a bit of sexual tension so she isn't thinking that I'm too friend-y..

We arrange to meet up, just for coffee, in her town, which I obviously organised and would have ended up paying for, everything going fine as that's getting closer, until one day, nothing. Ghosted. Just wasted a week getting excited about somebody, for them to decide that I wasn't even worth letting down easily. It's not nice, and it really makes me not bothered about getting back on the apps. It's the lack of respect and human decency after I made sure to give so much respect, that really annoys me. I hate how transactional it is, that people seem to forget that there's another human being on the other end. That was around October last year, so I'll probably get the urge to have another go in May, and have the same crap happen again. I absolutely understand why men would be less and less interested in dating, tbh. Bit of a ramble there.

Strumms · 30-03-2023 1:21am

Thing about that scenario…^ if the tables were turned , so if the guy, you or whoever behaves like that, it’s the guy being a prick. It’s not seemingly frowned upon for the girl to be engaging in that of that kind of behaviour… “ ahh she just wasn’t interested, it happens “ will be the justification…

cms88 · 30-03-2023 7:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418054#Comment_120418054

100% agree. If a man says they don't want kids etc they're selfish etc Yet it's just as if not more unfair on people, mostly men, who get guilted into having kids only to have them used against down the line.

cms88 · 30-03-2023 7:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418150#Comment_120418150

Ghosting is a very big issue nowadays. If truth be told it's actully women who are doing it more but as you say it's justified for them. It's only an issuw when it's the other way around.

magicbastarder · 30-03-2023 7:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120390409#Comment_120390409

If I was the conspiratorial type, I might wonder if it's in the interests of the app developers to not quite deliver perfect matches anyway. They'll do better from serial daters than they would from providing matches which work first time (I say this as someone who has never used such an app though - but my wife has several colleagues who use them and they aren't having much luck, though in one case that colleague should come with a health warning on those apps)

30-03-2023 10:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418305#Comment_120418305

Honest question, who is saying its justified for women to ghost and act like how is described here? Or is it just in heads that women get away with it?

Fred Astaire · 30-03-2023 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418150#Comment_120418150

What really irked me about that story was at every opportunity, I gave her so many easy chances to back out.

I gave her my number when I was getting rid of the app, told her I had a good time chatting and would like to hear from her, but if she didn't want to message me on whatsapp, that was totally fine. No pressure. But she messages.

Same approach with the coffee - at pains to reiterate that I was putting her under no pressure, if she wasn't comfortable then no problem, we can just leave it at a nice chat on the app and then whatsapp and go our seperate ways. Nope she agrees to the date.

I couldn't have been more easygoing about the whole thing, I was 0% demanding, expected nothing, kept everything low pressure, tried to remove any sense of expectation from the entire thing, gave her repeated opportunities to back out - but she decided the best approach was to keep ploughing on every time I gave her an easy out, and then, just 1-2 days out from the meeting, ghost.

In real life, I can adjust my demeanour to someones body language, I can sense how comfortable they are with me, when to push, when to not. But the real life situations where I used to do that, were mainly bars and I'm not really into drinking anymore. Mainly at sporting events or a night out maybe once every 2 months - but even at that, I'd have around 4 pints and call it. So that pushes me towards the apps.

On the apps, I don't have those tools to judge which makes it harder. So my default is going to be to keep things extremely relaxed, not pushy, low pressure etc, until I can actually meet the person. And then they throw that back in my face by ghosting. It just makes me not arsed with trying again. I'm happy enough in my life without the drama of dating and I can stomach the lonliness for the 20% of the time I feel it in a year.

cms88 · 31-03-2023 7:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120418773#Comment_120418773

Well from my experience it's the case. A woman can ghost etc a man and it's not a problem but when it's the other way around it is. You see a lot of podcasts etc about it women complaining about being ghosted etc Now in those cases there's more than likely another side to the story you don't hear. From that you hear a lot about how men don't threat women with respect because of it. Bit when asked about when he happenes the other way around it's passed off.

kerryjack · 31-03-2023 7:57am

It was easy back in the day 2 people would just get hammered and probably end up in bed, some drunken sex, awkward moment following morning might get the phone number, might not,might not want it. Might even get the breakfast,fun times.

31-03-2023 7:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422141#Comment_120422141

In your experience who is it coming from as in who is justifying it, guys or other women? I ask as im not single and neither are most of my friend group/ family but when we were and were dating using apps etc ghosting was very looked down upon be it from women or men. And both got equally called out on it.

cms88 · 01-04-2023 9:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422163#Comment_120422163

Well i would know a few females who would do it quite often, well they did not sure about now, and them and other female finds would see no issues with it. However i would have been with them and heard them talked about when it would happen to them nd it became a big issue. But like anything i'm sureit happens both ways.

It happened to me and it's a story i'm slow to really tell as i'm not quite sure how or where to tell it.

Dickie10 · 21-02-2024 11:29pm

just turned 40 last summer, over the last few months I have very close to made up my mind that a relationship is not something i want in forseeable future. i think im at peace with that.

taxAHcruel · 22-02-2024 10:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800790#Comment_121800790

A bit older than you. Strangely enough in my 20s I came to a similar conclusion. I completely gave up on the idea of pursuing a relationship. I changed my focus to some new personal and social goals. I essentially became "MGTOW" long before I ever heard the phrase "MGTOW".

And I was not long in that new way of life before I suddenly found myself in a relationship and have been in it ever since :) Whether this was coincidence - some consequence of my new way of life - or that I was not giving off "Im desperate for a relationship" vibes any more I do not know.

But effectively coming to peace with not wanting or seeking a relationship was the best choice I ever made to get into a relationship.

That said though if my current relationship ever ended for any reason - break up or death or anything - I would say I am done. I have no interest sexually or romantically in pursuing another relationship ever. For a multitude of reasons not least of which is that everything I read on this forum about the modern day dating scene sounds horrific to me.

As much as I love Love and love Sex I would be perfectly content to go the rest of my life without either rather than pursue either again.

Ekerot · 25-02-2024 2:02pm

As someone diagnosed with ASD I think it's very unlikely I'll ever be in a relationship with a women - I prefer my own space far too much to really move in with someone or something.

I'm ambivalent on kids - don't really love or hate them, but I don't think I'd make a good father either honestly.

Most women deep down I think are put off by the ASD thing as well. It makes me seem "defective" in their eyes and not worth pursuing.

Padre_Pio · 25-02-2024 4:10pm

The belief that 80% of women are chasing 20% of men has been proven true in a few studies.

In my limited enough experience, men get more attractive with age, as women are attracted to financial stability and maturity.

Women get less attractive, as men are attracted to looks and ability to have children.

Nature is kind to women, time is kind to men.

Have you guys noticed that more and more young men are kind of dropping out of the dating scene?

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