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Lugnaquilla zig zag route closed due to assault by dog owner

  • 22-03-2023 6:19pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭


    Really unfortunate to have access revoked as it is one of the best hikes in Wicklow IMO. I have to say though I agree with the farmer with regard to dogs on the mountains. I have seen dogs off the lead worrying sheep, with the owner of course trying to excuse it by saying "he is never normally like this". It seems the farmer has had issues in the past with dogs worrying sheep but the assault was the final straw.

    Post edited by Tabnabs on


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Mo Ghile Mear


    This doesn’t surprise me. The level of arrogance and sense of entitlement of some walkers is astonishing. I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen people with dogs on land with very visible “no dogs “ signs. Or off lead when it says “dogs on leads only”. Or parking ignorantly and leaving their litter. Part of the problem is that the chance of getting caught is very small, as farmers have more to be doing than patrolling their fields. So they depend on peoples’ own cop on. But that seems to be in short supply. I hope the low life is prosecuted..and that other landowners don’t feel they have to block access to the beautiful places we love to hike.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Exactly. I would wonder how much of it is due to pure ignorance though. We are allowed walk many of these trails purely based on the good will of the landowner (often a farmer). Dogs, even cuddly ones like Labradors, can get quite excited when they see sheep and start chasing them. This is very stressful for the sheep, particularly around the time they are pregnant and can often lead to them aborting the lamb. A lot of it could also be the general Irish attitude of "rules are for other people".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Labradors are big powerful dogs and I wouldn't call them cuddly.

    Ignorance is not an excuse. Next time the farmer will be out with a rifle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I hope the two scumbags who assaulted the landowner causing the closure of this walkway are known locally. They have ruined a nice amenity for local people due to their vile entitled behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    In your opinion and as for your second point which has no bearing on the comment no farmer will be rushing anywhere with a rifle.

    Before your expected response. I don't think dogs should be anywhere near a working farm on or off lead.

    Shame to see Pat Dunne have to suffer the ignorance of some individuals, I'm sure this is just the first of many instances.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    They're cutesy, fluffy, small little dogs?

    They're dangerous if off lead and not under control. Potentially lethal.

    And yes if constant infiltration of these fur babies threatens a farmers livelihood, on private land, They're entitled too, with obvious due care and deligence to the fur mammys.

    Good that you mention they shouldn't be there. Do you let your dog off lead?

    It won't be alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,532 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Also dogs cause the same issues with wildlife not just farm animals, especially during breeding season.

    It's easy to forget about wildlife. And people are getting more and more dogs.

    "Worry" is a stupid word too. It does not describe the damage and harm being done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Right, yes of course. I meant cuddly in comparison to some other breeds. There was a pit bull off the lead in the park I run in one Sunday morning. It was starting to get almost aggressive with an older man who was also out for a run. I confronted the owners and they course said its all fine, he's great etc, typical sort of entitled behavior. Anyway, I digress, I wanted to point out what I meant. Of course a labrador is very dangerous for sheep.

    I don't mind dogs as such, but wouldn't anthropomorphise fur babies like some people. I would view them more in a utilitarian way, probably like a farmer would. I don't own a dog myself. I get fairly pissed off with lots of the entitled owners flinging bags of poo onto trees rather than bringing the bag to the bin, probably even worse than those not cleaning up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Another very valid point. Dogs are dangerous to wildlife, particularly nesting birds. There are signs in Glendalough that dogs should not be off the lead, the majority of people still have them running around. "Worry" is just the word used to describe it, it comes from an old word meaning to grab by the neck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    They aren't dangerous to humans?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Mo Ghile Mear


    The landowner seemed to be a very tolerant accommodating man in the interview on RTE. He had overlooked a number of incidents where he was verbally abused (on his own property). But there’s only so much you can put up with. I think most people would support his decision to cut off access, even though it’s a huge loss to the hiking and the local community.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Lets not confuse entitled behaviour with common assault.

    Entitled behaviour is somebody pushing in a queue or attention seeking. This isn't that. This is just crime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    This case was assault. The farmer had to deal with cases of entitlement everyday. Entitlement is bringing your dog onto the mountain when it is explicitly forbidden.



  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭fillup


    Last time I was cominf down from the zig zags I was walking back to the car and I could see a family at the start of the trail with an animal on a lead

    I was debating whether or not to tell them that dogs weren't allowed, you'd have to be willfully blind not to see the No Dogs signs

    But as I got closer I saw that they didn't have a dog, they'd a feckin cat on the lead

    And they were bringing their cat for a walk


    I guess cats don't have a history of worrying sheep



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Saw someone's big black 'fur baby' attacking a sheep, pulling and dragging it around like it was a rag doll a few years back. If I hadn't shooed it off the sheep was done for.

    Not a stray either, he had a nice red collar on. 'Ah but my doggo wouldn't harm a fly...etc'

    People really have gone soft in the head over their furry replacement children these last few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Melodeon


    Cats pose their own danger to sheep, in the form of their internal parasite Toxoplasma gondii, part of whose lifecycle causes Toxoplasmosis in sheep. It causes abortion and infertility in ewes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭xl500


    Not at all surprised at this I have been walking all my life in Ireland and it's only in the last decade this sense of entitlement had got so bad I regularly see people with dogs on walks where they have to pass signs that say no dogs

    I was on croagh Patrick last year and saw several people with mutts and it is very clearly signposted no dogs but what can you do people just don't care and if you challenge them all you get is abuse I'm afraid it's again the few rule breakers that are going to ruin it for the rest of us I predict we will now see more landowners closing off access and who could blame them

    Such a pity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭xl500


    I was in glendalough a while back and an idiot had a pit bull and he had a rope over a branch and the pit bull was latched onto the rope with his mouth and the idiot would pull the dog up in the air presumably to strengthen it's jaw muscles beggars belief in a major public amenity



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    There is no policing of any of this. Completely useless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 44 topal


    The government should step up and give these farmers a payout. We shouldn't be relying on their enormous good will over the years in the face of some outright thugish behavior to keep rights of way open.

    Compensate them for the loss of access to grazing for their sheep and make these lands a national park rather than a sheep ranch. It will give natural vegetation a chance to grow again too..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Or maybe just enforce the rules with proper dog wardens. It isn't just sheep, it is also wildlife too. Deer and goats have been attacked in Glendalough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭TheAnalyst_


    Simple solution. These should be state owned national parks with no sheep or agriculture. Sick of having essentially hobby farmers dictate our use of mountains.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    What about wildlife? Get rid of all that so people can walk their dogs? Glendalough is a national park and dogs are not allowed off the lead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    I have seen one national park where the 'dogs on leads' signage has been actually vandalised by people who thought rules didn't apply to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Other countries, esp in Scandinavia, have a right to roam and don't need to be policed, because people actually behave themselves like adults.

    But not us. No.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,824 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    The simple solution is people respect the rules and regulations while they are going about their daily business, whether that be parking a car, dumping their rubbish or going for a walk.

    There are far too many people who have a blatent disregard for rules, thinking they don't apply to them.

    As some one once said, this is why we can't have nice things! (Some idiot doesn't follow the rules or behaves like a selfish clown)

    Blaming farmers or specifically this farmer is just silly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,125 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Dogs are wildlife. We need to introduce some predators for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Mo Ghile Mear


    A lot of Irish people seem to have a bad attitude to rules, whether it’s speed limits, parking, littering, dog regulations etc. It’s all about how can they get around the regulations rather than follow them. And then they brag about how they’re not going to be told what to do 😒.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭HerrKapitan


    A bit of a knee-jerk reaction IMHO. Setting up of trail cctv to identify the suspects would be a better step.

    The sad part is is that this <mod snip> is going to still find ways of walking the dogs up there and it is only the law-abiding hikers that are being punished.

    Post edited by Tabnabs on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    How would you like to be verbally abused and then assaulted on your own property, would you brush that off so lightly?

    It's his patch, he can do what he likes with it. Open it up to people or close it if it comes to that. He doesn't have to put up with other peoples' bullsh1t.

    Post edited by Tabnabs on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    Its Ireland - theres a healthy disrespect for rules.

    Like with the Bray - Greystones cliffpath, a sign saying a route is closed.. it doesnt work.

    People still climb over the gate, with kids too.

    This man needs to secure his property, put in a big mesh gate, backed up with a few big fridges to block it fully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 44 topal


    I can't blame him for doing so one iota after the way he was treated.

    It does however raise the issue of how precarious the access to some of our national parks and amenities is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    Exactly!

    And these farmers whinging about sheep being "bothered" and "worried"... oh yes let me get my tiny violin out for them.

    These chaps only pretend to care about animals. They're quite happy to murder little baby lambs for the dinner table, but whinging about the occasional sheep getting harassed. There should be CPO's for these lands to create national parks. They know full well that this could become a possibility in the future, which is why they give conditional access to hikers.

    And I'm not defending bad dog owners either btw. Most dog owners I see, even with dogs off leash, are not causing a problem for anyone. As usual it's a small handful of careless idiots giving everyone else a bad name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Responder XY


    Two separate issues at hand here

    1) assault is wrong. I hope the perpetrators are caught and brought to justice. There is simply no excuse.

    2) this country needs to move forward when it comes to maintenance of and access to areas of national beauty. Frankly the sheep do far more damage than dogs. Government needs to work with farmers to remove sheep and agriculture from sensitive areas like this and pay them to maintain and support the natural environment. Access should always be allowed to those who behave responsibly. That would include walking the dog once it's under control (for most that's permanently on a lead)



  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Drifter100


    There is a distinction between common land and private property. My brother in law has land in the Dublin mountains where he lives with his family. There is no end to the amount of people walking through his property, some even looking in windows and so on. If you even ask these "hikers" can I help you, generally the answer is " No, I`m just going for a walk " and they carry on with this entitled air about them. He is fairly laid back but if it were me I would be telling them to get lost, its my property and you cant be here

    The common land is a separate issue, that is owned by the state and a farmer can have grazing rights which is all part of the law of our land. While you can walk on this land and use right of ways you cannot walk across private property



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,532 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Summary of the countryside code from across the water.

    It's not complicated.

    Until some people make it complicated for everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,445 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There are sheep killed every week by dogs off leashes. Often 10 or 20 at a time, the surviving sheep are never good again after the ordeal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,445 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They are hiking in pure wilderness usually and there are plenty of issues there as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,445 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    This is nonsense. What do you think would happen if there weren't hill farmers managing the land? Walkers wouldn't be long complaining when the undergrowth is waist high, they be used to having nice handy hillsides to walk across.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Such as?

    Here I've seen the remains of parties at beaches incl broken bottles. Broken bottles. On a f**king beach.

    Campsites in national parks, rubbish strewn all around, whatever about it not being allowed and the risk of a wildfire, zero effort at cleaning it up.

    Tourist towns, during school hols and good weather, pavements are plastered afterwards with dog sh1t. Bagged and unbagged dog sh1t going in and out with the tide.

    A layby where people just fcuked their rubbish over the ditch, there was a calf in there, chewing on a dirty nappy.

    A way marked trail up a mountain. Someone brought a coffee cup up with them and just left it after them, and not just dropped it, purposefully shoved it into a hollow in the moss in the forest.

    This boils my piss. We are a lazy shiftless race.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Nonsense, you know and I know it's never going to happen.

    Whatever about 'hobby' farmers, wasn't this man up to recently accommodating what is a 'hobby'?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,761 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    An image of the "alleged"(!) assault is doing the rounds on twitter for anyone who wants to see the person.

    Post edited by Tabnabs on


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭thehairygrape


    Don’t know this route but it’s such a shame. Seems like a nice man. Can’t blame him for stopping access. Shame on that attacker.

    A guide told me years ago he was always friendly with the local farmers, not least because they were the ones who knew the land and would rescue them if they got in to trouble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,588 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    i assumed it was parody , surely no one is like that in real life .


    or maybe they are



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Who would have taken that? Don't look like no 'traveller' anyway as alleged above here. Just some pig ignorant thicko.

    Post edited by Tabnabs on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,201 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    Now that the photo is doing the rounds online hopefully he will be caught and prosecuted for assault and trespass.

    Like the woman who tripped and fell on the boardwalks a few years ago and tried to sue, these people don't seem to appreciate that we share the mountains, and thoughtless actions like this can impact access for thousands of people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    There was a proposed new footpath very near where I live one of the things the farmers were told was if they allowed the footpath they would have to have insurance to cover it. If the state covered it fine but why pay to allow people to use your land?

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    You have obviously never tried walking over the farmer's land that borders the Horseshoe in Gleniff Co. Sligo.



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