Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I can see there being a real issue here over the next 12 months as rates increase, mortgage affordability is going to be an issue for a lot of people and this country does not do house repossessions in any meaningful way if this had come at any other time we may of seen a blip but when you add in the cost of living pressures, energy crisis and homeless crisis this is going to be a real test for the lads in government. What do they do? You only have to look at the eviction ban to see that no matter what decision they make its going to cause a knock on effect. I would hazard a guess most on here knows someone living in a house they have just stopped paying the mortgage and with our legal system it enables them to stay put ad infinitum, leaving the banks on the hook for a mortgage that is not getting paid and an asset they cannot repossess. This before even looking into the abyss that is the commercial property sector.

We wll also see a lot more properties coming on stream to buy (maybe rent) from the governments enforcement of planning permission on AirBnBs 12k is the number being discussed

Yeah but those who own the properties are not going to wait till the end of the year and have this decision forced on them and I can see a lot heading for the exit door over the next 6 months. I also believe its fanciful the gov think that the majority of those who own the properties will just rent then after the way the game has been stacked against landlords over the last couple of years I cant see that happening.

Don't see how the dysfunction can be fixed without a huge clear-out of vested interests. And there is no political will on the horizon for the latter.

Probably now at the stage of only being 1 or 2 elections away from a scorched-earth hard left government.

Do we actually know if there was a rush to the door when the renters tax credit was brought in or is that an assumption? It's a logical assumption, but an assumption nonetheless. I don't remember reading anything about it anywhere but I may have missed something.

Anecdotally, folks I know who are in dubious cash only rental situations are all still in said dubious cash only rental situations, nobody was turfed out and nothing was sold up.

I disagree, I expect it to be enforced like speeding, some unlucky ones will get caught, the vast majority will not. You are currently required to have planning for short lets, and yet there have been virtually no applications. Also, as long as there is a shortage of hotel rooms, local councils will know that short lets will be essential for tourism/local businesses.

This is all just playing a tune for the audience.

There is more to it than that. There as an article a few months ago where a Dublin CoCo supervisor outlined what would be involved in getting a prosecution, I’m sure the article is linked earlier in this thread. Council staff, two, have to observe short let tenants actually in the property, they must also confirm that it is the property owner who is short letting without planning rather than a tenant. The new legislation places a responsibility on sites like Airbnb to ensure planning is in place, but it is easy to find shortlets on other platforms not as compliant as Airbnb.

The existing legislation on short-lets make absolutely no difference, neither will the new legislation. The fines are equivalent to a couple of weeks rental.

Wow it’s incredible how the legal system has us tied up in knots where a simple check cannot be practically done.

Here is how I would conduct these checks:

1. Do you pay LPT?

If so, please furnish your declaration of earnings from revenue that you have not received any funds from Airbnb.

If you have received funds from Airbnb, please find attached:

• Antisocial usage of property charge.

Airbnb automatically forward all income gained from the site by each Host to Revenue, so they already have that information.

Airbnb is only one platform, others sites such as Facebook, Bookings.com and the myriad of other sites you can book shortlets on, do not have that agreement with Revenue as the guest has the option of paying directly/in cash rather than through the site.

LPT is paid by the property owner, a tenant who uses Airbnb for income would not be required to make such a declaration.

Up until we see the new Legislation, advertising alone is not proof that the Host actually had short let guests anymore than having a fast car is proof that you broke the speed limit. So at present, the LA have to actually catch the Host in the act of hosting guests for a short duration.

The Dublin CoCo guy, said new staff would have to be hired and trained, plus given transport etc, so my money is on this being like the speed campaigns (sorry for using the same analogy again), there will be a few prosecutions occasionally, then they will accept that short let’s bring much needed visitors/money to areas where there are no available hotel rooms.

I know people working in the CoCo in my area, they are hugely understaffed, I’m not sure where the personnel are going to come from if other departments are already crying out for staff.

Exactly. Unless the LA staff are fluting about & scratching their proverbials all day, where are they going to find the time to complete all of these additional tasks?

It feels very much like a govt lip service policy that has not been thought through, costed or funded.

Exactly, considering staff cannot be in more than one place at once, they are either going to have to take on a huge volume of staff to enforce this, or have a few staff sitting in a car outside a suspected short let for days waiting for a guest to turn up. Then they have to hope that the guest will answer the questions asked and confirm that they are shortlet guests.

They can start quickly by looking at their own staff

https://www.ontheditch.com/dublin-city-council-architect/

What? Do you have any insight into this beyond “polluter pays”?

Airbnb accept bookings and payments, deduct their fee and then pay the host. Sites like bookings.com, Facebook, and the many other sites when you google “holiday let’s Ireland” are just advertising sites, facilitators, they may not have records of bookings and do not process payments, so cannot forward income information or even confirm that a guest stayed there.

And yes, the “silly nonsense” , otherwise known as evidence of wrongdoing, is necessary if a prosecution is to succeed.

The vast majority of guests who have stayed in my Airbnb have been Irish, families or friends away for short stays who want to share a property rather than a hotel, and want to be able to self cater.

There is nothing inherently anti social about that. As I said, there is no doubt that some people do experience noise disruption, but to say all guests cause it is ill informed.