Russia - threadbanned users in OP

this for sure,since the start of this war look what they have done with more or less duct tape and a pair of vice grips,ok an exaggeration but you get my drift..

Ukrainian identity has been forged & hardened through turmoil. They include many proud and patriotic people who will return both for family reasons but also to help rebuild their state. That's what you or I would do, wouldn't we???

First they need to drive the Russians back off their territory to pre 2014 borders. And maybe we'll take a leaf out of other European states and start cracking down on resident Russians here.

I think you may be underestimating the opportunities the rebuilding of a post-war nation offers it's citizens. Many fortunes were made in the reconstruction of Europe post WW2 and the ranks of the middle classes swelled. There's billions in aid already pledged for the reconstruction of Ukraine and I'm sure Ukrainians will want to ensure as much of that money stays in Ukraine as possible.

Unfortunately a swelling of a middle class will be far less likely in today's world. People will make fortunes but they won't be the ones getting their hands dirty.

I find it interesting that your posts have gone from being dismissive of Ukraine's potential to regain land and win the war, to today starting to question how many Ukrainian refugees will go back home should they win.

It certainly tells the direction things appear to be going in the last 24-48 hours that most are anticipating a Ukrainian counter-offensive soon and with that the retaking of a significant portion of land.

When they drive the Russians back to the sea you can quote this post and say "I told you so"

Until then I wont hold my breath

Far more likely to see a situation similar to post WW2 germany increasingly reliant in imported labour (mostly Turkish) to rebuild the country and prop up the population.

If EU membership and a huge inflow of funds to the Baltic States couldnt reverse their population decline due to emigration, I cant see how Ukraine could reverse such a drastic outflow of people for the promise of hard graft rebuilding your country. Its a nice ideal that peoples patriotism and duty and sense of home would draw them back, but if they have leave to remain & work in higher paying western nations, why would you leave?

One of my wife's colleagues husband, who has been living in Ireland for almost 2 decades just moved back to Ukraine. Her parents who fled here in the early days of the war have just returned.

Ironically, in trying to eradicate Ukraine, Putin's Russia have done the exact opposite: they've engendered the Ukrainians with a level of patriotism most countries haven't seen since the second world war.

I'm sure some of the refugees may stay, particularly war widows and their children but the Ukrainians are a hard-working and well-educated people, those that stay will be of benefit to the countries they come to call home. (Interestingly, those I know who visited Ukraine before the war describe it as being quite similar to Ireland just before the Celtic Tiger. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Ukrainian economy become a Slavic Tiger off the back of the rebuilding program).

There were roughly 15 million German men removed from the workforce post-ww2 (5 million dead, 10 million pow). You're surely not comparing the recovery of Germany after a world war, split east & west, population decimated and facing economic sanctions, to that of Ukraine who's population and infrastructure losses aren't even close to comparable?

Are you just throwing things out arguing for argument sake or what?

The point I took from the article that the poor father and daughter are in a minority. All the apparatus of the state is focused on indoctrinating school kids and stamping out what little dissent there is. Future looks bleak when impressionable kids are brain washed

I see Medvedev threatening nuclear weapons against Ukraine if they retake Crimea,

Retake suggests that they are afraid it's actually happening.

Crimea 2023 is on

I think you're right there. Mrs Sleepy has already decided that whenever Ukraine is ready to host tourists again, we're going. I get no say in the matter! 🤣

Came across this on Twitter today, incredibly prescient considering it's from 2014:

I remember visiting a museum in Canberra about 15 years ago. There was a wing devoted to the ANZAC and I remember reading something in there that I found very interesting that stuck with me. When WW1 happened Australia was still a relatively new country. The modern Federation, as we know it today, was only formed in 1901 (which is also when the flag was chosen). Up until then it had been a loose collection of former colonies with the transportation of convicts only ending in 1868.

It wasn't until WW1 and specifically the disaster that was Gallipolli that was, in many Australian's eyes, the true baptism of Australia as a real country. 7.5 thousand Australians died and another 18 thousand were wounded there. Every year thousands of Australians visit Gallipolli and ANZAC day is a national holiday. The blood sacrifice by those men has become part of the founding story of that country and inspires Australians to this day.

I truly believe that this war will serve the same purpose for Ukraine.