FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442

breakemall · 18-03-2023 12:52pm

I cannot help but smile when I read that the FEC was consulting with the PSNI on firearms issues.

While I stand open to correction, but based on what I hear their licensing process has been deemed unfit for purpose by the PSNI hierarchy themselves and classified as "critical"?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-62307748

garrettod · 19-03-2023 12:24pm

There's a report on RTE that FF's popularity has dropped to 20%, so they won't want to risk losing further votes, not alone have all of us actively lobbying against them.

Good leverage for us to use!

Gumbo · 19-03-2023 2:48pm

Sent out to the following;

roisin.shortall@oireachtas.ie
paul.mcauliffe@oireachtas.ie
dessie.ellis@oireachtas.ie

A cháirde,

I write this letter in solidarity with all Country Sports Groups and Associations, Hunting, Fishing, Coursing, Horse and Hound, Equine, Target and Clay Shooting, Vermin Control, Game Keeping, Angling and Rural Ireland.

I ask if you can call for an immediate representative voice at the table of the FEC from our Unified Organisation, Firearms Users Representatives Group, "FURG" and a voice at any further committee established to address country sports or activities in the future.

It is very worrying that legislative changes are underway, overseen by Junior Minister, James Brown, TD for the Wexford Area without a voice from the Members and Associations that will be impacted by any decision made.

Why is the Group allowed to operate under cover and without any input from the Groups affected?

They refuse to meet with any of the Official Groups and one has to now question the appointment of this 5 person Firearms Expert Committee (FEC) and how they were chosen.

I look forward to your response.

Regards

otmmyboy2 · 19-03-2023 5:55pm

Contacted all of my district TDs too.

Never made a difference in the past but can't hurt.

Gumbo · 19-03-2023 7:07pm

One response already. FF guy.

Stated he will make inquiries.

jb88 · 22-03-2023 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331780#Comment_120331780

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331804#Comment_120331804

Its the govt and particularly the ministers you need to blame for this problem, not me. The govt, proposed this, backed by lack of knowledge or awareness. Its the government who will vote it into law, not me.

Write to them, tell them your not voting for them and actively campaigning against them and will urge all your fellow shooters to do the same.

Thats a big issue with this forum, fingerpointing at the wrong people.

Blame yourselves. No Blame your govt and do something about it come election time, as an individual campaign against the current govt. Vote them out of office and out of a job. Thats what I will be doing.

Cass · 22-03-2023 1:50pm

Jb88 - Its the govt and particularly the ministers you need to blame for this problem, not me

I'm not blaming you for the mess we are in, that lies mostly at the feet of the self appointed representative group(s) that without being solicited went to the Minister and offered up large parts of sports they had no right to, no interest in, all to try and save their own little slice. Offers the Minister was only too glad to grab with both hands.

Jb88 - Thats a big issue with this forum, fingerpointing at the wrong people

That is not a forum issue, that is a you issue. At least have the honesty to call me out directly instead of blaming the forum as a whole.

My post was a reminder to you of the dangerous rhetoric and at times utter nonsense posted by you over the past years. Such as how no such ban would be forthcoming, telling lads to go out and buy these rifles knowing they could possibly lose them, all without warning them of the possible (now actual) consequences, then criticising and bemoaning anyone who offered such a caveat to potential buyers, and then your self aggrandising posts about how you stopped this "non existent" ban with the aid of a couple of others.

So either it was lies on your behalf or you were lied to and decided to preemptively seek adoration for your supposed actions. It's reckless either way, but to claim something as fact that you could not and WOULD NOT verify was wrong and as such your recent comments about how people should act, what they should do, and who needs to know what hold next to no meaning or weight.

There is an old saying, which I'm probably slightly bastardising, but it seems apt:

"Better to be thought of as a fool,, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

Anyone can make a mistake or get things wrong so I wouldn't look for, nor demand, perfection, but there is a difference between genuine mistakes and seemingly purposeful deception. Only you know which is the case with you as you have repeatedly refused to give any information over the years regarding your own claims. So enough of the pity party and "shock" that someone would call you out for your past, documented, actions.

TheEngineer1 · 22-03-2023 2:19pm

One of my TDs got back to me this morning with a reply from the minister to the following question;

"To ask the Minister for Justice if he will clarify the current restrictions which apply to the holder of firearms; if it is intended to amend these regulations; the timeframe when same will be introduced; and if he will make a statement on the matter."

The answer received was;

"As the Deputy will know, Irish law has strict controls governing the issuing of firearm certificates by An Garda Síochána and stringent conditions on the holding of firearms. Since the commencement of the Firearms Act 1925, any person in possession of a firearm must be in possession of a firearms certificate for that firearm.

Every application for a firearm certificate is considered on its individual merits and an application cannot be granted unless certain conditions, set out in section 4 of the Firearms Act 1925 , are met. These include, amongst others, that the person can be permitted to possess a firearm without danger to public safety and that the person has a good reason for requiring the firearm.

New conditions applying to the grant of a firearm certificate were introduced under the Criminal Justice Act 2006. These conditions include the requirement of applicants to provide two referees to attest to their character, and also a requirement on each applicant to provide written consent for an issuing officer to make any enquiries in relation to the applicant’s medical history from a health professional.

It should also be noted that section 5 of the Firearms Act 1925 provides a number of reasons for revoking a firearm certificate. These include circumstances in which the holder has no good reason to have the firearm, poses a danger to public safety or security, is using the firearm for an unauthorised purpose or has not complied with conditions attached to the granting of the certificate. Each decision to grant or revoke a firearm certificate is individually considered.

Firearms legislation is kept under ongoing review and there are no immediate plans to amend these provisions.

I can advise the Deputy, that I established a Firearms Expert Committee with representation from stakeholders, my Department and An Garda Síochána. This Committee’s work is ongoing and its terms of reference include examination of the conditions under which firearms certificates are issued. As the Committee has not yet submitted its reports, it would not be appropriate to pre-empt any of its recommendations. In any case, the role of the Committee is to make recommendations to me for subsequent consideration. Any policy decisions arising from any of the recommendations would of course be subject to prior consultation with stakeholders."

I have asked him to ask the Minister to clarify which Sports Shooting organisations or Hunting & Conservation organisations are represented by the stakeholders mentioned as being on the FEC in the statement provided.

I thought the minister had said that he wouldn't be engaging with FURG or any other shooting organisation? (I stand corrected on this)

Cass · 22-03-2023 2:29pm

That last part;

"Any policy decisions arising from any of the recommendations would of course be subject to prior consultation with stakeholders"

Would imply that while the FEC will not accept input from any person or group that once their report is finalised groups/associations would be consulted if any policy (legislative) changes are being considered as a result.

Not much but perhaps a glimmer of hope that we'll get a voice. My concern would be that by the time it gets to that point that the Minister, while talking to stakeholders, will stick rigidly to the report of the FEC.

judestynes · 22-03-2023 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375373#Comment_120375373

All about them when it comes to a photo op though aren't they?

BSA International · 22-03-2023 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387251#Comment_120387251

All there is left to say to you is I can't get a moderator for a 22 and can't get more than 200 rounds on a licence due to the eircode lottery with Supers. This is affecting more than a few lads with s/a rifles ! Not any shouting & screaming out there over my/their situation/s & you expect me to fight your corner?

otmmyboy2 · 22-03-2023 4:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387993#Comment_120387993

I'm well aware of the eircode lottery(exceedingly harsh super and chief in my district), but the point here should be that any further intrusion into firearms law is unnecessary and should be fought by all gun owners, regardless of their particular interests.

Otherwise the PTB will do the usual and continue dividing and conquering little areas until there is nought left.

So regardless of my lack of interest in some aspects of shooting I am perfectly happy to throw my lot behind whoever is standing up and saying no more, because while today it might not be your firearms or disciplines one day it will be.

As it stands the new legislation is directly affecting a number of SACF owners, in terms of revoking licences. Once they are gone that is just another segment of shooters who aren't going to be bothered getting up in arms when the next round of legislative cuts come down the line.

At this stage it needs to be everyone for everything, or firearms in this country will continue the steady decline that only caring for ones own fiefdoms has seen us progress down.

otmmyboy2 · 22-03-2023 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387529#Comment_120387529

Nice one, still 0 for 5 for my district.

Not surprised though, all very comfy in their seats and a very stagnant and apolitical shooting scene.

BattleCorp · 22-03-2023 5:26pm

I'm one of those who is actively lobbying TDs over the semi-auto ban and other changes. I keep getting the standard 'fcuk off' answer posted above. They are reading from a script. Lobbying on my own, I full well know I'm wasting my time because politicians don't give a fcuk about individual gun owners because we don't group together.

BattleCorp lobbying in Constituency X = Politicians don't give a fcuk as it's only a couple of votes.

BattleCorp lobbying in Constituency X with the backing of one small club = Politicians don't give a fcuk as it's only maybe 100 votes.

BattleCorp lobbying in Constituency X with backing of NARGC, NARSPC, IFA, and every other organisation that use a gun = Between 100k and 400k votes, you can bet your life that they'd pay attention.

Until such time as all shooting organisations cop the fcuk on and form one big lobbying group and agree to fight everything that will negatively affect our sport/hobby/way of life, we'll continue to get screwed by the powers that be.

If you don't have a semi-auto, fight for the guys to keep their semi-auto. If you don't have a shotgun, fight for the guys to keep their shotgun etc. If you don't hunt, fight for the guys who hunt. That's the only way we have a chance at keeping our way of life.

It would be great to have the backing of a unified group representing over 100,000 members and then be able to go to James Browne in Wexford and say "If you bring in this semi-auto legislation, you are gone. We've more than enough members to vote you out". You can be sure he'd be reconsidering his position.

And then follow that tactic for every piece of legislation that will screw over gun owners.

If FUNI, FURG and many of the other organisations can get together and actively lobby as one group, I'd be the first to sign up to it.

jb88 · 22-03-2023 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387411#Comment_120387411

I am not a mindreader, and my information was valid up until an ill advised minister decided to propose this legislation. still not enacted, so you cant point any fingers at me yet.

As ive stated many times before, if more people got off their keyboard and met their TD's and senators and spoke to them about these issues then changes can yet be made.

Plenty of glass half empty around here and not enough glass half full

Cass · 22-03-2023 6:31pm

That is the most nonsensical, incoherent, self pitying, crap you've spouted and given your past that is saying something.

Mind-reader? You outright said the ban wasn't happening due, completely, to work you carried out, or alleged to have done.

Francis Fitz made the announcement back in 2015 of her intention to enact legislation in the future so you don't need to be a mindreader, just a reader. Of her statement.

If that was not enough then how about the Garda Commissioners reiteration of a future ban in his updating of the guidelines in 2018. Or perhaps McEntee 's committment to it in 2020?

You're not getting the "at-a boy'" you think you deserve for non existent work and so take to blaming the forum and it's members for your shortcomings and imaginations.

There are no participation trophies here so jog on with that nonsense.

jb88 · 24-03-2023 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387411#Comment_120387411

This forum needs new strategy, new thinking and not a one sided approach, use it as a position of power to gather support. Dont compare me to other bad experiences with groups or organisations in the past. Ive always known what I was lobbying for and ive done it in good faith

Also nothing has happened yet, these proposals can still be changed with individuals speaking directly to their TDs and voicing their concerns.

And more than anyone else, ive the most to lose, financially and sporting wise, but Im prepared for that and anyone ive given advice to knows the consequences. But I cannot factor in unintended consequences and stupid politicians.

If this legislation is enacted -

This is a career ender for these guys.

The Minister for Justice, wont be re elected and wont be in the Seanad is my goal in the next 2 years. (He/She/Them can listen) or stand idly by thinking it wont affect them, it will. 18,000 plus firearms holders in Wicklow who vote are going to determine that, and or the voters of Meath if the minister returns. I intend to visit every club in the county and discuss it with them. Ive got the backing of the NARGC to do this.

The Minister of State, wont be re elected or be in the Seanad after the next General election. (I think thats a done deal already) Judging by what other concerned and well though of citizens in Wexford are proposing.

I intend to spend every waking spare hour I can in Wexford campaigning against the minister, (I hope one or two of you may join me)

That employees in the Dept of Justice and other outside influencers need be put out to pasture, for attacking law abiding clitzens and in some ways comparing us to criminals, and making themselves out to be mind readers.

Reform is needed, but banning something is not the option, it hasnt worked in any developed democracy. Criminals always won that debate, just look at the UK for fireams control. Semi auto CF pistols and rifles are banned there, but how may are killed by them every year?

The Irish Justice dept should look at the effects of prohibition in the US and more recently the "War on Drugs", if the most powerful country in the world couldnt control those two items, it shows how baseless the proposed laws on banning 40 firearms are. (Waste of time)

The Dept of justice never wanted to listen, and used that consultative panel set up by the Minister of State to smokescreen and justify all of these changes, which negatively affect sports people. (They could have looked at stricter checks, no of years competitively shooting before target shooters can apply, etc, etc. they didnt) There are a whole raft of measures the justice dept should have gone through, but they didnt. (They didnt listen so why should we)

Lobby and vote them out in all areas, thats what a strong democracy does, not a weak one. (Be stronger)

Until the legislation is enacted, you need to reserve judgement on if I have failed or not, thats not helping.

Castigating people at every turn seems to be the order of the day on this forum.

You want to stop this, Lobby, but dont blame others for trying to protect their sport, just because lads from boards are not involved. (Futile)

Oh wait you have stuff pre 2015 and dont care, well wait, its coming and it will be over before you can blink.

Ask your elected officials for answers, at the moment they make the changes.

Let me know if you have sat face to face with the Minister of State or the Minister of Justice. Thats who needs to answer your questions, not their cohorts.

breakemall · 24-03-2023 12:53pm

I have been in contact with TD's, Taoiseach, Tanaiste, Minister, Junior Minister and the FEC.

All bar the last entity responded in one form or another, usually with the same Sir Humphrey response copy and paste. But not all... and those further down the food chain seem to have a better grasp on what the consequences of our getting together can be.

One message I did bring from these exchanges was that this legislation still has a number of hurdles to clear before it comes in to being, all be it that these hurdles are primarily academic unless something happens to raise the bar. The other message was that a lot depends on what sort of "push back" is generated by the shooting community and the national organisations in particular.

Bickering among ourselves will achieve nothing and if people do solo runs, I think so be it as that is better than no runs at all?

Between this proposed legislation and the review of the wild birds directive we have our work cut out for us to remain in existence and operate as we currently do, but nothing tried is nothing gained?

Votes=Election=Power. There are those who seek the latter, but we hold the votes. Using them after the horse has bolted will only be revenge, so surely we need to get it out there what the outcome will be if they open the stable door?

The national bodies need to do the heavy lifting because as individuals, do you really want Joe Public to know what firearms you hold? Perhaps this is what the authorities are banking on?

Grizzly 45 · 24-03-2023 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387993#Comment_120387993

Give us a cal[FUNI]l .We might be able to help you out?

Cass · 24-03-2023 1:05pm

Well your post above started off with the usual nonsense but had a sparkle of honesty to it bu quickly turned into a pity party again.

jb88 - Castigating people at every turn seems to be the order of the day on this forum.

Not people, just you and because you placed yourself above everyone else you positioned yourself ideally for castigation due to your untruths, and false statements.

jb88 - You want to stop this, Lobby, but dont blame others for trying to protect their sport, just because lads from boards are not involved. (Futile)

Boards has never been involved in any meetings or round table discussions. A couple of its members have but the forum is neutral in this regard providing only the platform for like minded people to gather and discuss among themselves possible strategies, what their representative groups are doing, and/or other possibilities.

Seeing as how most groups don't give many, if any, updates regarding anything they are doing and specifically with this issue which they didn't seem to be involved in AT ALL until this forum highlighted the issue, I'd say the forum is an invaluable tool. One you are free to use or not as you deem fit.

You seem intent on blaming this forum for your failures and any criticisms levelled at you because of those failures, yet you use the forum regularly including to come in and boast about your imagined achievements in stopping this ban. So which is it, a problem to you or a useful tool?

I'll finish on this note as I, and others I'm sure, cannot be bothered with this back and forth. I will not allow you to come onto this forum and bad mouth it or the members of it that over the years have brought to light important issues including the actions of a few (such as the so called coalition that started this Trainwreck) as well as actually helping affect change in the real world simply because you were caught out.

So you've a decision to make. Be a useful and constructive contributor to the forum or leave if it bothers you so much.

Choice is yours.

Grizzly 45 · 24-03-2023 1:21pm

FWIW, can I suggest folks you also WRITE a letter the old-fashioned way,on archaic paper with a pen to your local TDs etc?

Emails are grand, but they can be easily scanned, deleted or pushed with keywords into a Spam folder. Letters OTOH have to be opened, read and replied to. Thus eating into time that can or should be spent on ministerial business otherwise by their staff.

Does it work?Yes! Recently in Germany, the SPD virulently anti-gun Nancy Frazier was pushing for a ban again on crossbows, semi-auto rifles, IPSC and anything else she could get her rat claws on. A letter and email campaign hit her,the Green party and the FDP.A coalition of 3 minority parties in the german parliament. The FDP, being somewhat pro-gun folded and their leader stated that the FDP would not support any such anti-gun legislation on a no basis of evidence of such guns being used in any shooting in Germany.Which is true,all of Germany's shootings going back to post 1945 have been with handguns or some sort of chopped shotgun,and one homebuilt flamethrower for a school shooting? in 1964.

Scan and sign 4 letters from any of the templates out there and shove them in 4 envelopes. Surely investing a fiver in supporting your sport isn't going to break the bank with any of us?

Cass · 24-03-2023 1:21pm

@breakemall - Bickering among ourselves will achieve nothing and if people do solo runs, I think so be it as that is better than no runs at all?

This is the problem with people forgetting or not knowing the history of this (I'm speaking in broad terms and not specifically singling you out).

We are in this position because two people, claiming to represent shooting sports, under the banner of a group, submitted secret proposals back in 2015.

It was not the first time it's happened but it is the first time the Minister took notice of the content and acted upon it.

Solo runs are not the way to go as the ideals, goals and expectations of a single person or even group will rarely align with the larger shooting community.

It is far better to present a united front and a single voice. That has also rarely happened but when it did/does we can affect real change.

If this was only about SACF rifles the representative groups would still be sitting on their hands as they have done since 2015, however now that they see that the FEC is expanding its agenda, and seemingly targeting sights among other issues, the groups have started to wake up to the fight that they didnt know or care was going on for the last 8 years.

Normally I'd say too little too late but given the reply above as posted by @TheEngineer1 it seems a door has been opened for representation once the FEC has submitted its final report.

At this stage our representatives can discuss a host of issues. Not just the recommendations of the FEC, sights, etc. but also the FEC itself. How it was formed, why were stakeholders excluded yet outside input from Gardai and outside police forces allowed. The history/background of the members of the FEC and biased nature of it make up.

Then tackle the issues raised by it. It's at this point any campaign by the community must move into a higher gear. The 2% rule will not cut it. It must also be a prolonged campaign and not be allowed to fizzle out otherwise they can simply wait us out. If you catch my meaning.

Cass · 24-03-2023 1:26pm

Just a side note, unrelated to our situation but actually connected overall, this is happening in a lot of countries.

According to Grizzly it's Germany, it's already happened in Canada, America (in some states) are pushing this, and I'm sure it's in more countries we haven't heard about.

Seems a growing issue with global political leaders to strip people of firearms.

Grizzly 45 · 24-03-2023 1:38pm

If FUNI, FURG and many of the other organisations can get together and actively lobby as one group, I'd be the first to sign up to it.

And the irony of this is [1] it existed already once but was sabotaged by bad intent of one now sitting on the FEC.

[2] There is no need to form grand committees and decide who will be um heap big chiefs etc. All it needs is an agreement,that an attack on one segment of the shooting community is an attack on all.[A NATO article 5 so to speak] As quite frankly such a massive organisation in Ireland would be unweildly and become as bloated as the US NRA or the UK BASC.Everyone stays in their own little kingdoms and don't feel threatened by some other petit emperor trying to muscle in on their patch and looks out for their particular disciplines. But once there is a threat or direct attack,reps from all the orgs meet and decide on a policy and response.Simple really. they should then stay meeting be it monthly or quarterly to discuss anything that looks like an upcoming threat and monitor such in the future,as we might as well face it, shooting will be under continuous attack for the future.Be it EU,national,or local level.So maybe its time our orgs recognise this fact,and the common bond of us all is we are gunowners first and whatever discipline a long second back?

clivej · 24-03-2023 1:50pm

Think this might my first input on this thread.

I've nothing to loose if any of this goes thru, no SACF, only one restricted firearm now (had 4 at the same time). Read most of the comments and my conclusion is that your all only farting in the wind. Until the likes of the NARGC and NASRPC get together to fight against this legislation then feck all will happen. Until we have something line the NRA in the US to represent all the shooting community we are only an inconvenience to the government.

Voice your objections to you local TD with threats of not getting your vote, big deal only 1 vote less they won't care. But they will sounds like they are supporting you, but then they have to follow the whip.

"Vote them out" and vote for what other party? There are only 4 main parties to vote for, all with the same agenda to reduce firearm ownership in this country. Same outcome. We will only have airsoft to play with before long.

JB88 l know has been adding a lot of twoddle here, but then again I know he is fighting with whomever he can to voice his objections to this committee. And I know he has a lot to loose if the SACF ban comes thru.

So lads go on with all this bickering cos it will all come to nout until all the bickering comes off the same hymn sheet, from one unanimous voice.

breakemall · 24-03-2023 8:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395500#Comment_120395500

When I say solo run, I mean those who are acting alone but with the intention of helping all. When I was contacting politicos it was on my own bat, but my aim was to help the cause...

kunekunesika · 25-03-2023 12:23am

Contacted 3 local TDs. All government parties. 2 replies in 6hrs, real replies. I made no threats on votes, but I did question the merit of excluding 100,000plus from the democratic process, by having no representative bodies included. I also mentioned the 60000 plus deer we shot for free for the state, and how this could be stopped by some of the discussions the committee are reported to be having. I also questioned the secrecy surrounding the the selection of the 2 shooting members.

The replies so far, seem to get a sense that all isn't quite right with this process. There was also a sense that my urban TDs were feeling it might be worthwhile to listen to there rural constituents.

My green TD, who replied within one hour, explained how he had received quite a few queries on the matter, from other constituency residents.

Hopefully some day light and public accountable will help.

garrettod · 25-03-2023 2:08am

If everyone posing on this thread, put the same level of effort into putting pressure on their local TDs, their various represtative groups, and then getting their friends and families to do the same, we'd be making far more progress, imho.

Vizzy · 25-03-2023 10:02am

I wrote to my 4 TD's and my Senator.

The Senator has replied that he will speak to Minister Harris and make representations.

The FF guy or the Sinn Fein have not replied.

Nor has the Rural Independant guy but I know that he has been rattling a few cages.

The last guy sent me the following reply which is very similar to the one received by The Engineer, further up the thread.

It is a bit "wishy washy" but does mention that there will be further consultation before any new policies are adopted.

"I can confirm that my Department has received correspondence from the organisations referred to and I can advise the Deputies that I have responded accordingly.

It was noted in the published reports that two of the Firearms Expert Committee's (FEC) terms of reference were discussed as agenda items at the committee's sixth and seventh meetings. These were:

To consider whether firearms certificates should be conditioned to specify the locations where the firearm may be used,
To consider whether firearms certificates should be conditioned to limit the use of the firearm to the purpose for which the firearms certificate was sought.

These items were part of the original terms of reference approved by the Minister of State in October 2021 and have been well publicised since the process to establish the FEC commenced.

It is well established in national and EU law (Section 4(2)(a) of the Firearms Act 1925, as amended, and Article 6(1) of the Firearms Directive) that applicants for firearms licences shall have ‘good reason/cause’ for acquiring and possessing a firearm. In addition, Article 6(2) of the Firearms Directive requires that EU Member States have in place monitoring systems to ensure that the conditions of authorisation set by national law are met throughout the duration of the authorisation (i.e. licence) of any firearm.

The two terms of reference cited arise from the question of whether the ‘good reason/cause’ stated in an application for a firearm certificate would continue to be valid if the firearm is used at a location or for a purpose other than those stated when setting out ‘good reason/cause’, and whether this would be compliant with the Firearms Act and Firearms Directive.

As the FEC has not yet submitted its reports, it would not be appropriate to pre-empt any of its recommendations. In any case, the role of the FEC is to make recommendations for subsequent consideration by the Minister of State. Any policy decisions arising from any of the recommendations would of course be subject to prior consultation with stakeholders."

I have since gone back to him to state that I am extremely disappointed that the Minster or Minister of State has not even clarified if he intends to meet with groups representing outdoor pursuits BEFORE the FEC issues recommendations to the Minister, and having read the meeting reports of FEC to date it is quite clear that they are made up of a majority of members who are in favour of further restrictions on firearms licences.

BattleCorp · 25-03-2023 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398901#Comment_120398901

Meaningful consultation is certainly worth having. What we have at the moment is consultation in bad faith. The politicians will say that the FEC is consultation yet it's very stacked against the shooting community. Every vote will be at least 3:2 in favour of the Government. Plus, consultation doesn't mean that they'll change their mind. They can ask us our opinion and then ignore your opinion and do what they planned to do all along.

If we could have meaningful consultation, I'd be in favour of that.

Back to the semi auto ban. In order to get the semi-auto legislation changed, it's either Browne or the Minister that needs to be rattled. Local TDs can support us but the whip system means that they have no choice but to toe the party line. Or we'd need nearly every Government TD being rattled and them all going to the Minister telling them that their jobs could be in trouble unless they back off.

Here's an idea @Grizzly 45. Can the shooting organisations, FUNI, FURG etc, in a hurry, get together and jointly issue an open letter that we could download and bring to our politicians. Something that says how many members they have in total to show how many potential votes are at stake, and that they don't support the current proposals to ban the semi-auto centrefires and that they don't support the FEC? The letter could be worded nicely to say 'they don't support the proposed legislative changes that would negatively impact target shooters'.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442